Review RPG Watch reviews Geneforge 4

[Section8]

Tags: Geneforge 4; Jeff Vogel; Spiderweb Software

That's right folks, <b>Dhruin</b> of <a href="http://www.rpgwatch">RPG Watch</a> has posted a <a href="http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=35&ref=0&id=146">review</a> of <a href="http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/">Spiderweb's</a> latest independent RPG release, <a href="http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/geneforge4/index.html">Geneforge 4: Rebellion</a>.
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<blockquote><i>Whenever Spiderweb’s games are discussed someone is guaranteed to say, “if only Jeff Vogel could get hired by one of the big guys” – an in-a-perfect-world scenario they dream would leverage Vogel’s writing and design talents with the production values of a BioWare or Bethsoft. Geneforge 4: The Rebellion showcases that talent in what is arguably Spiderweb’s best game to date but the iterative engine improvements may not sway critics. There’s no physics system or motion-captured animation, so it’s all about the quality of the content and the world Vogel weaves with text and 90’s era graphics.</i></blockquote>Naivety is endearing and all, but if you're <i>that guy</i> who wants to see Jeff Vogel work for BioWare or Bethesda, then it's time to reconsider whether or not you deserve your own opinion.
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Thanks <b>babyarm!</b>

 

[Higher Game]

Vogel is fine where he is, making great indie RPGs.

 

[Ladonna]

Indeed. I would rather see some of the talented people tied up in the industry go independant.

 

[Sir_Brennus]

Indeed. I would rather see some of the talented people tied up in the industry go independant.

I totally disagree with you. You only can change the system from within.

I'm with Dhruin this time.

 

[Globbi]

Naivety is endearing and all, but if you're that guy who wants to see Jeff Vogel work for BioWare or Bethesda, then it's time to reconsider whether or not you deserve your own opinion.

Unless he would be somehow a lead designer with power to decide, it would simply be a waste. And I don't think big companies like to give away the most important positions when they believe they have good people. And they do after looking at sales records.

He should just be more ambitious and get some more abitious people to get investors for another game, this time with some big and expensive production, with previous game as an example of what he can do while independent to convince that with investor it would be a lot better. But this probably needs a miracle as well.

 

[Zomg]

He just needs about twice as many people to buy each game for a couple of years, so that he can slow down to do more holistic work without having to feed his children sawdust and tap water.

 

[Jasede]

A game isn't great when it has a horrible interface and completely dilettantish art-design. Hells, I'd play Avernum and his other shit if it was made in ASCII, but when a game makes you want to gouge your eyes out it's just too much. Horrible art aside, which might be forgivable, there's the lack of improvement. It's always MOTS, MOTS, and then some. He's using the same fucking teabag to make another cup of tea, now stale, with bits of plastic and insects in it. It's not too hard to find a guy who'd make the interface playable and the art at least endurable. VD did it. Damn Vogel trying to shove more and more of the same shit down your throats.

 

[Jora]

On the other hand, VD has spent three years making his game with many other people. He still has his primary job and doesn't risk losing it.

 

[Joe Krow]

More of this indie nonsense? You folks are marganalizing yourselves with every post.

Whatever happened to fighting the good fight?

 

[JarlFrank]

More of this indie nonsense? You folks are marganalizing yourselves with every post.

Whatever happened to fighting the good fight?

Just what the fuck is your problem with indie games?

 

[Dhruin]

It's not too hard to find a guy who'd make the interface playable and the art at least endurable. VD did it. Damn Vogel trying to shove more and more of the same shit down your throats.

Crock of shit. The interface is perfectly playable.

And how do I know VD has a good anything? Where's the game so I can play it? Until it's actually here, you have jack to show.

 

[Vault Dweller]

And how do I know VD has a good anything? Where's the game so I can play it? Until it's actually here, you have jack to show.

He meant a good interface that was made by other people. See the quote:

"It's not too hard to find a guy who'd make the interface playable and the art at least endurable. VD did it." i.e. I found a guy, not made something amazingly awesome myself.

 

[Ladonna]

I totally disagree with you. You only can change the system from within.

So what do you want developers to do? Pull a gun in the Publishers general meeting?

'I will tell YOU what I am going to make you bastards!! Now give me my check!!'

Until there are publishers around that cater to certain genre fans (Say a publisher that had the interests of old school RPG players, Adventure gamers, wargamers, etc) nothing will change from within except further episodes of 'climbing for dollars'.

I like your positive outlook, but your wasting your time. Though I would hear from the utopianists in this thread how the New World will come about if you would care to share?

 

[Zomg]

Hey ESL stupids, Dhruin did not advance "Vogel should work for a mainstream developer" as his own proposal, he put it in mouth of some speaker in a hypothetical discussion.

 

[Texas Red]

Does this Vogel make the games completely by himself? Why arent other names ever mentioned?

 

[Psilon]

Who Are We?

Our current employees are: Jeff Vogel, President; Mariann Krizsan, General Manager; and Linda Strout, Office Manager.

Vogel does all the design, programming, and he did the UI art for Geneforge 4. The other two help a little with area design and do the business stuff, but basically Spiderweb is a one-man show. That's why other names are never mentioned.

 

[Jasede]

It's not too hard to find a guy who'd make the interface playable and the art at least endurable. VD did it. Damn Vogel trying to shove more and more of the same shit down your throats.

Crock of shit. The interface is perfectly playable.

It sure seemed unplayable when I tried it four times already. However- swayed by the normally not too delusional Codex, equipped with Avernum 4 and I-can't-believe-it's-not-an-illegal-keygenerator, I shall once more delve into the heart of the beast and see if this really has those gems of old-school RPG glory tucked away behind the [horrible] facade.

 

[Astromarine]

you'll like Avernum better than Geneforge. There's cat-people in it.

 

[Elwro]

Try Avernum 1 - I wouldn't start the series from the 4th part. Great games!

 

[Ivy Mike]

What's wrong with the interface? I'm playing Geneforge 4 right now and I'm not having any trouble with it. So far, it looks like I'm going to have to buy it. Two questions: Between the Geneforge series and the Avernum series, which has the most non-linear and/or multiple-path thingamabob going for it? Should I get the previous Geneforge games before digging into nr 4?

 

[Volourn]

Vogels' games from the demos anyways suck. AOD is way better, and i have yet to play it. Vogel needs to do better.

 

[Amasius]

Whats wrong with the Codex these days? Someone is praising Lionheart, the spambots return and indie games aren't shiny enough. Is this some kind of contagious brain disease or what?

 

[Joe Krow]

More of this indie nonsense? You folks are marganalizing yourselves with every post.

Whatever happened to fighting the good fight?

Just what the fuck is your problem with indie games?

Two things really:

1. They are made by talentless hacks who can not find employment making them elsewhere or whos ideas are so off base that they cannot find enough financing to make a marketable product. Honestly, they can never compare to the antiqaited games they emulate so why bother?

2. They distract from the "good fight" as stated above. We should be about convincing real game companies to raise their standards instead of silencing our own voice by making due with retro garbage. The more we shift to "indie" games the easier it will be for the mainstream to ignore rpg fans. It illustrates clearly to them how out of whack our expectations are.

I say all this as an optimist who still believes we can change the bigger picture rather then accepting the obsolecence indie gaming will eventually bring.

Edit: I'm not on a mission or anything. My sig is just to piss off VD. A thank you, of sorts, for the new tag.

 

[dagorkan]

And now I'm sorry I sympathized with you Joe...

Jasede I hope you were joking about that keygen...

 

[elander_]

1. They are made by talentless hacks who can not find employment making them elsewhere or whos ideas are so off base that they cannot find enough financing to make a marketable product. Honestly, they can never compare to the antiqaited games they emulate so why bother?

Why not? There is a first time for everything. The problem is those guys trying to emulate what the big games do which amounts into crap. Your belief that big budget games want hire talented good designers makes me laugh. The contracts between studios and publishers and studio already give control of the important design decisions to the publisher.

2. They distract from the "good fight" as stated above. We should be about convincing real game companies to raise their standards instead of silencing our own voice by making due with retro garbage. The more we shift to "indie" games the easier it will be for the mainstgream to ignore rpg fans. It illustrates clearly to them how out of whack our expectations are.

I don't see how the two things work against each other. Big budget games sell because of boobies, pixel shaders, the voice of guys like Patrick Stewart and usability. Indie games should address the lack of gameplay in big budget games but not neglect usability and aesthetics.

I say all this as an optimist who still believes we can change the bigger picture rather then accepting the obsolecents indie gaming will eventually bring.

That's a lot of optimism in there say that indie gaming can't do shit.

This said what's the problem with Geneforge 4? It should work just like one of the old classics, turn-base combat and several map areas in isometric view. Looks to me like a very solid game.