Development Info MCA and Role-Playing for the People

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Chris Avellone; Neverwinter Nights 2; Obsidian Entertainment

<a href=http://www.gamespot.com>GameSpot</a> has posted a <a href=http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/neverwinternights2/news.html?sid=6152163>NWN2 designer diary #1</a>, creatively called "Role-Playing for the People" and written by Chris Avellone.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote>The battles you'll have over the course of the game range from epic fights against legions of enemies to up-close and personal, one-on-one combat with a frenzied berserker boss. The camera control really lets you zoom in and see you and your companions in the midst of battle. When the camera's behind your character's shoulder, seeing the towering umber hulk or the swipe of a dragon's tail truly becomes impressive. If you prefer a more tactical feel, we also support the camera jumping to full isometric view, so you can get a feel for more multiopponent tactical battles.</blockquote>Sounds awesome, you have 3 different modes: epic, cinematic, and tactical, all in one game. A real innovation.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.rpgdot.com">RPG Dot</A>

 

[Pegultagol]

Seems all mode is somehow predicated on the uber camera angles. It is all in what you can see and what is hidden, I guess. Oh, and I did notice the 'feel' part.

 

[Drakron]

Lacks immersive camera mode ... missed that one VD?

 

[bryce777]

They shouldn't be allowed to say the word boss and still call it an rpg - unless it's a workplace shootemup rpg.

 

[Jabbapop]

why? even fallout had bosses.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

Not really. It had really powerful guys in it, yeah, but they weren't like "jump on their heads 3 times and you win!" You could talk to them, ignore them altogether and you could kill them, but it wasn't necessary.

 

[Atrokkus]

"jump on their heads 3 times and you win!"

Maaaaaaaahhh i want my SOnic back....

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

All CRPGs have bosses. The trick is to make them as natural as possible. Of course Fallout had bosses, but it made sense that Mariposa would have a bigger, better mutant than your regular supermutant. It's also natural that the leader of The Khans would be superior to the people that follow him. Of course Gizmo would have an edge over the people around him in Junktown.

 

[Crichton]

Of course Fallout had bosses, but it made sense that Mariposa would have a bigger, better mutant than your regular supermutant. It's also natural that the leader of The Khans would be superior to the people that follow him. Of course Gizmo would have an edge over the people around him in Junktown.

Really? Al Capone and Bugsey Spiegel were renowned personal combatants and much tougher than their bodyguards? Hitler was a bigger, better version of an SS captain? Napoleon and Attilia were twice the size of their men? There are a lot of qualities that enter in to what makes a successful leader, but they have almost nothing to do with combat ability even in the most violent environments.

 

[Naked_Lunch]

He never said they were tougher or bigger or better fighters. Hell, Gizmo was extremely weak. A well-placed critical could probably take most of his HP out. The Khans I can see having a strong leader because their entire society is based around fighting and physical superiority. The Super-Mutants are obviously going to be bigger and stronger because they too thrive on physical strength.

 

[Spazmo]

Actually Gizmo did have a really tough bodyguard with him. So too did Decker in the Hub have that guy Kane who'd use buffout and spiked knuckles to make you cry. So yeah, the leader of the organisation isn't necessarily the toughest guy, but there's a "boss fight" in there somewhere.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Really? Al Capone and Bugsey Spiegel were renowned personal combatants and much tougher than their bodyguards? Hitler was a bigger, better version of an SS captain? Napoleon and Attilia were twice the size of their men? There are a lot of qualities that enter in to what makes a successful leader, but they have almost nothing to do with combat ability even in the most violent environments.

Most CRPGs have bosses based on types or factions of lesser versions of themselves. An orc leader would naturally be superior to the normal orcs that follow him because of their society. In Fallout, the Supermutant lieutinant was better equiped and smarter than his underlings. That made sense. The higher ups in the Children of the Cathedral had better equipment, which also makes sense. Gizmo was weak on his own, but he had bodyguards to make him more of a fight.

Do you think it would be as easy to just pop Al Capone as it would be one of his underlings? Probably not, because he'd be surrounded with the perks of being on top.

 

[Crichton]

Most CRPGs have bosses based on types or factions of lesser versions of themselves. An orc leader would naturally be superior to the normal orcs that follow him because of their society. In Fallout, the Supermutant lieutinant was better equiped and smarter than his underlings. That made sense. The higher ups in the Children of the Cathedral had better equipment, which also makes sense. Gizmo was weak on his own, but he had bodyguards to make him more of a fight.

Do you think it would be as easy to just pop Al Capone as it would be one of his underlings? Probably not, because he'd be surrounded with the perks of being on top.

Al Capone having picked men for bodyguards makes fighting that group (him and the guards) tough, but it doesn't mean that he himself is a tough combatant, either "bigger" or "better", which was my point, there's no reason for an orc leader to be *physically* superior to the other orcs, even in the most brutal human societies, that's not how we choose our leaders, there were hundreds of Shawnee bigger, stronger and better fighters than Tecumsah and Prophet, that didn't change who was in charge, even neolithic humans know better than to follow a man because of the strength of his arm. The huns were as violent as any other society we've had, but attila didn't rise to the top on the strength of his horse archery.

 

[Volourn]

"Not really. It had really powerful guys in it, yeah, but they weren't like "jump on their heads 3 times and you win!" You could talk to them, ignore them altogether and you could kill them, but it wasn't necessary"

You idiot. Fallout had bosses. Moron.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Al Capone having picked men for bodyguards makes fighting that group (him and the guards) tough, but it doesn't mean that he himself is a tough combatant, either "bigger" or "better", which was my point

Which is why I brought up GIZMO in my original post. Gizmo is clearly a boss, even though he's not that tough of a combatant on his own. He still has an advantage over the player with his bodyguard and other guards.

 

[Greatatlantic]

While I understand the idea behind a cohesive world and the desire to avoid arcady convention, I got a weak point in me for "boss battles", provided that they are good. Some fights should be longer, harder, and require a greater deal of creativity to win then others. And these fights should occur at critical moments in the game.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have an indepth RPG with multiple ways to play and what not, but boss battles shouldn't be dismissed outright.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Well, that depends on what you mean by "boss battle". There's always going to be bad guys, and bad guys are typically going to have a leader somewhere. That's pretty much a given.

Killing the bad guys and their leader is always an option in a CRPG. That's pretty much the cut and dry method that any of them have in order to deal with said bad guys. I don't think that should always be the only way, though. You could get Killian's guards to deal with Gizmo on their own in Fallout, for example. You could bluff the the leader of The Khans in Fallout. In the real world, they got Al Capone on tax charges.

Just because there are bosses doesn't mean you have to murder them by design. At least, it shouldn't mean that.

 

[Lumpy]

They shouldn't be allowed to say the word boss and still call it an rpg - unless it's a workplace shootemup rpg.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Actually, Al Capone was a pretty good fist fighter on his own, as he used to work as a bouncer when he lived in NYC, before he lived in Baltimore for a while, where he worked as an accountant. Also, don't forget, he was in a gang in the italian neighborhoods of the five points and such, so he fought alot when he was a kid. Also, his nickname among his men was Snorky, due to a snorkeling accident when he was in Florida, swimming.

 

[Gambler]

Do you think it would be as easy to just pop Al Capone as it would be one of his underlings?

But the idea that you must kill the leader in order to defeat some organisation is a cliche. And RPG developer are prone to using it.

 

[Crichton]

Actually, Al Capone was a pretty good fist fighter on his own

I picked him specifically because he was a pussy, "scarface" picked up that scar by calling another gangster's sister a fatass and instead of making a fight out of it, he screamed like a girl and ran off, some tough guy.

 

[bryce777]

FINISH HIM!

 

[bryce777]

You should never say to yourself "I can't wait to see what the boss for this level is!" if you are playing an RPG.

And of course, no, fallout did not have bosses, and neither did the ultima games.

 

[Volourn]

Fallout did have bosses. Don't bullshit.

 

[bryce777]

Did you ever think to yourself "I can't wait to find the boss on this level?" No. Were some fights harder that others? I suppose so, but I would not say there were any bosses. Only the lieutenant comes close, and he is completely optional.

Sorry, but youa re a dumbfuck, as any can clearly see.