2 new Oblivion movies

[Imbecile]

Its the noses. All of the noses look pretty much the same. They are rather wide and generally big. Does Facegen allow adjustment of nose size, distance between the eyes, length of face, width of face, width of mouth, size of lips, height of cheekbones, etc.? I know that we have heard that facegen allows lots of customization, but I have seen no specific mention of exactly what parameters you can change. If it basically just amounts to skin, color, eye color, hair color/style, and age-related features (wrinkles), then everyone IS going to look basically the same. From the screenshots I have seen so far, I haven't seen much variation in fundamental face structure. You have to be able to change the underlying bone structure for faces to look truly different...

Nah, it lets you fiddle with the noses. You can download a demo of face gen, and inevitably I tried (and failed) to model my face. I have a schozz the size of wyoming, so trust me, it needed careful modelling - but it was too big a job for one man alone.

 

[thomase]

Changing bonestructure = changing model + texture + animation.

Kind of hard to automate production of all those three.

I'm only talking about the bone structure of the face. Why would you assume otherwise?

 

[thomase]

Nah, it lets you fiddle with the noses. You can download a demo of face gen, and inevitably I tried (and failed) to model my face. I have a schozz the size of wyoming, so trust me, it needed careful modelling - but it was too big a job for one man alone.

Noted... Why is it then that all the faces in the various screenshots we have seen have a family resemblance? There must be some KEY element(s) of the facial structure which is lacking customizability in facegen. Maybe I should download facegen as well...

 

[crpgnut]

Here's a link to the trackable items in Oblivion. Several things in here.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=193318

 

[Chefe]

Well, 2 of the NPCs that came within visual range were both Redguards, so there'll be somewhat of a racial similarity anyway, but in general every NPC's face is different.

Those were Redguard??

Umm... you guys do know that the Redguards are black, right? I'm just making sure. Just because they have the word "Red" in their name doesn't mean they have slightly red-tinted skin.

But really, all the NPCs we've seen so far look like ugly cavemen. Plz fix. Thx.

Changing bonestructure = changing model + texture + animation.

Kind of hard to automate production of all those three.

Uhhh... Facegen allows you to change every aspect. I've also played a game called Fight Night Round 2 on the PS2 that allowed you to change the structure of the face.

That's what's so great about these things, you DON'T have to make new models for different face structures. Join teh future, n00b.

 

[Whipporowill]

Well, 2 of the NPCs that came within visual range were both Redguards, so there'll be somewhat of a racial similarity anyway, but in general every NPC's face is different.

Those were Redguard??

Umm... you guys do know that the Redguards are black, right? I'm just making sure. Just because they have the word "Red" in their name doesn't mean they have slightly red-tinted skin..

Yeah... what the hell was up with that scarlet-faced fellow, he looked a bit sickly to say the least... "running quite a temperature there, lad?"

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

My theory is that he is a stand-in for a traffic light...

It looks like the artist who designed the redguard faces had some really weird color setting on his monitor...
"damn, and I thought i had given them this dark ebony color..."

 

[HardCode]

It's kind of hard to follow the narrative when every other word Pete and the "journalists" say is UMM, UMM, ERR, UMM, UMM.

I can't believe how empty everything is. I couldn't tell what time of day/night it was in that town, but there was nothing going on.

It looks like MW ... a whole lot of open space with nothing going on.

I would love to know how they managed to increase load times "by 400 percent" in the past week ....

 

[Whipporowill]

It's kind of hard to follow the narrative when every other word Pete and the "journalists" say is UMM, UMM, ERR, UMM, UMM.

Well, I think that's pretty ordinary human behaviour - most people in pressured situations (such as a press conference) tend to fall back on these grunts when not performing a well-rehearsed script. Who cares, really?

I had no problem with seeing what time of day it was (and the rain was a nice touch(- albeit it was pretty strange seeing a lit torch on one of the houses during the day, hopefully just an oversight. It'd been interesting to see a market square or somewhere where npc would normally idle and interact - from the demo I more got the feeling they spawned off-screen and headed in the same direction. Not very convincing. Hard to say what was scripted for the show and what's supposed to be in the game.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Actually the number of NPCs walking around in town varies tremendously. Sometimes it'll be pretty busy -- sometimes it'll be quiet like it was when Pete was walking around in Skingrad. It depends on the NPC schedules. There are also certain events where there'll be more people around.

As to the woman and her rumors topic. Maybe if she liked your character more, she'd have more to say. Maybe if you were in a certain guild, or had a certain level of fame or infamy, she'd have a quest for you. Maybe if you'd completed a certain quest, or talked to someone else first, she'd have additional things to talk about. Or maybe someone else will give you a quest that leads you back to her, and then she'll have things you can ask her about or confront her with.

From earlier in the thread.

 

[HardCode]

Well, if the character in the demo had 10,000 points of everything, why not use a saved game for this demo where there IS a decent population to be seen.

Everything from Bethesda seems to contradict what is shown, and vise-versa. Why on earth would Pete demo something that DOESN'T show Olbivion's good points? Why show a demo at a desolate time of day? Why show a demo with a character with no dialog? Why not demo someone WITH a lot of dialog?

It seems that Bethesda is just trying to hide the fact that the game isn't as involved as they claim.

I mean, who would make a movie trailer with the most boring parts? Who would put an ad in a magazine without detailing the product's high points? Who would write a newspaper article without useful information? Who would show a car at a dealership without wheels, claiming, "Oh, the car YOU buy will have wheels. But sorry, you can't see what THIS car has to offer."

 

[Vault Dweller]

Everything from Bethesda seems to contradict what is shown, and vise-versa. Why on earth would Pete demo something that DOESN'T show Olbivion's good points? Why show a demo at a desolate time of day? Why show a demo with a character with no dialog? Why not demo someone WITH a lot of dialog?

It seems that Bethesda is just trying to hide the fact that the game isn't as involved as they claim.

Good point. Why indeed? Nobody would show weak sides of a product if they have strong ones to show.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

It wasn't a canned demo. Pete was playing the real game, only the player character had been buffed up. Otherwise it was the game itself.

It's just how things worked out -- unless there's a specific event going on, it's hard to predict when there'll be a bunch of people around -- and happen to be in the specific area of the one town Pete walked around for a couple minutes during one part of one day.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's not the point. The point is it's unlikely that Pete wouldn't have shown better stuff if he had it. Comments?

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

In principle I would like it if there was a good contrast between night and day, early morning and noon, etc. That was kind of cool in DF, how the streets were empty at night. Just as long as some times of the day really show a bustling town. Ideally with lots of people working, shopping, chatting etc. I know that all those parts are there, so we are just left to see how it will come together in the final game.

What's in the video looks like an early sunday morning in my hometown... thats fine. I just hope you get the rushhour down pat too!

 

[crpgnut]

The game has pop-ins with just one or two characters on the screen. Can you imagine what would have happened if Pete had actually gone to a crowded area of the city? The game might have slowed down to a crawl with his character moving as if he was swimming in mole-asses :D

I'm really curious to see what ends up getting dropped. Did anyone see the nice shadows like we saw in the E3 video? I'm going to go watch it again.
It looks like they're going to have to drop features to get a good load time/framerate level.

The game is pretty, but I wonder when a machine will be out that can run this game at full glory. I'm guessing next Christmas, at the earliest.

 

[Zomg]

Well, I guess populated towns go in the, "Trust us." bin.

I'm surprised no one else is commenting on the voice acting - the lady in the town video seemed painfully amateur, or more likely very badly directed. She's cottonmouthed, she stresses syllables basically at random, and it's all flat and read-from-the-page. I doubt even the moonlighting Brits will come off very well if the voice director is someone who lets you out of the booth with that level of junk, much less Patty the intern.

Look upon Bloodlines voice acting, ye mighty, and despair.

 

[pantheon]

The game has pop-ins with just one or two characters on the screen. Can you imagine what would have happened if Pete had actually gone to a crowded area of the city? The game might have slowed down to a crawl with his character moving as if he was swimming in mole-asses :D

I'm really curious to see what ends up getting dropped. Did anyone see the nice shadows like we saw in the E3 video? I'm going to go watch it again.
It looks like they're going to have to drop features to get a good load time/framerate level.

The game is pretty, but I wonder when a machine will be out that can run this game at full glory. I'm guessing next Christmas, at the earliest.

I'd like to know what they are going to take out to meet the 360 fps requirement and why those things can't be retained in the PC version.

Trouble is, they will drop things we don't know about like larger battles in the main quest... not graphics capability.

 

[Chefe]

It wasn't a canned demo. Pete was playing the real game, only the player character had been buffed up. Otherwise it was the game itself.

Ouch. You serious, man?

It's just how things worked out -- unless there's a specific event going on, it's hard to predict when there'll be a bunch of people around -- and happen to be in the specific area of the one town Pete walked around for a couple minutes during one part of one day.

So, unless a specific scripted event is going on, the cities are going to be even more bare than Morrowinds? I mean, come on, three pedestrians walking along the streets? I didn't see any of those "thousands of animations" that accompany the "Radiant" AI system. No one was sweeping their front porch. No one was engaging in conversation with someone else. No one was trading outside. No one was relaxing against the stone walls. No cats or dogs were running along the streets. No commotion was heard at all in the city. None whatsoever.

Now, I don't know if Bethesda knows how a medieval city functions during the day, but I suggest you guys look it up. I also suggest you look up how a tavern operates, because there were TWO people in that tavern, and one was just standing around like a brainless *cough*morrowind*cough* drone! What happened to the drinking and setting animations? Conversations between NPCs?

Anyways, if you don't feel like answering any of that, if you could answer ONE question I have and an answer would be greatly appreciated...

Will Bethesda ever stop dodging questions with the "well, we just didn't go there at the right time" response to videos? Will we ever see this supposed actual gameplay and environment?

Who would show a car at a dealership without wheels, claiming, "Oh, the car YOU buy will have wheels. But sorry, you can't see what THIS car has to offer."

Thank you. Excellent comparison.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

No, he might have turned the corner and there could have been 6 people there. I've seen more than that. It depends on the NPC schedules.

It just worked out that the areas he went in the presentation didn't have many people around. Yeah, it's a shame, because it's not representative of the entire game.

 

[Micmu]

No offense, but I think you guys suck at doing presentations.

 

[HardCode]

No offense, but I think you guys suck at doing presentations.

I agree, but to be fair to MSFD, who is replying in this thread, you should point out that Pete and Todd suck at doing presentations, and not roll up all of Bethesda.

@MSFD: My statement was meant rhetorically (towards you), as I know you can't agree on any bad points because you are an employee, but thanks for giving it a shot Now, if it is true that he could have turned the corner and saw 6 NPCs, then that would give some hope. Now, let me think of some more hit-n-run statements :D

I really would like nothing more than for me to be wrong about my perceptions of Oblivion, and it turns out to be really good. It's just that what is shown isn't indicative of that.

I may buy it to support the Keep Meister Employed Fund, though.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

I may buy it to support the Keep Meister Employed Fund, though.

 

[Chefe]

No, he might have turned the corner and there could have been 6 people there. I've seen more than that. It depends on the NPC schedules.

It just worked out that the areas he went in the presentation didn't have many people around.

Oh man, so he just turned the wrong way! Ah, I see how it makes sense now. The long stretches of streets that he walked on was just the wrong part of the city. How could I ever be so fucking foolish?

Yeah, it's a shame, because it's not representative of the entire game.

Pete is an annoying sack of shit. He is the most incompetant public relations guy I've ever bore witness to. I think Bethesda should start looking at some applications to replace that crack-smoking loon. Really, I wonder how the hell he even got that job.

 

[Micmu]

I agree, but to be fair to MSFD, who is replying in this thread, you should point out that Pete and Todd suck at doing presentations, and not roll up all of Bethesda.

Oh, I do mean them...for sewing confusion. I do wonder what was the problem then to not show a bit of promised town activity. Even if they had performance problems. After all, he DID explain that later (when asked).
My appologies to MSFD.