What drove BG3's success, game mechanics or emotional engagement?

[NecroLord]

Reason why people only hate on teh poz(which is fair enough) is because they didnt play it or quit past act I.

They should've stuck with it to reach romancing the illithid.

Case in point.

Truthfully I did quit somewhere in mid Baldur's Gate city proper. The itemization from what I had experienced in the city was fairly lame, character progression was pretty much over by then thanks to the low level cap, and none of the story really gripped me to persuade seeing it to the end. The companions were all insufferable on a reddit to resetera scale. No amount of competent tactical combat and tentacle sex could make me soldier through even for as reportedly unfinished act 3 was it was just reaching slog territory.

In the original game, the city of Baldur's Gate was divided into districts.
It honestly made it feel really big and I still like how there's all the common folk saying lines like "Me young ones are waiting" and stuff like this. It gave it a certain vibrant quality, further enhanced by the soundtrack.
Honestly, the first two Baldur's Gate games, Icewind Dale and Neverwinter Nights, are the best parts of Forgotten Realms and the only ones I can say I enjoy playing.
Forgotten Realms by itself is really not something I like all that much.
GREYHAWK SUPREMACY!!

 

[Tyranicon]

You just have to wait like 10 - 15 years for people to decide they actually liked it all along.

The year is 2036, Baldur's Gate 4 is heralded as the best RPG in all of existence, featuring full furry hardcore sex scenes. The writing is masterclass - there's only 40 words in the game but they're really good words. The AI voice actors/sex dolls? Perfectly pleasing in everyway, especially if you purchase the add-on fleshlight bundle that perfectly emulates zombie Jaheira's pussy.

Meanwhile, Codex looks back on BG3 with some nostalgia.

 

[agris]

delivers what rpgs have been promising for decades. Its the rpg closest to the tabletop experience

Yeah, this is pretty much it

have either of you ever played tabletop?

 

[Hellraiser]

You just have to wait like 10 - 15 years for people to decide they actually liked it all along.

While in general I do agree with your point regarding revisionism* (and I guess nostalgia due to ever progressing eternal decline), the easier/simpler explanation for what happened here on the codex is that the codex has seen a significant change in the userbase over nearly 20 years. In particular we have seen to some degree an influx of disgruntled bioware (remember the END OF RINE days?) and bethesda fans which replaced the original BI/Troika "codex hivemind" that just moved on (sometimes to the great beyond, sometimes to tranny porn....). This also applies to the staff itself, as visible by Infinitron's join date and how the site (front page content, but not just that) changed with him taking on a bigger role in the post-VD era.

*not a codex example directly, but I remember a thread from NMA regarding Bloodlines from when it released mostly complaining how crap it was, quite funny in hindsight, but also understandable due to how buggy and fucking awful it ran on hardware back then in addition to some issues that never were fixed (janky combat or it in general being an ARPG etc.). Man, it loaded maps for like 2 minutes at least on my old Duron 900 MHz , and those loading screens were every fucking where. Must have spent more time staring at them than actually playing.

 

[jackofshadows]

In the original game, the city of Baldur's Gate was divided into districts.
It honestly made it feel really big

Maybe, just maybe you should stop talking about things you don't know. BG3 technically has only 2 districts but the city "feels" like 10 times bigger.

As for the topic, yeah first and foremost it's just a really good RPG all around, just not for everyone's taste around here. And I don't blame them, there's no small amount of modern shite starting with the setting itself which has gotten much worse even since the times of BG1-2.

By the way, to all the people who continue to refer to the bear sex and other nonsense: yes, as a market trick it's worked but if I was an actual shipper or whatever I'd be massively disappointed with BG3. It's not a game about that at all. That shit is sprinkled over it somewhat but even thinner than it was as with the Dragon Age series.

 

[luj1]

You just have to wait like 10 - 15 years for people to decide they actually liked it all along.

The year is 2036, Baldur's Gate 4 is heralded as the best RPG in all of existence, featuring full furry hardcore sex scenes. The writing is masterclass - there's only 40 words in the game but they're really good words. The AI voice actors/sex dolls? Perfectly pleasing in everyway, especially if you purchase the add-on fleshlight bundle that perfectly emulates zombie Jaheira's pussy.

Meanwhile, Codex looks back on BG3 with some nostalgia.

View attachment 47977

Thats called lowering the bar

 

[TedNugent]

On the topic of the genitalia thing: I'm actually of the mind that didn't help things. In the process of playing tgrough BG3 with my normie friends, an IMMEDIATE predicament that came up was the flagrantly uncensored genital options. These are not prudish people, they're bog-standard Neoliberals who parrot whatever MSNBC tells them, but when confronted with full-frontal nudity they got squamish.

Quite fascinating really, figured they were better than that.

At least you can ask them whether they are cut or uncut.

side from that though I get the feeling that the genitalia selection is less to do with getting people aroused (because is anyone aroused by seeing a few badly-modeled flaccid genitals stuck onto a model of a character wearing a blank expression? it looks like something out of a medical textbook) and more about a quick and easy way to get people to call the game "trans-inclusive" or w/e

Yeah, that was what I was getting at with the golf clapping from X crowd comment

You cannot get much more explicit than literally having a character that is "FEMALE!!" with an explicitly modeled "GENITAL A" with a pubic hair patch and a flaccid cock.

It is as affirmative of trans ideology as you can get.

 

[Serious_Business]

a certain vibrant quality

A certain vibrant quality? Are you talking about a game or perhaps perfume or wine? I guess the guy ranting off about the decline of quality in posters was shut down with the little rating system (which is really the root of the true decline, at least as far as forming coherent sentences is concerned), but I agree his overall point. Saying you like this and dislike that is useless and waxing lyrical on the case is also worthless. We all know that the game and Larian is being blasted sorely on the fact of their mainstream success with casuals that have little to no crpg culture (if there is such a thing at this point). The success is obviously due to presentation and accessibility. That in itself is boring. The thing is, the criteria for these two things have changed a little. We're no longer in Bioware-movie territory as far as mainstream games go, as mentionned elsewhere. In other words, movies are not an ideal for games anymore. That's a kind of maturation for the medium, I guess. I mean fuck it, this is a turned-based game. If you don't see the change at stake here, you were just too young to remember how much everyone craved turned-based gameplay 20 years ago. It is what it is. I'm not saying turned-based is inherently good, but fuck you. I'm trying to be helpful here. Take that, you shite. Take the help right up your ass

 

[luj1]

We all know that the game and Larian are being blasted sorely on the fact of their mainstream success with casuals that have little to no cRPG culture. The success is obviously due to presentation and accessibility.

Infinitron

 

[DemonKing]

I've heard even normie girls at work in the lunchroom talk about their multiple playthroughs of BG3, so it's definitely resonated beyond the core audience for this kind of game.

If I had to put a finger on it I'd say they probably most enjoy "connecting" with the joinable NPCs and the fact they can romance anyone they want. Couple that with relatively light on CRPG mechanics and extremely high production values (motion capture, voiced dialog, cutscenes etc) then it's no surprise it's a winner with non-gamers.

 

[Lemming42]

relatively light on CRPG mechanics

I'm still not sure where this idea comes from; I think it beats a great many other games when it comes to cRPG systems, especially more recent ones. I wouldn't say that BG3 comes up lacking when compared to, for example, Wasteland 2/3 or the new Shadowrun games or D:OS, let alone action-oriented stuff like TES games or Fo3/NV/Fo4 or The Outer Worlds.

Part of what made the game's success so exciting for me is that it's demonstrated that the wider public are capable of grasping and really enjoying turn-based cRPGs as long as the mechanics are presented in an intuitive way. It's not even a case of people putting up with gameplay they find unappealing for the sake of the story (eg Dragon Age), I've seen people at work who normally don't play games enthusiastically talking about their ideas for builds and shit.

 

[mondblut]

Memes.

 

[mondblut]

I've heard even normie girls at work in the lunchroom talk about their multiple playthroughs of BG3, so it's definitely resonated beyond the core audience for this kind of game.

It made it to South Park, ffs. Played by a negro thot, of all people. The last game South Park has acknowledged as a cultural phenomena was what, RDR2?

 

[Grauken]

Lmao, another thread where you guys cannot stop talking aboug BG3

 

[BruceVC]

Its because its eygood fucking rpg that delivers what rpgs have been promising for decades. Its the rpg closest to the tabletop experience in a time where dnd podcasts are a thing normies watch.

Yeah, marketing helped, but if you dont deliver you will get backlash, your reputation will sink, and your next release sales will suffer, weve seen that countless times before. As things are, next Larian release will be huge.

Watching the codex struggle with this game has been both hilarious and sad, because it shows you that a large majority of the site has been taken over by absolute shit tasters and bottom tier cretins.

You find them in poe 1 and 2 threads, you find them in AoD and CS threads, you find them everywhere, polluting the forums with their atrocious, baseless opinion they wont even bother to defend, theyll just rate your post and retreat.

Good to read this type of well informed and positive post about BG3 from someone who has actually played the game

We dont get enough of opinions from people who have actually read a book, watched a movie or played a game and then comment

There is far too much " I havent played BG3 but I dont like it because of degeneracy and a 2 minute optional bear sex scene " which I encourage people to not take seriously

There was a time about 10-15 years ago when people would only have an opinion when they had experienced something, we should all try to practice that because then at least your opinion is informed whether you like a game or not. Its based on something substantive and something you can debate

 

[NaturallyCarnivorousSheep]

There's an obvious part of the name recognition(d&d is bigger than in the past and they've released the game shortly after somewhat successful movie about it), part marketing, part of it is also tapping into starved biodrones - their last fantasy experience was in 2014 after all.

The problem is that a lot of people on codex don't realise how much of a normie average normie is. Even when BG1 was made part of the reason why it was real time was to distance it from "boring" turn based games and the development of that started in like 1994 or something like that - I forgot who said it, but I saw a good summary of it that went like "RTwP is there so the 10 years old doesn't get frustrated during the first 10 minutes of the game". To convince this crowd to not recoil at having the level of abstraction tb implies you have to make it good and it's obvious that gameplay wise it's an evolution of DOS games, iirc some modder even found that physical/magical armour is still in the code. So part of the reason why it was successful is the gameplay.

There are also other ways in which BG3 builds up on DOS that isn't design or technology related but rather financial.
Think of the cutscenes - this stuff cost money, a fuckload of money. How did they get this money? We more or less know how larian operates - Swen takes massive investment loans, mortgages etc. the studio works on the game until it's almost broke, Swen hopes he gets enough money to at least pay that off(this is why after Div2 they had to make educational games btw - to avoid going bankrupt). However the banks and investors don't just give you unlimited money, they have risk estimations, consult market analytics about it etc. etc. The repeated success of DOS games influenced the amount of money he got from them which allowed the production values to be there.

 

[GamerCat_]

The explanation for any success of this scale is memes. The average person is really stunningly stupid. They will say things like that Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3 held the same appeal to them. They don't know what they're doing. Language is like lego to them. They pick up things they hear and stack them together. Like more clever parrots.

The game's innate appeal we can only appraise looking at people who are still there now. This game's sheer numbers are owed to a hypewave. And like all hypewaves the answer is marketing and human stupidity. Seeing people act like voices of reason ascribing reason to a mob is so absurd. The people who are still interested now, yes, we can actually look at what the game is to explain why they are still playing. And as others have said, it's why Bioware succeeded in less mob-driven times. It's a trashy overproduced buttfantasy VN for women and D&D Americans.

 

[scytheavatar]

relatively light on CRPG mechanics

I'm still not sure where this idea comes from; I think it beats a great many other games when it comes to cRPG systems, especially more recent ones. I wouldn't say that BG3 comes up lacking when compared to, for example, Wasteland 2/3 or the new Shadowrun games or D:OS, let alone action-oriented stuff like TES games or Fo3/NV/Fo4 or The Outer Worlds.

Part of what made the game's success so exciting for me is that it's demonstrated that the wider public are capable of grasping and really enjoying turn-based cRPGs as long as the mechanics are presented in an intuitive way. It's not even a case of people putting up with gameplay they find unappealing for the sake of the story (eg Dragon Age), I've seen people at work who normally don't play games enthusiastically talking about their ideas for builds and shit.

The star of BG3 and a big reason for its success is 5E. People love to shit 5E and say that there are tons of better TTRPG systems out there, which to me might be true but misses the reasons as to why 5E is so successful. While 4E was an utter failure. Yeah, there exists systems which are crunchier and deeper, also systems which are more rules light and accessible, but how many systems out there are able to hit that balance between accessible and deep as 5E did?

If BG3 was instead a 3.5E game it probably would have done way worse, cause non TTRPG people would have a harder time getting into the game.

 

[Reinhardt]

I'm playing Temple of Elemental Evil and it shits all over BG3 and 5E...
A wonderfully tactical, isometric and prestigious cRPG fit only for gentlemen of class and distinction.

Yes, but... Hommlet.

i like hommlet

 

[BruceVC]

I'm playing Temple of Elemental Evil and it shits all over BG3 and 5E...
A wonderfully tactical, isometric and prestigious cRPG fit only for gentlemen of class and distinction.

Yes, but... Hommlet.

i like hommlet

Its a pity Greyhawk doesnt have the same interest or resources as Forgotten Realms

Its a great fantasy IP, imagine how epic a Queen of the Spiders PC game would be

 

[DemonKing]

imagine how epic a Queen of the Spiders PC game would be

 

[BruceVC]

I

imagine how epic a Queen of the Spiders PC game would be

I appreciate the hot Drow imagery but its not the same narrative as Queen of the Spiders tabletop game

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_the_Spiders

 

[scytheavatar]

I'm playing Temple of Elemental Evil and it shits all over BG3 and 5E...
A wonderfully tactical, isometric and prestigious cRPG fit only for gentlemen of class and distinction.

Yes, but... Hommlet.

i like hommlet

Its a pity Greyhawk doesnt have the same interest or resources as Forgotten Realms

Its a great fantasy IP, imagine how epic a Queen of the Spiders PC game would be

Greyhawk is a setting focused on dungeon crawling and exploring ruins, which means it's hard for it to compete with Gods soap opera. Which is what most people seem to love about D&D.

 

[DemonKing]

I appreciate the hot Drow imagery but its not the same narrative as Queen of the Spiders tabletop game

I know but that was the cover for the collected G1-3/D1-3/Q1 modules back in the day.

I'm not sure if that would make a great computer game though without a lot of modification. ToEE was already hamstrung by constant repetitive waves of bugbears due to a slavish devotion to replicating the PNP module. Imagine the same but with Hill Giants, then Frost Giants, then Fire Giants etc etc

 

[Fedora Master]

imagine how epic a Queen of the Spiders PC game would be

Pools of Darkness
more like
DROOLS of DORKNESS