Development Info Dragon Age forum roundup @ Sorcerer's Place

[DarkUnderlord]

Tags: BioWare; David Gaider; Dragon Age

<a href="http://www.sorcerers.net">Sorcerer's Place</a> have <a href="http://www.sorcerers.net/index_dragon_age_forum_highlights.php">a roundup of various developer posts</a> from the <a href="http://forums.bioware.com/viewforum.html?forum=84">official Dragon Age forum</a>. Here's a bit from Dave Gaider under the heading "after Oblivion" where he compares BioWare games to those of Bethesda:
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<blockquote>The argument can be made that perhaps in our style of game we confine the game world too much in order to maintain its internal logic, that we force a path on the player that maintains its illusion only so long as the player is not trying too hard to break out of its confines -- but in this there is no half-way, you either do it or you don't.
<br>
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I suppose we could add a similar type of physics engine to the type of game we do, but think about some of the other differences there... if it's not a single-character game and you have a party to concern yourself with, where are they? Are they magically in your pocket, only appearing during combat? Do they have to move beside you? If so, suddenly having riding and climbing and flying becomes an issue of the entire party needing to ride and climb and fly. If you try to allow for that complete freedom which takes advantage of such a physics engine, suddenly you start facing more and more variables -- and once again you either have to make a decision on how hard you are going to maintain the internal consistency of the world.</blockquote>
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There are some <a href="http://forums.bioware.com/viewpost.html?topic=477427&post=4081347&forum=84">other interesting comments about evil</a> too.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.rpgdot.com">RPGDot</A>

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Well, that's what always bugged me the most in this whole "good-evil" thing in KOTOR.

All your evil choices were so obvious, it was like "Muahaha I'm so evil im gonna steal the old granmas purse and then kill her muahaha"

First of all, an evil person doesn't know he is evil. Quite the contrary, he will propably think that what he does is right. He will propably appear charming and clever in social interaction.

An evil character may even do good things, only for the wrong reasons.
Or he may do terrible things but with a good motivation - that would be that tragic kind of evil guy.

 

[Hazelnut]

Thanks DU - that was pretty interesting. Seems DA has flown under my radar thus far for some reason...

 

[obediah]

I really liked this one:

In MVP Baseball, I can level-up my characters. I can gain items to enhance my stats. Heck, I have plenty of detailed stats such as Awareness, Agility, Speed, Throwing Power, Throwing Accuracy, Endurance, etc. I have great customization and character creation processes. I can even control the cost of hot dogs in my stadium, and when I'm giving out free baseballs to increase attendance.

It is truly sad that stupid sports games that are universally bashed by the RPG crowd have more RPG elements than Jade Empire, which won RPG of the Year in various circles.

Perhaps Bioware should take a look at what EA is doing.

It may not stand up to in depth study, but it gets the point across, and is pretty funny.

Even not having really dug a bioware game since BGII, I'm still looking forward to Dragon Age. And so far, reading info from the bioware devs leaves much less bile in my throat than beth's boys. I guess this may change as the release date approaches, but for now it's nice to see reasons for a design decision, even if I don't agree with the decision or the logic it was based upon.

And I'll always pick "it may not be what you want, but it's our game and we want to make it this way" over "it will be the bestest ever, you'll be so wondermazed you won't even miss <gameplay element X>. Trust Us!".

 

[WouldBeCreator]

Well, that's what always bugged me the most in this whole "good-evil" thing in KOTOR.

All your evil choices were so obvious, it was like "Muahaha I'm so evil im gonna steal the old granmas purse and then kill her muahaha"

First of all, an evil person doesn't know he is evil. Quite the contrary, he will propably think that what he does is right. He will propably appear charming and clever in social interaction.

An evil character may even do good things, only for the wrong reasons.
Or he may do terrible things but with a good motivation - that would be that tragic kind of evil guy.

Although generally this would be at least a viable argument, I don't think it flies as a criticism of KOTOR, which is set in the Star Wars universe where villains are grotesque monsters who cackle insanely, speak in evil voices, and choke / electrocute / throw to Rancor beasts / push into Sarlac mouths / etc. people just for the heck of it. If anything, KOTOR didn't let you be evil enough, although making Hanhar kill that girl was possibly the most evil thing any mainstream game has ever let you do. (I leave out fringe games like Postal.)

 

[Dgaider]

Hmm. No vicious mockery of my forum posts? Am I in the right place?

*wanders around dazed and confused*

 

[deus]

Hmm. No vicious mockery of my forum posts? Am I in the right place?

*wanders around dazed and confused*

The RPG landscape is too barren to be needlessly cynical.

 

[obediah]

Hmm. No vicious mockery of my forum posts? Am I in the right place?

*wanders around dazed and confused*

we've even got 95% less tubgirl now!

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Hmm. No vicious mockery of my forum posts? Am I in the right place?

*wanders around dazed and confused*

We've got DarkUnderlord so heavily medicated, he's too busy fighting Christina Aguilera monsters to think you're evil, Dave.

Brwoar!

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Although generally this would be at least a viable argument, I don't think it flies as a criticism of KOTOR, which is set in the Star Wars universe where villains are grotesque monsters who cackle insanely, speak in evil voices, and choke / electrocute / throw to Rancor beasts / push into Sarlac mouths / etc. people just for the heck of it. If anything, KOTOR didn't let you be evil enough, although making Hanhar kill that girl was possibly the most evil thing any mainstream game has ever let you do. (I leave out fringe games like Postal.)

Well yes, youre propably right. Star Wars isnt exactly what one can call a good example for deep, rounded and sophisticated characters.
Still, with Darth Vader - it does actually feature such a tragic kind of evil guy, allthugh of course you can argue about how well (or bad) they did transcript this into the movies.

 

[Drakron]

Too bad Vader was born of Anakin and Anakin turning to the darkside reason was:

"I am afraid of Padme dying so I turn evil and oh if she talks back to me I just try to kill her in rage."

Sould I go about how Padme "lost the will to live" death?

Yes, the prequels are horrible but its not the Original Triology is that much better...

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I tend to agree. The prequels pretty much ruined Vader for me.

Anakin: "No, this is not the Jedi way!"
Sammy: "Stand aside, Anakin! I must kill Palpatine!"
Anakin: "I can't allow that non-Jedi action!" <kills Sammy>
Palpatine: "Cool! Hey, I can help Padme if you go run off and kill some children for me!"
Anakin: "Right you are! Off to kill some children!"

What? I feel sorry for anyone that looked down at their popcorn for an instant during that scene, because they'd totally miss the split second where that might have made some sense.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Too bad Vader was born of Anakin and Anakin turning to the darkside reason was:

"I am afraid of Padme dying so I turn evil and oh if she talks back to me I just try to kill her in rage."

Sould I go about how Padme "lost the will to live" death?

Yes, the prequels are horrible but its not the Original Triology is that much better...

Well, first of all, im not a fan of the prequel either, i hate it. And yes, Anakins transformation and his motives turned out to be very dull, uncreative and superficial and the scene where he eventually turned officially into Vader was so unispired that it almost hurt. (i dont mean the scene where he gets his suite but where he swears allegiance to Palpatine.)
I completly agree with you about that.

However, I think the OT was acutally better in this regard. It was simpler but also more convincing: The formula is : Act out of rage and agression and youll be a victim of the darkside and turned evil. For me, it was quite logical and well transcripted that if Luke had killed his father in EP VI he would have turned to the darkside.
Would have loved such a thing in the KOTOR games.

Anyways, I propably sound too much like a SW geek here.
What I am basicly saying: I didn't say I expect MacBeth, nor did I say that Star Wars is very complex and deep in this regard. But it is certainly more than the KOTOR games.

 

[WouldBeCreator]

Although the prequels were horrible, I actually think that the basic gist of Anakin's fall could've been made extremely compelling. He betrays his values and friends to ensure Padme's life, only to find out that while he's sacrificing everything, she's banging Obiwan (or so he thinks). That's enough to push someone totally over the edge.

The execution of that premise was horrible in the movie, but as a concept, it's not so bad.

The whole "passion leads to evil" nonsense never did much for me, and even in the OT it's not remotely coherent. Does Han turn evil by killing that bounty hunter? Does Leia by killing Jabba? (The former might've been a necessity; the latter clearly wasn't, it was an act of "rage and agression.")

I guess KOTOR fails to the extent that *becoming* evil is depicted as willful choices ("I will do the bad thing here!"), while the SW universe seems to make it more a trap -- act violently too often without trying to find a peaceful solution and you'll paint yourself into a darkside corner.

 

[Drakron]

The prequels are ruined by Lucas wanting to so some things, he wanted "Child Anakin" and the disaster that followed come from that "domino effect".

Also he forgotten "less is more", Vader was cool because we imaged all sort of things from his background ... a closed closet with a noise comming from it is always more scary that a monster comming out from it.

 

[Rulion]

Am I the only one who thinks it's pretty neat to have developers from fairly big and well-known studios actually come around and make posts? Maybe I'm just starstruck.

Like obediah, I haven't really been into any Bioware game since BGII, but I'll definitely look into this one. BG was what got me interested in RPGs as a whole in the first place.

Hey, anyone know what ever came around from that "Make up a race!" contest? My idea was totally badass. I'm still waiting for my check in the mail.

 

[Keldryn]

I really liked this one:

In MVP Baseball, I can level-up my characters. I can gain items to enhance my stats. Heck, I have plenty of detailed stats such as Awareness, Agility, Speed, Throwing Power, Throwing Accuracy, Endurance, etc. I have great customization and character creation processes. I can even control the cost of hot dogs in my stadium, and when I'm giving out free baseballs to increase attendance.

It is truly sad that stupid sports games that are universally bashed by the RPG crowd have more RPG elements than Jade Empire, which won RPG of the Year in various circles.

Perhaps Bioware should take a look at what EA is doing.

It may not stand up to in depth study, but it gets the point across, and is pretty funny.

And I'll always pick "it may not be what you want, but it's our game and we want to make it this way" over "it will be the bestest ever, you'll be so wondermazed you won't even miss <gameplay element X>. Trust Us!".

The guy that you are quoting is completely missing the point. Jade Empire doesn't have as many "RPG elements" as said sports title because it would be completely inappropriate for the theme and atmosphere that the game is trying to evoke. It's a game based on wuxia and Chinese fantasy film, it's not Dungeon Crawling With Kung-Fu Action. The decisions as to what elements a game includes should be based on what is appropriate for the game in question, not based on what arbitrary genre it falls into and what its fans expect.

Kung-Fu Hero: Wait! Stop attacking me while I look through my Backpack of Unrealistic Capacity for a healing potion! Companion 1, attack him. Companion 2, cast a Shield spell on us. Companion 3, I want you to unequip your chain mail and switch to your robe so you can move faster.

Party management, inventory management, a complex stat system, and turn-based combat would ruin the atmosphere the designers were trying to build.

 

[Keldryn]

I tend to agree. The prequels pretty much ruined Vader for me.

Anakin: "No, this is not the Jedi way!"
Sammy: "Stand aside, Anakin! I must kill Palpatine!"
Anakin: "I can't allow that non-Jedi action!" <kills Sammy>
Palpatine: "Cool! Hey, I can help Padme if you go run off and kill some children for me!"
Anakin: "Right you are! Off to kill some children!"

What? I feel sorry for anyone that looked down at their popcorn for an instant during that scene, because they'd totally miss the split second where that might have made some sense.

That moment in the film was the dramatic climax that everything in the previous two and a half films had been building up to. Anakin was rejected by the Jedi right from the very start. The council refused to train him. Obi-Wan didn't really want anything to do with him either, and only chose to train him because it was Qui-Gon's dying wish -- and that was likely the only reason the Council agreed to let him be trained. The Jedi never trusted Anakin, from when he first met them, and through the events of Attack of the Clones and the beginning of Revenge of the Sith. Because he was trained solely because of a feeling obligation to Qui-Gon, the Jedi resented having to train him, and you can see this attitude throughout the prequels.

His fear of Padme dying was unquestionable in Anakin's mind, as the exact same thing happened with his mother. He had a vision of her dying, he went to save her, and he was too late. Anakin's gift allows him to "see things before they happen" and his insight usually proves to be true, and we see this several times in TPM and AOTC. One of Qui-Gon's few instructions to him was to trust his instincts and feelings.

In ROTS, the Jedi once again show their lack of trust in Anakin by appointing him as a council member, but not as a master. By sending Obi-Wan to find Grevious instead of him. And finally, they ask him to spy on Palpatine, who up to this point has only shown to Anakin complete trust and support. Anakin kills Dooku, but knows that it was the wrong choice, and he feels guilty about it, that it was against what the Jedi stand for. And then Palpatine makes the ultimate display of trust in Anakin by revealing his true identity to him and placing his life in Anakin's hands. In response to that, Mace Windu is about to commit the same betrayal of the principles of the Jedi order -- that Anakin knows is wrong because he just did it himself -- and slay the unarmed Palpatine.

Everything Anakin has experienced in his life, and everything that has affected Anakin before this point plays right into the decision that Anakin must make. He knows that Padme will die in childbirth -- to Anakin it isn't just a belief or a suspicion. His trust in the Jedi and what they stand for has been shaken. They've never trusted him or accepted him, and always made him feel left out an unappreciated. Palpatine had deceived him, but up until that point had shown complete trust in Anakin and to this moment still offers unconditional support for him. The Jedi say the Sith are evil, but Anakin hasn't actually seen the Sith do anything evil at this point. He does not wish any harm to the Jedi at this point, but he questions whether they are worth his loyalty.

Ultimately, all that matters to him is Padme. He can't lose her the same way he lost his mother. Perhaps even how he lost Qui-Gon, the first "father figure" Anakin ever had, and the only one other than Palpatine who ever gave him unconditional support. If Palpatine dies, then all hope of saving Padme is lost. He can't allow that to happen, and he has to stop Mace. He can't necessarily work through all of the consequences of what he is about to do.

When he attacks Mace, and Palpatine reveals that he was faking it and kills him, Anakin realizes that he's been duped, and that he's made a mistake.

But he has also crossed the line. In that one action, he has committed himself to a path that he must follow. The Jedi will come after him now, regardless of what he does. If they find out about Padme, they may come after her too. If he simply turns away, Palpatine will kill him and Padme will die. The only way, in Anakin's mind, for Padme not to die is to continue along this path and do Palpatine's bidding. When Anakin kneels and pledges himself to Palpatine, you can see he is swaying, and he looks and speaks as if hypnotized or enchanted... he has had his first taste of the Dark Side's power, and its lure is intoxicating. He has pledged himself, body and soul, to Palpatine, in exchange for the power to save the one he loves. He's not really thinking as he goes about slaughtering the Jedi at the temple and the separatists on Mustafar. The Dark Side is clouding his mind and his judgement, and he is rationalizing it all to himself. The Jedi betrayed him. They never trusted him. Once he saves Padme, he can turn from this path and betray Palpatine.

Good and Evil are very much archetypal, black and white, almost physical concepts in the Star Wars universe. Anakin made a deal with the devil, he bargained his soul for the chance to save his wife. He is no longer his own person, fully in control of his own actions once he makes the deal. He lets the Dark Side take over when he has to do things that he might think are wrong, and the more he lets the Dark Side take over, the more control he loses. After slaughtering the leaders on Mustafar, Anakin still has a shred of humanity, he knows that he has done great wrongs, and he cries over what he has done. But he realizes that he has gone too far; if he turns back now, he loses everything, and all of the horrific deeds he has committed will have been for nothing.

He sees Obi-Wan, and he thinks that Padme has betrayed him. He lashes out in anger, no longer in control of his emotions. When he wakes up on the operating table, encased in the black armor, Palptine tells him that his own actions killed Padme. At that moment, the last vetiges of Anakin Skywalker's humanity die. He betrayed and lost everything to save her life, and in doing so, he killed her. He has no reason to go on living, but Palpatine forced this empty existence upon him. He has nothing left but his anger and hatred to sustain him.


Seriously, I don't see the abruptness. If you look beyond the events of that one scene, it's pretty clear how Lucas deliberately crafted the story so that Anakin's decision to stop Mace from killing Palptine is the dramatic climax of the entire prequel trilogy. Everything that happened before that moment contributed to Anakin making the decision that he did. Everything that happened after was the inevitable result of his decision. It's a classical dramatic structure, and I think it plays out superbly. What am I missing?

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Hmm. No vicious mockery of my forum posts? Am I in the right place?

*wanders around dazed and confused*

We have an interview coming up which will contrast nicely with the way BioWare make games. Wait a couple of weeks for it.

In the meantime, I need a bigger sword. Those Christina Monsters are getting feisty!

Yes, the prequels are horrible but its not the Original Triology is that much better...

I'm sorry but the first episodes completely ruined the original trilogy for me. I can't help watching the originals now and going "Oh right, Vader's evil because he's a whiney teenager who didn't get to root his woman". Built up sexual frustration must be a hell of a thing to live with.

However, I think the OT was acutally better in this regard. It was simpler but also more convincing: The formula is : Act out of rage and agression and youll be a victim of the darkside and turned evil. For me, it was quite logical and well transcripted that if Luke had killed his father in EP VI he would have turned to the darkside.
Would have loved such a thing in the KOTOR games.

See, now I never got that either. I mean, you kill the bad guys out of rage and hate and anger to stop them because they're killing your friends but by you killing them *you* become evil, which to me implies that *you'll* start killing all your friends because, gee-whillickers, you're evil!

Seriously, the whole dark-side thing in Star Wars has been royally fucked up right from the beginning.

What am I missing?

You're delusional and need psychiatric help.

Stupid fucking server time back-dating bullshit make me wait an hour to post stupid server.

 

[obediah]

I really liked this one:

In MVP Baseball, I can level-up my characters. I can gain items to enhance my stats. Heck, I have plenty of detailed stats such as Awareness, Agility, Speed, Throwing Power, Throwing Accuracy, Endurance, etc. I have great customization and character creation processes. I can even control the cost of hot dogs in my stadium, and when I'm giving out free baseballs to increase attendance.

It is truly sad that stupid sports games that are universally bashed by the RPG crowd have more RPG elements than Jade Empire, which won RPG of the Year in various circles.

Perhaps Bioware should take a look at what EA is doing.

It may not stand up to in depth study, but it gets the point across, and is pretty funny.

And I'll always pick "it may not be what you want, but it's our game and we want to make it this way" over "it will be the bestest ever, you'll be so wondermazed you won't even miss <gameplay element X>. Trust Us!".

The guy that you are quoting is completely missing the point.

Huh? The guy was taking Bioware to task for simplifying their games to appeal to the console crowd, when the console crowd is already buying games with more complicated stat systems in very large numbers.

The decisions as to what elements a game includes should be based on what is appropriate for the game in question, not based on what arbitrary genre it falls into and what its fans expect.

Naivety is *so* cute! It makes me want to pinch your cheeks and make you cookies. Bioware hasn't even been secretive about pushing more streamlined, action-packed, fast-paced systems to appeal to a larger audience.

 

[Dabrinko]

I tend to agree. The prequels pretty much ruined Vader for me.

Anakin: "No, this is not the Jedi way!"
Sammy: "Stand aside, Anakin! I must kill Palpatine!"
Anakin: "I can't allow that non-Jedi action!" <kills Sammy>
Palpatine: "Cool! Hey, I can help Padme if you go run off and kill some children for me!"
Anakin: "Right you are! Off to kill some children!"

What? I feel sorry for anyone that looked down at their popcorn for an instant during that scene, because they'd totally miss the split second where that might have made some sense.

That moment in the film was the dramatic climax that everything in the previous two and a half films had been building up to. Anakin was rejected by the Jedi right from the very start. The council refused to train him. Obi-Wan didn't really want anything to do with him either, and only chose to train him because it was Qui-Gon's dying wish -- and that was likely the only reason the Council agreed to let him be trained. The Jedi never trusted Anakin, from when he first met them, and through the events of Attack of the Clones and the beginning of Revenge of the Sith. Because he was trained solely because of a feeling obligation to Qui-Gon, the Jedi resented having to train him, and you can see this attitude throughout the prequels.

His fear of Padme dying was unquestionable in Anakin's mind, as the exact same thing happened with his mother. He had a vision of her dying, he went to save her, and he was too late. Anakin's gift allows him to "see things before they happen" and his insight usually proves to be true, and we see this several times in TPM and AOTC. One of Qui-Gon's few instructions to him was to trust his instincts and feelings.

In ROTS, the Jedi once again show their lack of trust in Anakin by appointing him as a council member, but not as a master. By sending Obi-Wan to find Grevious instead of him. And finally, they ask him to spy on Palpatine, who up to this point has only shown to Anakin complete trust and support. Anakin kills Dooku, but knows that it was the wrong choice, and he feels guilty about it, that it was against what the Jedi stand for. And then Palpatine makes the ultimate display of trust in Anakin by revealing his true identity to him and placing his life in Anakin's hands. In response to that, Mace Windu is about to commit the same betrayal of the principles of the Jedi order -- that Anakin knows is wrong because he just did it himself -- and slay the unarmed Palpatine.

Everything Anakin has experienced in his life, and everything that has affected Anakin before this point plays right into the decision that Anakin must make. He knows that Padme will die in childbirth -- to Anakin it isn't just a belief or a suspicion. His trust in the Jedi and what they stand for has been shaken. They've never trusted him or accepted him, and always made him feel left out an unappreciated. Palpatine had deceived him, but up until that point had shown complete trust in Anakin and to this moment still offers unconditional support for him. The Jedi say the Sith are evil, but Anakin hasn't actually seen the Sith do anything evil at this point. He does not wish any harm to the Jedi at this point, but he questions whether they are worth his loyalty.

Ultimately, all that matters to him is Padme. He can't lose her the same way he lost his mother. Perhaps even how he lost Qui-Gon, the first "father figure" Anakin ever had, and the only one other than Palpatine who ever gave him unconditional support. If Palpatine dies, then all hope of saving Padme is lost. He can't allow that to happen, and he has to stop Mace. He can't necessarily work through all of the consequences of what he is about to do.

When he attacks Mace, and Palpatine reveals that he was faking it and kills him, Anakin realizes that he's been duped, and that he's made a mistake.

But he has also crossed the line. In that one action, he has committed himself to a path that he must follow. The Jedi will come after him now, regardless of what he does. If they find out about Padme, they may come after her too. If he simply turns away, Palpatine will kill him and Padme will die. The only way, in Anakin's mind, for Padme not to die is to continue along this path and do Palpatine's bidding. When Anakin kneels and pledges himself to Palpatine, you can see he is swaying, and he looks and speaks as if hypnotized or enchanted... he has had his first taste of the Dark Side's power, and its lure is intoxicating. He has pledged himself, body and soul, to Palpatine, in exchange for the power to save the one he loves. He's not really thinking as he goes about slaughtering the Jedi at the temple and the separatists on Mustafar. The Dark Side is clouding his mind and his judgement, and he is rationalizing it all to himself. The Jedi betrayed him. They never trusted him. Once he saves Padme, he can turn from this path and betray Palpatine.

Good and Evil are very much archetypal, black and white, almost physical concepts in the Star Wars universe. Anakin made a deal with the devil, he bargained his soul for the chance to save his wife. He is no longer his own person, fully in control of his own actions once he makes the deal. He lets the Dark Side take over when he has to do things that he might think are wrong, and the more he lets the Dark Side take over, the more control he loses. After slaughtering the leaders on Mustafar, Anakin still has a shred of humanity, he knows that he has done great wrongs, and he cries over what he has done. But he realizes that he has gone too far; if he turns back now, he loses everything, and all of the horrific deeds he has committed will have been for nothing.

He sees Obi-Wan, and he thinks that Padme has betrayed him. He lashes out in anger, no longer in control of his emotions. When he wakes up on the operating table, encased in the black armor, Palptine tells him that his own actions killed Padme. At that moment, the last vetiges of Anakin Skywalker's humanity die. He betrayed and lost everything to save her life, and in doing so, he killed her. He has no reason to go on living, but Palpatine forced this empty existence upon him. He has nothing left but his anger and hatred to sustain him.


Seriously, I don't see the abruptness. If you look beyond the events of that one scene, it's pretty clear how Lucas deliberately crafted the story so that Anakin's decision to stop Mace from killing Palptine is the dramatic climax of the entire prequel trilogy. Everything that happened before that moment contributed to Anakin making the decision that he did. Everything that happened after was the inevitable result of his decision. It's a classical dramatic structure, and I think it plays out superbly. What am I missing?

I just wanted to say that was a very good post. Great even. Lovely read... Makes the actions in the film make more sense.

 

[RK47]

...*gasp for breath*
u saved the prelude somewhat.

 

[obediah]

Am I the only one who thinks it's pretty neat to have developers from fairly big and well-known studios actually come around and make posts? Maybe I'm just starstruck.

I think most of the rpg devs realize there is a lot of knowledge of and experience with the genre here at the codex. A lot of devs making "rpgs" these days aren't really interested in making rpgs anymore, so you get the "codex is a petty place that hates everything except fallout and the really really old hardkore rpgs - like Diablo I and BG II".

Of the devs that are actually interested in what we say, most won't spend much time here, just because we are an angry, bitter, cynical, bunch of fuckers. I'd like to meet the mythical lorebeast with a deep knowledge of rpg games released over the last 25 years, an interest in talking about them, and that isn't an angry, bitter, cynical fucker. The devs themselves only maintain the brittle facade of joy by continuosly dousing themselves in the delusion that they aren't part of the problem (because they've maintained the one core component of those old games ), and their game will be a return to glory.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

[[REASONS WHY ANAKIN FELL MAKES SENSE - NO, SERIOUSLY, DUDE! IT DOES! *SNIP*]

<clap><clap><clap> Now do why the Kessel Run in 12 Parsecs line makes sense!

Yeah, yeah. I think the majority of people get all that crap, but the way it's done, both in terms of dialogue writing and in terms of acting makes it come off as completely shallow, hollow, and a whole slew of other words ending in "ow".

Now, if Anakin said to Mace, "Don't kill him! We need to study him!" or even if he said specifically, "Don't kill him! He knows a way to save Padme!", that scene MIGHT have made more sense. But no, he preaches to Mace about being a proper Jedi, then runs off and murders children.

A lot of the shit between Padme and Anakin never makes sense, though. You have the scene in the second one where Anakin murders a whole village of Sandpeople, including women and children, and goes and confesses to Padme.. And she's not in the least bit shocked. Yes, they killed his mommy, but if you confess to a woman how you murdered an entire village because your estranged mother was killed by people in that village, chances are she's going to freak a teensy bit.

The whole Anakin saga is just pure shit. If Lucas were a good writer, he would have done the entire thing from Obi-Wan's perspective and not shown Anakin so much.

 

[Keldryn]

What am I missing?

You're delusional and need psychiatric help.

Um, yeah. With the level of hostility and insecurity that you're displaying, it certainly isn't me that needs that psychiatric help.

Thou has gained an eighth in Rudeness.