Dragon Age vs Baldurs Gate 2.

[Talonfire]

And here I thought all I'll get is "WELL DUH, BG doesn't have any roleplaying in the first place"

Seems like Codex is being misguided again though

Saying that the Baldur's Gate games do not have role playing would be absurd even if you hate them with a passion.

 

[oldmanpaco]

OK - I have nothing else to do at work so here goes.

-Deep npc's
Well the DA NPCs talk a lot more. In fact they don’t shut the hell up. In BG2 when an npc spoke it seemed more relevant because it wasn’t a constant event. That being said they are the best npc’s since BG2 and are probably a little better. Morigan seems like Viconia light though and they desperately could use an Edwin type character.

DA - but not by much.

-Rich characterization
Well DA has some interesting codex entries and the setting grows on you after a while. BG2 has a deeper sense of time though. When you hit some of the dungeons/temples it feels like you are walking in places that have been there for years.

Push

-Innovative quests
This is tricky. In BG2 all of Chapter 2 is one sidequest after another. All the stronghold quests, Trademeat, Windspear, and Umar Hills were optional and well done. But if you move past Chapter 2 BG2 is fairly linear.

So far (and I haven’t completed DA yet) the sidequests in DA are nothing compared to BG2. DA has a few good sidequest mixed in with some rather crappy ‘Go here and kill/deliver/pickup/talk/gather’ quests. But the main quests seem to be more open ended and less linear.

Sidequests: BG2 by a mile.
Main Quest: DA
Overall: Push – but again I’m not done yet.

-Expansive storyline.
BG2 feels more intense. Maybe because you’re saving yourself so it’s more personal.

BG2

-Large number of magic items, each with a unique history
DA has something like 25 codex spots for item descriptions. These descriptions are longer than BG2 ones. BG2 had more descriptions but also less detail and the fact that there are many more item descriptions dilute the uniqueness of the items. There also seems to be less overpowered items like Crom Faeyr.

Push

-Strategic and challenging combats
DA is harder out of the box. But this could be because the game mechanics are not really described in detail. Everyone knows what bonuses spells and armor give in BG2 and if you’re not sure it was described in detail in the manual. Mods can make BG2 much, much harder though.

DA wins.

-Drew from a vast bestiary of creatures as foes.
I’m something like 60% through the story and have unlocked all 33 codex entries for DA creatures. Now there are variants for most categories (Dragons, Drakes, Dragonlings all are in the dragon entry) that I’m sure I haven’t seen yet but it feels like there should be more diversity. Of course this is a problem with all modern RPGs.

BG2 wins.

Overall it’s something of a push. DA is much, much better than anything Bio has put out the last 10 years and probably the best RPG I have played since BG2.
But I still play BG2 10 years after its release; I doubt I will do the same with DA.

Thank you for reading this wall of text.

 

[Raapys]

Well, I pretty much put my DA game on hold as I was nearing the end. It just became so boring, even though I initially liked the game. Not having much else to do at the time, I fired up BG2 for another sorcerer solo playthrough, and it's without a doubt a better and more fun experience than DA, even though I've played through it a dozen times before.

Then again, I've always had a preference for mage classes, and BG2 does that part far better than any other game.

 

[Mareus]

"Deep npc's"

DA wins
----------------------
I don't agree. Writing in BG is much better and the characters are much more interesting and original, while in Dragon Age they seem pretty generic.


"-Rich characterization"

DA wins
----------------------
I disagree again. While there is certainly more dialogues between the characters in DA, it's mostly some filler content which is pretty generic. Each character in BG has unique history unlike anything I have seen or heard before. I mean just compare Aerie's wings being cut off, or Viconia's survival on the surface, or Keldron's story,... things like that?


"-Innovative quests"

DA wins
----------------------
Nope. Quests in DA are often less complicated than those in BG saga. Yes, there are some great quests, but there is also bunch of filler quests like bring a letter to 3 people... Then again so it is in BG, but far less than in DA. BG again for me.


"-Expansive storyline."

Draw (though BG2's is slightly better)
-----------------------
I liked the story in BG more too. I mean, playing a child of a dead God?... You cant beat that!


"-Large number of magic items, each with a unique history"

Draw (slight edge to DA, though)
-----------------------
In BG you have way more spells and way more items. And I couldn't find any item descriptions in DA. Did i miss them somehow? R click gives you a wheel with equip, eyes and destroy. When I use eyes on the item all I get is short description?? I have no idea what you are talking about. I haven't checked the codex entries though, so I might have missed it there, but I would classify this as bad design, since it is more practical to see item descriptions by examining the item instead of checking the codex each time you receive an item.

"-Strategic and challenging combats"

DA
----------------------------
I don't agree. DA has only 3 classes and 3 races with 4 subclasses to each class. BG has (i don't remember exactly) 6-8 races and loads of classes and subclasses. In DA you can bring only 4 characters in your party while in BG you can have a party of 6. Not to mention how 2d camera is better suited for tactical gameplay. BG pure win here.


"-Drew from a vast bestiary of creatures as foes."

BG2 (but it helps drawing for a system that had 2 decades of existence to draw from...)
----------------------------
BG saga has much larger base of creatures and lore to chose from, since the world has been created for decades like you noticed.

BG saga wins for me on all accounts. Not to mention awsome music in BG and better puzzles. Sorry. But DA is by far the best RPG published by Bioware right after BG saga and I appreciate their effort which I will certainly support with my money.

 

[oldmanpaco]

-Strategic and challenging combats"

DA
----------------------------
I don't agree. DA has only 3 classes and 3 races with 4 subclasses to each class. BG has (i don't remember exactly) 6-8 races and loads of classes and subclasses. In DA you can bring only 4 characters in your party while in BG you can have a party of 6. Not to mention how 2d camera is better suited for tactical gameplay. BG pure win here.

All that is true but I never die in vanilla BG2 on core difficulty. You can die pretty easily in DA on hard (which seems to be the equivalent of core) difficulty. Combat isn't necessarily better just a little more challenging.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

And here I thought all I'll get is "WELL DUH, BG doesn't have any roleplaying in the first place"

Seems like Codex is being misguided again though

Saying that the Baldur's Gate games do not have role playing would be absurd even if you hate them with a passion.

The trick is

I like them

But seriously, what fucking roleplaying do you have in BG? Your stats don't fucking matter. Your class doesn't matter. Your alignment doesn't matter. Your skills are all combat-related. Dialogues are not about choice, but about pushing the story forward, and often don't even have FAKE choices, much less meaningful ones.

BG is advertised as "RPG" but it's no less of a dungeon crawler than IWD.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Baldurs Gate 2 was revolutionary for its:

-Deep npc's
-Rich characterization
-Innovative quests
-Expansive storyline.
-Large number of magic items, each with a unique history
-Strategic and challenging combats
-Drew from a vast bestiary of creatures as foes.

lolwtf

- I would hardly call ANY of the NPCs in BG2 deep. Most of them were defined by a few traits and that was it.
- lolwut
- Yes, because the vast majority of linear quests with only a handful of outcomes with token differences is innovative.
- Hardly that. If anything, the storyline was fairly basic and followed standard elements of its own type.
- A novelty, yes. Revolutionary, no.
- Handful of them.
- This is true though.

 

[DreadMessiah]

Oh please BG 2 had plenty of fights that would kill the whole party unless you knew exactly what to expect just like in DA. Those damn pirates when the party comes up from the sewers can be nasty. The adventurers in inn near the place where Irenicus and Imoen get taken to spellhold can kill your party. Shadow dragon, Firkraag, etc are tough fights unless just like DA you know what to expect and thus should be able to beat it on any difficulty without a party wipe. Hell just going through Firkraag's lair is nasty the first time. Archers behind barricades while melee charges your group. After that vampires, traps, another adventuring group, vampiric mist, golems, elementals, that damn wizard, and of course a red dragon who you met at an inn. Before the lair I ran into some werewolves too. DA has nothing on BG 2 in that regard. BG 2 had so much more than DA and so did IWD that it is not even funny. DA is bland and boring compared to BG 2.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Yeah but Vaarna is arguing that BG2 isn't that good as a measurement stick to start with.

 

[Talonfire]

The trick is

I like them

But seriously, what fucking roleplaying do you have in BG? Your stats don't fucking matter. Your class doesn't matter. Your alignment doesn't matter. Your skills are all combat-related. Dialogues are not about choice, but about pushing the story forward, and often don't even have FAKE choices, much less meaningful ones.

BG is advertised as "RPG" but it's no less of a dungeon crawler than IWD.

Your stats do effect dialogue to a degree; for example at the end of the original Baldur's Gate depending on your actions you may have a confrontation with Sarevok's lady friend. If your charisma is high enough you can convince her to leave without bloodshed.

Baldur's Gate II also featured those stronghold quest lines you could get depending on your character's class.

 

[pipka]

great idea. comparing an old game (which is considered as classic today) with a new game(which is based on classic)...

 

[Silellak]

Oh thank God, I was wonder when today's DA-thread would pop-up.

...I probably like the game more than most people here, but for fuck's sake, enough is enough.

Then again, I'm the one replying to an Andhaira thread, SO I GUESS THE JOKE'S ON ME.

 

[DreadMessiah]

Oh thank God, I was wonder when today's DA-thread would pop-up.

...I probably like the game more than most people here, but for fuck's sake, enough is enough.

Then again, I'm the one replying to an Andhaira thread, SO I GUESS THE JOKE'S ON ME.

Good job mang! Out yourself at the same time....

 

[Malakal]

Let's see:
NPCS: DA has some good npcs, but GB2 has good ones and it has more of them. Seriously, nothing from DA beats Edwin or Korgan.
Quests: BG2 has more quests and more variety. Not only go and kill stuff, also some riddles, mazes. Unfortunately BG2 suffers from 2ed lack of skills thus avoiding combat by dialogue is nearly impossible. Planar sphere. Drow city. Mindflayers.
Boss fights: BG2 wins easily. Mages are more powerful & they don't need a metric ton of minions to be dangerous. Dragons are much more powerful and have awesome spells & skills as compared to merely being big and hitting hard. Demogorgon. Firkraag. Drow army in ToB. Giant army in ToB. Irenicus in hell.
Itesms: BG2 wins by a large margin. Not only it does have much more types of weapons and armor, their abilities are also more varied. All types of elemental damage, stun, slow, drain, spell casting, intelligent (lilarcor), posessing unique abilities. And descriptions are much more awesome too.
Enemies: Ranging from dragons to kobo0lds in BG2. DA has darkspawn and darkspawn and more fucking darkspawn. One dragon, one shapeshifter, some humanoids. Weak.
Difficulty: BG2 isn't that hard. But DA has tons of potions and crazy magic so its quite even here.

So in the end I think that BG2 is better. But DA isn't bad, and definitely not when comparing to todays shitty rpgs.

 

[Malakal]

Ahh yes and IWD2 is awesome as an party based D&D hack and slash. Great 2D backgrounds, plenty of customization possibilities in character building, long and quite challenging gameplay. But it is what it is: party based hack and slash. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Nedrah]

Yeah, because BG2 isn't guilty of that. FFS

I wasn't even saying it wasn't. I plain simply lost motivation quicker with DA. On the other hand, it took me about 3 tries to even get into BG2, whereas DA worked for me from the start. I'll definitely pick up DA again, I might even buy the 5$ dlc, since I managed to forget about the dog in my current and first playthrough. Pretty smart, actually - they offer a rather harsh penalty for forgetting about that dog, c&c right there, you are constantly reminded about that failure by finding plenty of items that can only used by the dog. Here comes the dlc that allows you to circumvent the consequence for just 5$. Good stuff.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

DA>PST>BG2>IWD2>IWD>BG

 

[Nedrah]

Yeah, well, DA and PS:T aren't even in the same league, so I don't think it makes sense to argue about that. For some, DA might in fact beat PST. Then again, some like having their dick nailed to a table, so what the hell.

 

[z3r'0']

It warms my cockles to see the IWD series get the love it rightly deserves from gamers.
True H&S.

Also the hype and feedback surrounding DA is inspiring. Makes me almost believe in the good old days, when I was still a virgin youth.

Will get DA for sure. Just based on the fact that everyone and his dog compares it to BG 2.

BG 2 while not on the same level as our beloved Fallout or Plansecape, is still a fuck'n good game.

Though its hard to imagine DA having a cast of characters as good as:

Jaheira, Minsc, Jon Irenicus, Bodhi, Edwinn and that old paladin dude.

Let the good times roll again.

 

[Volourn]

"And I couldn't find any item descriptions in DA."

did you actually play the game? Gosh. Overlal, i did not mind your post, but pathetic ignorant stuff like this starts up my INTERNET NERD RAGE. Why bother disucssing soemthing when you don't know what you are talking about? It's embarassing.



"Jaheira, Minsc, Jon Irenicus, Bodhi, Edwinn and that old paladin dude."

Minsc is of the most overrated piece of shit npcs ever. Jaheria , Edwin, and a few others are awesome. Irenicus and Bodhi are not joinables. In fact, they are BG2's villains... and, it's one of the few areas where BG2 is vastly superior to DA. Irenicus +} Bodhi rule all.


"BG2 has more quests and more variety."


Nope. Not really.


"Unfortunately BG2 suffers from 2ed lack of skills thus avoiding combat by dialogue"

ERROR! 2E *does* have skills to avoid dialogue. BIO just didn't bother to use them.


"Mages are more powerful & they don't need a metric ton of minions to be dangerous. Dragons are much more powerful and have awesome spells & skills as compared to merely being big and hitting hard. Demogorgon. Firkraag. Drow army in ToB. Giant army in ToB.""

DA mages and espciially its dragons are varstly tougher than BG2 versions. ESPICIALLY dragons.



"But DA has tons of potions and crazy magic so its quite even here."

Oh, please. BG2 has just as many. The ONLY difference is I never really bothered to use potions in BG2. They were unneeded so by end of game I had hundreds of them. In DA, you ar epretty much forced to actually using potions or DIE.


"Your stats do effect dialogue to a degree; for example at the end of the original Baldur's Gate depending on your actions you may have a confrontation with Sarevok's lady friend.""

OMFG You mentioned 1 of maybe ten times in the entire Bg saga where stats/skills effected dialogue. While in DA (as well as NWN/JE/ME) stats/skills/talents effect dialogue all the damn time. This is why BIO's 'newer' games are vastly superior role-playing games than BG series.


"don't agree. DA has only 3 classes and 3 races with 4 subclasses to each class. BG has (i don't remember exactly) 6-8 races and loads of classes and subclasses. In DA you can bring only 4 characters in your party while in BG you can have a party of 6. Not to mention how 2d camera is better suited for tactical gameplay. BG pure win here. "

More doesn't always mean better. DA pretty much covers all those classes with less. Cleric/Mage/Druid are covered with Mage. Rangers/Paladins/Bards with fighter. Etc., etc. It don't impress me much. 4 vs 6 characters means absolute shit.


"Writing in BG is much better and the characters are much more interesting and original, while in Dragon Age they seem pretty generic."

DA characters ar emuch more original, and they're vastly deeper. ie. ANYONE who labels Morrirgan simply a shallow rude evil bitch obviously has not interacted with her more than 2 seconds. Hell, in the early part of the game, I had written Wynne off as a goody two show cleric. I was wrong.


"I mean just compare Aerie's wings being cut off, or Viconia's survival on the surface, or Keldron's story,... things like that?"

I'll take Oghren's background of being married to a paragon who dumped in to take off in some quest, and he eventually has to admit that she's crazy and decides to side with the PC to kill her.

Or Morrigan's rather complex relationship with her 'mother' Flemeth. Hell, I'm not even sure what is what completely between them still.

Or Seth actually being GUILTY of the crime he was accused and imprisoned of. Hell, my character thought he might be innocent. I was fuckin' wrong so I had to feel the guilt of letting a scumbag go. Or Shale's former live of being a female dwarf who got turned into a golem. The list friggin' goes on.



"Quests in DA are often less complicated than those in BG saga. Yes, there are some great quests, but there is also bunch of filler quests like bring a letter to 3 people... Then again so it is in BG, but far less than in DA. BG again for me. "

DA does have a lot mof filler 'quests'. This is true. But, even its filler quests are often interesting - like tracking down those who have become widows. If you want less filler quests, go play JE. It pretty much has no filler quests.



Ultimately:

DA > BG2

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Your stats do effect dialogue to a degree; for example at the end of the original Baldur's Gate depending on your actions you may have a confrontation with Sarevok's lady friend. If your charisma is high enough you can convince her to leave without bloodshed.

I guess this + getting a dagger +1 from the guy in Candlekeep Barracks if your CHA is over 16 makes it a truly roleplaying experience.

Baldur's Gate II also featured those stronghold quest lines you could get depending on your character's class.

ffs

 

[pipka]

BG2 fans vs DA fans. Who is better and why?

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

DA fans, if only because there isn't a mod in it to let you fuck your sister. Yet.

 

[Inziladun]

Is there even an origin where you have a sister? Not to say they can't mod that part in too, i'm just curious.

 

[Andhaira]

The origins seem like good ideas, save for the fact that there seem to be too few of them. IMO they should have been more in number, even if it meant making them shorter.