Review ToEE reviewed at GameSpy

[Ausir]

Tags: Temple of Elemental Evil

<A target=_blank href=http://www.troikagames.com>Troika</a>'s new game (which is being released today), <a target=_blank href=http://www.greyhawkgame.com>Temple of Elemental Evil</a>, was reviewed by <a target=_blank href=http://www.gamespy.com>GameSpy</a>, with a 4/5 score. He pointed many good points of the game:
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<ul>One of the more interesting twists to the game is that your choice of alignment (i.e., your moral orientation) determines how you will start and finish the game. If you're good, you may be called upon to investigate a missing elven princess and destroy the Temple of Elemental Evil. If you're evil, you may be sent to slaughter the members of a caravan and take over the operation of the same temple. Your alignment also affects the choices you'll get during the game and how it may end. </ul>
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And some bad ones:
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<ul>ToEE's other major shortcoming is that its storytelling is somewhat lacking. You're given a different barebones plot at the beginning depending on your alignment, but from there on out it's just pretty much dungeon crawling. You occasionally talk with creatures you encounter in the temple, but it's rare and the story seems to progress pretty much the same way no matter what you do. ToEE has smatterings of the elements that go into good storytelling --- conversations with non-player characters, some backstory, the occasional mystery, side quests -- but it just fails to stitch all these scraps together into a richer tapestry. It's not as minimal as Diablo or Dungeon Siege, but it's definitely short of other RPGs like Baldur's Gate or Morrowind. </ul>
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While it <i>might</i> be accurate, remember that it's GameSpy who thinks that the most disappointing part of NWN is the multiplayer/toolset, while the original campaign is excellent. I'd rather wait to play the game for myself . You can read the rest of the review <a target=_blank href=http://www.gamespy.com/reviews/september03/toeepc/index.shtml>here</a>.
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[Saint_Proverbius]

That's fairly disappointing, indeed.

I'm kind of stumped about the comment about it being story-short compared to BG and Morrowind, though. Both of those games were little more than talk to someone to figure out which dungeon was next, then do that dungeon, then go back and talk to someone for the next dungeon.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I'm not dissapointed, we all know that the story revolves around the temple, so, if the reviewer expected to take a tour around the world a-la BG and MW, then he was mistaken. Overall review is very positive, imo.

Pros: incredible complexity

Finally, a game that isn't ashamed to be complex nowadays

Cons: no multiplayer

Fuck multiplayer!

The end result, though, is that the game is amazingly deep in its capacity for customization and replay

Replay? Don't mind if I do!

Depending on how you've built and developed any given character, you can pick from over a dozen different actions during combat, overcome obstacles like traps and locks, or interact with non-player characters in different ways. None of this should be unfamiliar to RPG gamers, but it's a matter of magnitude here. This game is very complex.

mmm, magnitude!!!!

The manual is as prodigious as some of the D&D rulebooks you can buy in stores

A complex game with a good manual! Could anyone ask for more? This Tim Cain fella, does he know how to make games or what?

 

[Volourn]

How can you guys be shocked at the story comment? I've been stating that all along. In fact, that review pretty much shows I'm probably egtting the game I fully expected which means its fully worth the money. That's all I ask. Tsk, tsk. Next time, don't waste time arguing with Victorious Volourn and actually research the subject matter.

 

[Jora]

How can you guys be shocked at the story comment? I've been stating that all along.

So what do you think about the story of Against the Giants? Is it similiar to ToEE or better?

 

[Psilon]

Good manual, eh? If it's got a jewel case, Troika probably did something to Atari management. Anyone remember the paper sleeves and shit manuals of MOO3, NWN, and UT2003?

 

[Araanor]

Also suprised by some of the bits in the review, won't draw any conclusions 'til I see it myself. GameSpy is GameSpy.

Next time, don't waste time arguing with Victorious Volourn and actually research the subject matter.

I'd draw that conclusion, but for a different reason; every time I've confronted you and asked for some substance to your arguments you've disappeared.

 

[Volourn]

Jora, to be honest I don't remember much about that module. Heh. So long ago. Heck, I had to re-read up on TOEE to refresh my memory on that one. That said, if IIRC, the module's story baisclaly ends up ebing "kill the giants" hecne the title. Sorry, people, but most 1E (or for that matter most pnp modules period) are known for their great dungeon crawling, combat, and puzzles. That's what Gygax is greta at; and that's exact what he wanted D&D to be. He dislikes the new fangled rp crap.

Psilon, I beleive a Troikian said, unfortiunately, it's the famous NWN paper sleeves. I hope Atari didn't do that; but don't hold your breath.

Aaranor, whata re you talking about? You mean because I don't post link after link ins ome chest beating? Sorry, I don't need to do that. I played the original module. I remmeber the basic story of the module. Sorry, I don't hide from criticism; though I don't really feel like going back and forth for all eternity. Thena again, you probably equate substance with links; I don't. These aren't trials.

I'd have the thought the one compalint people would have me is that avoid people. Geez..

 

[Dan]

Good manual, eh? If it's got a jewel case, Troika probably did something to Atari management. Anyone remember the paper sleeves and shit manuals of MOO3, NWN, and UT2003?

Tim already talked about it in the Greyhawk inn forums... The game will have paper sleeves, but the manual is a 167 pages spiral bound.

 

[protobob]

The 'incredible complexity' sounds great...especially all the options you have in combat.

I'm more concerned about complaints in regards to the interface than I am on the story.

I'm not really worried about the story. The story is what happens. These Bioware-style epic stories are getting old, anyway.

Oh, also I read on the atari forums that somewhere on the gamespy website it mentions that the demo will be on fileplanet this Friday.

 

[Jora]

That said, if IIRC, the module's story baisclaly ends up ebing "kill the giants" hecne the title. Sorry, people, but most 1E (or for that matter most pnp modules period) are known for their great dungeon crawling, combat, and puzzles. That's what Gygax is greta at; and that's exact what he wanted D&D to be. He dislikes the new fangled rp crap.

. I hoped Troika would continue to make story-driven games like Arcanum. I don't want to play yet another hack & slash game. But I will buy it just to play something.

 

[Volourn]

Hey, like I said, the modules aren't bad. They are good, and fun; just story is not the strong part. What Troika should do is get Atari to hire them to do an original story based rpg in a D&D world. That would give the freedom to have a good story.. Oh well..

 

[EEVIAC]

Cons: no multiplayer

Fuck multiplayer!

I feel the same way but I bet it was taken into account in the final calculations. I don't much care and that goes for "story-telling" as well (although my ideas on good story-telling in games probably differs from most.) It reafirmed what I most wanted/was expecting of the game - complexity, replayability, and detail.

 

[Seven]

The most disturbing aspect of the review was that he said your choices don't matter beyond alignment, if this is true then I'll be sorely disappointed.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Disturbes me as well, but he probably didnt experiment as much as we will with the possibilities. And after all, God Cain himself said that while party alignment doesnt overly affect how the game will end, it does give you access to "alignment only" ending choices/slides.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The most disturbing aspect of the review was that he said your choices don't matter beyond alignment, if this is true then I'll be sorely disappointed.

Huh? Where did you find that? Here is a quote from the review

Your alignment also affects the choices you'll get during the game and how it may end.

It means that if you are playing LG, you won't be offered / won't be able to choose evil quests, etc. The choices within your alignment are all yours to make (just like it supposed to be :wink: )

It reafirmed what I most wanted/was expecting of the game - complexity, replayability, and detail.

Can't go wrong with that! :D

 

[Seven]

Disturbes me as well, but he probably didnt experiment as much as we will with the possibilities. And after all, God Cain himself said that while party alignment doesnt overly affect how the game will end, it does give you access to "alignment only" ending choices/slides.

i'm trying to be a little pessimistic and temper my expectations. I definately believe that the game will have a high replay value, and good role playing but I don't want to get my hopes way to up.

 

[Voss]

So what do you think about the story of Against the Giants? Is it similiar to ToEE or better?

Its worse actually. And the Queen of the Spiders module at the end of the GDQ series...
Sad. And goofy.
Behold the glory that is Lolth and her amazing spider shaped...space ship?
Eh.

 

[Crazy Tuvok]

Volourn is correct in asserting that the story of ToEE (the PnP module) is not that great. It is fine, but hardly remarkable. Hell, even the title is a bit hack.
I don't really care that much as I can think of *very* few CRPGs or RPGs where the the story is actually all that great. I would much rather have a deep but narrow game (Fallout) than a wide but shallow one (BG).
Nothing in the review suggests to me that I will be disappointed by ToEE and it is still the game I am anticipating playing more than any game of recent release.

 

[Tris McCall]

<<<Its worse actually. And the Queen of the Spiders module at the end of the GDQ series...
Sad. And goofy.
Behold the glory that is Lolth and her amazing spider shaped...space ship?
Eh.>>


Oh, I loved Queen of the Demonweb Pits!

Then again, I *was* nine at the time. But I remember the web itself -- the series of overlapping walkways -- leading to some interesting gameplay.

Perhaps it's just nostalgia, but I look back at the G, D and Q series with immense fondness. I'd probably be first in line to buy a video game based on any of those modules.

Tris McCall

 

[Araanor]

Aaranor, whata re you talking about? You mean because I don't post link after link ins ome chest beating? Sorry, I don't need to do that. I played the original module. I remmeber the basic story of the module. Sorry, I don't hide from criticism; though I don't really feel like going back and forth for all eternity. Thena again, you probably equate substance with links; I don't. These aren't trials.

Try spelling Araanor right just once. This is the Internet, links are a very convenient way to impart facts. You've made some odd statements, it's up to you to back it up, otherwise it's just a waste of space. As for old arguments, how about this piece you posted recently:

As for NWN being one of the most over hyped games ever? Duh. I coulda told ya that. That's what you get when you have the dumbest people on earth - internet geeks - looking forward to a game, and IGNORING what the devs were stating

BIO dev Ray to the rescue!

The single player experience has to be as good as anything we've ever done in BG, BG2 or Throne of Bhaal and hopefully better.

Among other lovely quotes in that thread. Don't you learn?
Now, I'm awfully bored of this.

 

[triCritical]

If you a play a game for story you are incredibly stupid.

If you play a game for game play you are not wasting your time.

Last I looked MCA wasn't Voltaire, and Tim Cain wasn't Hemingway.

I play games for the same reason I played Pong 20 years ago because its fun. RIght now I like playing games like Jagged Alliance 2, MTW and Arcanum, because the fun is not in the story rather in how you play the game.

What I got from this review was that playing the game was really fun. And that is the only thing that matters.

 

[Volourn]

Yes, and BIO also stated things like how the Academy weas going to be like yet people still seem shocked how it turned out. Same with respawning, resting, most fo the cnages to the the rule, there's also the fact it was all well known that BIO didn't even really plan to have OC; but decided to do so.

Ok, I'll change my statement. People should really read EVERYTHING a developer states not just the good stuff, or the obvious hype which that statement is obvious. What did you expect him to say, NWN OC is gonna suck, and isn't as good as the Bg series? LMAORTFL

Of cours enot. Most of NWN's wekanesses should ahve been well known BEFORE the game was released., Shame on the cosumer for not paying attention.

As for your name, i do apoligize for that. :D


Tri is absolutely correct to a point. Story IS important; but is not always the most important in a game.

 

[Jora]

I don't really want an epic story, just something that keeps me interested in the game. I hate Morrowind mainly because there is nothing in the story that makes me want to keep playing.

I'm not saying that an interesting story is more important than good role-playing possibilities or an interesting world, but the time spent in designing combat mechanics and playtesting lots of battles would be better used in making an original and engaging story.

 

[Sabotai]

Ok, I definitely want one of those spiral bound manuals. It has been ages since I bought a game with a decent manual. Unfortunately the European ones probably will be a dressed down, non-spiral bound variant. Does anybody have good experiences with a reliable online shop which sells and delivers American imports (with a decent manual) to me in The Netherlands?