Review Visceris does KOTOR!

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

<a href=http://www.edbis.com>Edbis RPG</a>, in cooperation with Visceris, has posted <a href=http://www.edbis.com/all/reviews/2003/november/starwars_kotor_2.php>their review</a> of <a href=http://www.bioware.com/games/knights_old_republic>KOTOR</a> giving it <b>88%</b> for a very engaging story and strong cinematic style. Whatever.
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<blockquote>The game roughly uses the d20 System rules of the Star Wars Role Playing Game written by Wizards of the Coast. There are only 6 classes in the game, the three Jedi classes which are the Jedi Guardian, Jedi Consular, and Jedi Sentinel, and only three non-Jedi classes which are the Scoundrel, Soldier, and Scout. In the actual role playing game there are more classes one can choose from along with the fact you don't have to play has human. Multiclassing is restricted to being whatever your first class is and to your choice of Jedi Class and that is it. Such restrictions in a game are bad form when Bioware has made such open ended character creation systems in their other d20 System product, Neverwinter Nights. Another problem I have with the game is that I cannot see my die rolls. It's a minor complaint, but it is one that irked me throughout play the game
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Conclusion:
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It is a game that should be gotten if you enjoy well crafted computer role playing games.</blockquote>
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Actually you can see the rolls... What you can't see is how Visceris got to the "well crafted role-playing game" conclusion. He talks about poor rules implementation, crappy controls, linear story, good visuals, and party management. The only good thing was about graphics. Does that mean that good visuals=well crafted CRPG?

 

[Seven]

I haven't seen old Vis in a while; hopefully this will invoke a flamefest and a good time will be had by all. :D I really do enjoy arguing with those who contradict themselves over and over and over...

EDIT: Hey VD since when do you post news?

 

[Volourn]

Since he started posting old news like this.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

I dont like bioware, but you guys are making too many smart ass comments about them in the news. Saints mild critism is ok, but spazmo's and VDs in your face "BIOWARE SUCKS" is just going to turn this place more into a Fallout only just like DaC and NMA. Half the comments SPazmo makes is based off what saint says after he plays the game. Were lucky we have Volourn so we can have some bioware fans to debate with, but other than him there not many others. Putting VD on the staff is just messing up the balance between all RPGs and FALLOUT.

 

[Volourn]

Heh. I'm useful for something, I guess. I still find it fnny that even though BIO's games are supposedly not role-playing games; a site dedicated to hardcore role-playing covers their games intensely (at least compared to most other games); and only on the basis because they're advertised as rpgs. I thought people here hate advertisers and never listen to them. Weird...

 

[Transcendent One]

Greyhawk's opinion of the review:
[CENSORED]

 

[Volourn]

Very revealing.

 

[triCritical]

Actually you can see the rolls... What you can't see is how Visceris got to the "well crafted role-playing game" conclusion. He talks about poor rules implementation, crappy controls, linear story, good visuals, and party management. The only good thing was about graphics. Does that mean that good visuals=well crafted CRPG?

I would replace well crafted with finished. KotOR is a finished game, and I want ultra emphasis on finished. Most CRPG's made today like, 95% of them aren't finished. And this game actually looks like it is finished/polished/dun/whatever... Not even NWN after 5 long years was finished and it showed in a nasty way.

IMO the game is fun as an adventure game and as a finished game. However, it is less fun if open ended CRPG's is what you look for. Lets not forget the dialogue trees that Bioware made famous.

a) Why are you doing this...
b) I don't care why you're doing this...
c) You're mother's a wookie...

reply, (to any of the choices)

I am doing this because...

 

[Elwro]

Not only no one has proofread this text, but e. g. this sentence:

On the story aspects for the CRPG it is pretty linear in its progression, but in each stage of its progression there are at times side quests to break of the linearity

is, I think, written in very bad English. The author perhaps wouldn't get high marks for writing at school. It doesn't allow me to speak too highly of the site itself, too.

The first sentence contains a phrase "I come bringer my views (...)". Can you really say something like that in English?

EDIT: and can anyone tell me what's so open-ended about the character creation system in NWN? What the hell does he mean by that, anyway? I think the term "open-ended" is far overused nowadays.

 

[Psilon]

Heh. I'm useful for something, I guess. I still find it fnny that even though BIO's games are supposedly not role-playing games; a site dedicated to hardcore role-playing covers their games intensely (at least compared to most other games); and only on the basis because they're advertised as rpgs. I thought people here hate advertisers and never listen to them. Weird...

Seconded. With the amount of flak this board gives Dungeon Siege and BioWare games, there seem to be a heck of a lot of articles covering the predictably high reviews they receive. I'd rather have a weekly digest of HOTU/KOTOR/DS:LoA reviews with all the smartassed comments in one thread.

Then again, this is "like any other RPG news site, only ANGRIER." (Quote approximated.)

 

[Volourn]

Exactly. Angry is good. Angry, and green is better.

 

[Transcendent One]

Intense hatred of Bioware is always good. Just as long as it's neither blind nor rabid.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hey VD since when do you post news?

I was chosen because of my mad newz posting skillz

dont like bioware, but you guys are making too many smart ass comments about them in the news. Saints mild critism is ok, but spazmo's and VDs in your face "BIOWARE SUCKS" is just going to turn this place more into a Fallout only just like DaC and NMA. Half the comments SPazmo makes is based off what saint says after he plays the game. Were lucky we have Volourn so we can have some bioware fans to debate with, but other than him there not many others.

I believe I'm very objective in my criticism and it's not my fault that Bio sucks Anyway, I didn't say that KOTOR was a bad game, I said that I was surprised that Visc's overall rather negative review ended up with "well crafted game". I will try to be more profeshunal in the future

Putting VD on the staff is just messing up the balance between all RPGs and FALLOUT.

Everybody's a fucking critic, huh?

I still find it fnny that even though BIO's games are supposedly not role-playing games; a site dedicated to hardcore role-playing covers their games intensely (at least compared to most other games); and only on the basis because they're advertised as rpgs

Lemme put it that way. If the Codex were to cover only hardcore rpgs then we would be talking about 1 or 2 games a year. That'd be rather boring, don't you think?

IMO the game is fun as an adventure game and as a finished game

Agree. I enjoyed KotOR and like I said I'm glad that Bio is moving into the right direction. According to rumors, HotU was a big improvment over NWN too.

 

[triCritical]

snip

No its not very well written at all. As a matter a fact there are multiple errors that I detected on the little tidbit posted here and I am no good with english. Anyhow reviews should indeed be proofread and edited.

 

[Volourn]

VD,

Yeah, his review for KOTOR reminds me of SP's. Almost all negative until he says he ultimately liks the game. Go figure.

Well.. At least those 1, or 2 hardcore crpgs would fit in with what i guess the initial purpose of RPGCodex. Not that I mind either way since the discussion - not counting one or two people - are usually interesting.

VH.

 

[Sheriff05]

Fuck Bioware and Visceris, you couldn't pay me to play that stupid game
Admitedly I'm an asshole, but at least when I say "I'm never playing another Bioware
game", I mean it.

Happy Holidays :D

 

[Vault Dweller]

Saint's review was objective. Every point he made was valid, he didn't really said it was bad, in most cases he simply described it:

Example A from SP's review
Knights also doesn't offer a lot of skills, either. There are eight skills in the game ranging from diplomacy skills to hacking skills, unless you count the feats which are basically combat skills. However, the majority of the skills in the game are well used through the game, so you probably won't won't feel too disappointing for developing most of them assuming you picked a class that can develop them without penalty.

Example B from SP's review
As you can see, there really aren't too many choices in feats in the game. If you want to specialize in melee combat, and specializing is a good thing so long as you don't specialize in ranged combat, there's really only three active feats for you

And so on, some people may say that it's not overly positive, but it was not intended to be positive or negative, it's just the way it is in the game. If you think that Saint's review is negative it means you won't like the game.

 

[Volourn]

Sorry; but as much as I like SP's reviews; they are very much bias just like no matter how many things I complain about in BIO's game's I'm biased towards them.

Of course, SP and I, unlike Visc, are not wishy washy in what we say. Visc is all over the map. :twisted:

 

[Spazmo]

About the review roundup things -- I'd considered doing this, but I guess that's just now how the hamster wheel spins around here.

And about the BioWare h8 crimes -- Hey, fuck 'em. I haven't played KotOR and I've tried not to criticise this game that I haven't played when posting about it, but when it comes to NWN stuff, I'm gonna mention the horror. That's what I don't get paid the big bucks for.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Yeah, his review for KOTOR reminds me of SP's. Almost all negative until he says he ultimately liks the game. Go figure.

I think this is understandable. We have the example of Baldur's Gate 2. It has its bucketload of problems, yet, it's better than the first in many ways. Same with KoTOR - some rough edges, and still some problems Bioware can't seem to shake off, but probably their best game to this day, and superior to what they've been doing so far - but just because it's superior to their past titles doesn't mean there aren't bad elements in it. A game can have several problems in various aspects, yet, the overall experience of the game might be good enough to make players put them aside, to an extent.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Sorry; but as much as I like SP's reviews; they are very much bias just like no matter how many things I complain about in BIO's game's I'm biased towards them.

Of course, SP and I, unlike Visc, are not wishy washy in what we say. Visc is all over the map. :twisted:

Check out the reviews of the games I've liked, even the ones I gave a "Best Pick of 2002", like Geneforge and Prince of Qin. There's a heaping helping of bad stuff I've written in those reviews about them.

 

[Volourn]

KOTOR is not BIO's best game, RP.

SP, true; but it;s hard to take someone seriosuly about liking a game when most of wehat they write about it is criticism (much of it deserved). At least with those other games you've been very clear what you liked about them. Reading your KOTOR review, and your comments in the forums on the game; I'll still trying to figure out what exactly you like about it. You don't think the story is all that good; you think the combat system is awful, you feel they broke the SW code of ethics, the role-playing isn't as "perfect" as FO, and the list goes on; so what exactly do you like about the game? That's the question. :D

 

[DrattedTin]

The LASERS, of course!

 

[Seven]

Fuck Bioware and Visceris, you couldn't pay me to play that stupid game
Admitedly I'm an asshole, but at least when I say "I'm never playing another Bioware
game", I mean it.

Happy Holidays :D

You might want to reconsider that with the crap that's out there these days KOTOR actually does stand out as a good game relatively speaking. Bioware in itself isn't evil (okay, maybe they're a little evil), so might want to consider that *original* title they're coming out with.

 

[Sheriff05]

You might want to reconsider that with the crap that's out there these days KOTOR actually does stand out as a good game relatively speaking. Bioware in itself isn't evil (okay, maybe they're a little evil), so might want to consider that *original* title they're coming out with.

Nah, double whammy for me as I truly dislike all-things star wars as well,
my larger point being Visceris is a total hypocrite,
To see him giving a Bioware game a "good" review (despite the negatives)
seems like blatant pandering (to who and what I don't know or care) .