Game News Emil explains the dialogue comments

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Bethesda Softworks; Fallout 3

Remember the "we didn't want to penalize or reward the player for carrying on a conversation" comments Emil made the other day? Well, turned out a lot of people weren't overly impressed with them, so Emil got in his bike and <a href=http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=748460&st=60&p=10837831&#entry10837831>started backpedaling</a> faster than Pete Hines trying to weasel his way out of "We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game..." line.
<br>
<br>
<blockquote>Wow, I didn't realize the comments I made in that 1Up interview -- you know, about dialogue -- would cause such a stir! Mostly because I didn't realize I had chosen my words so poorly. Ugh.</blockquote>I guess that's why you didn't want to penalize players for failing dialogue checks, eh?
<br>
<br>
<blockquote>Believe me or not, but here's the reality of dialogue in Fallout 3: it does matter. It matters more than dialogue in one of our games has ever mattered. I feel really comfortable saying that, because one of my responsibilities is editing and directing all the dialogue that gets written, and one of my personal crusades is pushing the NPC interactions to be more meaningful. <u>We approached that level in Oblivion -- now I really feel like we've truly reached it</u>.</blockquote>Great start (I really liked that powerful "it does matter!" part), but the ending killed it. Anyway, here is the rest:
<br>
<br>
<blockquote>So yes, you do get to roleplay through dialogue: sometimes, how you say something is just as important (and enjoyable) as what you say. Yes, you can ask different NPCs different things, in different ways. Yes, a lot of times your skills and attributes (besides just Speech) will open up new dialogue options. And yes, what you say in dialogue will matter. Act like a wiseguy, and an NPC may attack you, or refuse to deal with you. Treat an NPC with respect, and maybe he'll be more willing to talk to you.
<br>
<br>
Of course, in the true spirit of Fallout -- in which the NPCs themselves have personalities -- it really depends on who you're dealing with. NPCs, like people, have their own quirks and preferences. Take a bold approach with the right NPC, and she may like you even more. Play the weakling with the wrong guy, and you may just tick him off. So, indirectly, dialogue affects the ending of the game in the sense that it can open or close quest paths, which in turn can lead the player to perform good or bad actions, which in turn determines the player's karma rating... which does factor into the endgame. I hope that clears things up a bit.
<br>
<br>
Overall, our goal with dialogue is to craft unique, meaningful interactions with the NPCs. We want the player to feel like he or she is having a conversation with a person -- not clicking on an information kiosk. Our designers have fully embraced that philosophy, and the game's dialogue reflects that. I really do think you'll be happily surprised when you play the game.</blockquote>Discuss.
<br>
<br>
Spotted at NMA
<br>
<br>

 

[Rohit_N]

So dialog could still be decent, huh? I'll be carefully optimistic about this one.

 

[Claw]

I don't care.


Also, Rohit_N is a fat, stupid American. Discuss.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Discus?

Oh...

 

[SlavemasterT]

So dialog could still be decent, huh?

No, the same people are still writing it.

I think the point of the post is to illustrate that the fucktards at Bethesda seemingly can't envision having the speech path in an RPG having a direct effect on the ending of the game. Though, frankly, though I'm not a Fallout aficionado, all I can remember in that vein from the first game is talking the Master into killing himself, which I was never able to do. It was still nice to know the possibility existed.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Another Bethesda lie. Why in the bloody hell do they even try to placate us through words? As the old adage speaks, actions speak louder than words. Show some quest footage, a better art style, or ax the fatman and maybe I'll believe his spew for a second.

 

[sabishii]

If what he says is true (THIS TIME), then great.

But everything Emil said is absolutely contrary to what he said in the 1up interview. He said in the first interview that he would not penalize or reward the player for dialogue. Yet here he says that if you piss an NPC off, they'll attack you or refuse to deal with you. How the FUCK is that not a penalty? And then dialogue influences karma which influences the ending - How is that not rewarding or penalizing the player?

He said that he "chose his words poorly." Now, how is "we didn't want to penalize or reward the player for carrying on a conversation" poorly written? That's as concrete of a statement I've ever seen (from him). The only way Emil would have been telling the truth through all this is if he meant to say "did" instead of "didn't."

 

[HanoverF]

We approached that level in Oblivion

I just stood on my chair and approached Mars!

 

[Rohit_N]

Also, Rohit_N is a fat, stupid American. Discuss.

I can find the U.S on a map...end discussion?

 

[OSK]

We approached that level in Oblivion

I just stood on my chair and approached Mars!

Possibly. It depends on your position on the Earth and the time of day.

 

[xedoc gpr]

So dialog could still be decent, huh? I'll be carefully optimistic about this one.

No, it came from Bethesda's mouth/site/interview. So you'll probably want to believe in the opposite until the game comes out. I don't understand why people still hear a Bethesda quote that sounds good, and say, "so there's still hope". No there isn't, this same stuff was said during Oblivion's development and we know how that turned out. So why are there still people on this forum who give them the benefit of the doubt? Gavin Carter says "The dialogue is really strong and will surprise everyone" and so Rohit_N says "I'll be carefully optimistic". Then Oblivion comes out and sucks. So naturally, when Emil says "Fallout 3's dialogue will be strong", what is the rational reaction? Obviously, to be optimistic about it.

 

[Lingwe]

Either way it still means that at the end of you game you are definitely going to shooting a lot of bullets.

, indirectly, dialogue affects the ending of the game in the sense that it can open or close quest paths, which in turn can lead the player to perform good or bad actions, which in turn determines the player's karma rating... which does factor into the endgame. I hope that clears things up a bit.

It has cleared it up plenty. Official confirmation that there will be no peaceful way to finish the main quest.

 

[Rohit_N]

So dialog could still be decent, huh? I'll be carefully optimistic about this one.

No, it came from Bethesda's mouth/site/interview. So you'll probably want to believe in the opposite until the game comes out. I don't understand why people still hear a Bethesda quote that sounds good, and say, "so there's still hope". No there isn't, this same stuff was said during Oblivion's development and we know how that turned out. So why are there still people on this forum who give them the benefit of the doubt? Gavin Carter says "The dialogue is really strong and will surprise everyone" and so Rohit_N says "I'll be carefully optimistic". Then Oblivion comes out and sucks. So naturally, when Emil says "Fallout 3's dialogue will be strong", what is the rational reaction? Obviously, to be optimistic about it.

Quoting from Emil, "I didn't realize I had chosen my words so poorly. Ugh." I should have made it clear that I was carefully optimistic about dialog, not the game itself. I'm quite aware of the numerous other problems that hinder this from being a true Fallout sequel.

Still, you are right about Bethesda's past failures in backing up their claims.

 

[pkt-zer0]

Wow, I didn't realize the comments I made in that 1Up interview -- you know, about dialogue -- would cause such a stir! Mostly because I didn't realize I had chosen my words so poorly. Ugh.

I guess that's why you didn't want to penalize players for failing dialogue checks, eh?

lol irony

Anyway, I don't have much to add, besides the usual: "Fallout 3 will be a great RPG with lots of choices, just like Oblivion" doesn't exactly convince me, so they'd need to start producing some sort of factual backup. Just release that E3 demo that supposedly converted every skeptic into true believers in FO3 indeed being the next RPG messiah.

 

[sabishii]

Just release that E3 demo that supposedly converted every skeptic into true believers in FO3 indeed being the next RPG messiah.

Oblivion

 

[Rat Keeng]

You know the kind of guy that does nothing but bad things, and then wonders why his ending sucks?

KARMA, BITCH!

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Still not caring, Emil! Sorry, sweetie! You blew it!

 

[cuthbert]

I think what he's saying is the dialog and it's impact is going to be similar to what you seen from them in the past. So I guess it's going from shitty to awful, which is actually an improvement by their standards.

 

[Paranoid Jack]

You know the kind of guy that does nothing but bad things, and then wonders why his ending sucks?

KARMA, BITCH!

Wow... deep. You should apply at Bethesda. They need good writers/thinkers/game-designers. :wink:

Anyone have a link to that Pete Hines photo from a few months back? You know the one where he looks like an escaped mental patient? I want to use it as my avatar.... it reminds me of that line in Even Flow. "He can't help it that when he's happy he looks insane."

 

[The_Pope]

They've taken the criticism to heart and added meaningful consequences to dialogue. If you can play the minigame so fast that someone goes to 100 likingyouness in under a minute, you get the silver tongue perk. This perk gives you a giant robot silver frog tongue that you can extend out to strangle mutants and use as a grappling hook.

 

[thesheeep]

Discus?

Oh...

That let me laugh for like a minute... Thanks, pal, you saved my morning


@Topic:

At least someone out there at Bethsoft cares

 

[tardtastic]

emil

"Ugh!"

Okay, I goofed! Here's the deal, believe me...or not!

Todd and I have been talking, and he's asked me to explain myself with better-chosen words delicious apple.

Everybody here at Bethesda wants you to know: dialogues will matter.

I can guarantee it, because I am personally committed to making good dialogues.

Sometimes what you say will cause fightings to happen. Have you heard about VATS? You'll love it!

Take a bold approach with the right NPC, and she may like you even more.



Dialogue will indirectly affect the ending of the game indirectly, by closing off or opening quests to you that you can then make the choiceandconsequence of doing or not doing - like blowing up Megaton, which is bad, very bad, bad player bad, which lowers your karma stat points, which will make your father very upset by endgame. This makes dialogue a meaningful interaction. In Fallout3, NPCs will even have personalities! We approached that level with Oblivion...

...Now I really feel like we've truly for really reached it. Ugh.

 

[Zomg]

How can both of those quotes come out of the same mouth? They're completely contradictory.

 

[Bradylama]

No, not really.

He's saying that dialogues don't reward or penalize the player directly. That they indirectly affect the karma rating eventually. Having an NPC attack you may not actually be a penalization, since that NPC could be non-vital, therefore the player isn't penalized since he's only pissed off a space filler.

It isn't dialog which impacts the endgame, but karma, so you could hypothetically do anything to affect your karma in a way that wouldn't impact what you've actually done. Let's say for example, killing innocents. As long as you kill filler npcs, the actions won't carry over into towns, and you could do a lot of good things for wasteland communities, yet still get the "bad" ending because you killed so many "good" npcs in the non-city areas. None of it will matter, because the endgame is determined by your karma, and not the actions you've taken. But it is indirectly, 'cause you know, actions determine karma.

Very intereshtink. But schtupid.

 

[Spectacle]

Yeah, that's another thing? Why does my "karma" determing the ending? The ending should follow logically from my specific actions, not materialize out of the blue based on some fuzzy principles.