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Review Another opinion on Fallout 3

Elwro

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Tags: Bethesda Softworks; Fallout 3

Alright, how many articles on this game can we take? Seems that at least two more. <a href="http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=177">Here</a>'s my take on it, and Section8's review is coming!<blockquote>You may have seen the following quote from Bethesda's PR performer Pete Hines: "We're not going to suddenly do a top-down isometric Baldur's Gate-style game, because that's not what we do well." Thankfully, employing that line of thinking was just an isolated incident on part of the team. On the contrary, the developers have included MANY things they "do not do well". But it is precisely these elements which save the game and light glimmers of hope for the series.</blockquote>
 

cares

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I never thought the simple TB combat and the isometric view point were essential to them. Sure, it was nice to have these features, but of course a real-time FPP title could be a proper sequel, a true continuation of the series, provided it met a few conditions.

umm...sorry, but this is all wrong...just no...

That said, Fallout 3 is a game for all Fallout fans.
Fallout 3, despite being called "Fallout" and bearing a suggestive number, is not a Fallout game.

what?
 

ricolikesrice

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nice article, in before random retard(s) repeating for the 220th time how much of a bloom-infested piece of shit Fallout 3 is and that its worse than oblivion (unlike SoZ... )
 

trais

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That said, Fallout 3 is a game for all Fallout fans. This is, of course, because any true fan of the original series would have had their expectations sink so low that any good feature of the new game would have to be seen as a positive surprise.
I don't get it. It's not a bad game because everyone (including you) expected piece of shit and it turned out to be only a bad game?
 

poocolator

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I'd prefer it if the dialogue option shows up only if your skill % is high enough. I hate being able to see what I could have said have I had the right intelligence, for example. It's just plain stupid. Your character can be as dumb as a brick but still be able to say "incredibly intelligent things," just not "convincingly" enough to pass the skill check?
 

Longshanks

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That said, Fallout 3 is a game for all Fallout fans. This is, of course, because any true fan of the original series would have had their expectations sink so low that any good feature of the new game would have to be seen as a positive surprise.
Not me. My expectations were not overly high, but I certainly expected better than what we got. Fallout 3 always had several natural advantages over Oblivion, given there were certain Fallout aspects that could not be completely avoided - various ways to complete quests, skill checks, deeper dialogue trees, greater focus on characterisation, consequences to actions...

So, my expectations were for Fallout 3 to be a game that catered to my tastes much more than Oblivion did. What I got was a tweaked Oblivion with mostly poorly implemented Fallout features on the side. The skill checks were nice, but poorly written, lacking in consequences and real character build differentiation. Much of the dialogue was so poor, that I'd have preferred there were less of it, even down to Oblivion levels, at least for that game they knew what direction they were going in. Given that the alternate modes of quest completion came with very few, if any, consequences (even for Megaton), they were really rather superfluous. The skill checks, given how poorly they were implemented in most instances, detracted rather than added to my experience, especially as again, the consequences were almost non-existant, and that many of the checks had weak effects, and seem to have just been thrown in with little thought. The game's biggest Fallout related weakness is the lack of consequences. This was particularly noticable given that they did go the Fallout route in setting up many a consequence, but never going through with it, much less satisfying than a game that just stays well away. So, as with the dialogue, Fallout 3 suffers from dual influences, it is being pulled one way because it's supposed to be a Fallout game, but cannot bring itself to carry through, as an Oblivion-like game is where the audience and money is at, and is "what we do well".

Fallout 3, with all the attempts at putting meaningful stat-checks in dialogues, providing quests with various outcomes and ways of finishing them, a few locations designed with inspiration, and some small - yet important - very good features like the quest-related audio bits definitely shows promise. I'm glad Bethesda didn't think "we won't introduce stat checks into dialogue, because that's not what we do well". Yes, they don't do it very well, yet. But they tried, and I'm sure they learned something in the process. Some parts of the game show that with more practice, Bethesda should be capable of delivering a fully-fledged cRPG experience.
I disagree, and hold almost the opposite view. Do you really think the stat checks in Fallout 3 is Bethesda trying? A 12 year old could have made a better effort than many of them in terms of writing. Then we have the lack of consequences. What is the point of so many checks if they lack these? NWN2 had even more, but it was not a great roleplaying experience. No, to me it's clear they did not try, and that it's further confirmation they will not do anything other than TES-like games. They definitely added some Fallout elements to their game, but it was never at the expense of their standard formula, and it is crystal clear which of the two competing philosophies was dominant in the development of Fallout 3.

A deeply disappointing game. I have much more faith in the quality of talent at Bethesda than some others, and believe they could have produced a much better game were they not so tightly constrained to a particular model. Unfortunately, I see no signs that these constraints will be loosened any time soon. The success of Fallout 3 will only strengthen them.
 

Darth Roxor

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ricolikesrice said:
nice article, in before random retard(s) repeating for the 220th time how much of a bloom-infested piece of shit Fallout 3 is and that its worse than oblivion (unlike SoZ... )

butthurt detected.

anyway, on topic:

the number of "otional" ines

ouch.
 

Claw

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poocolator said:
I'd prefer it if the dialogue option shows up only if your skill % is high enough. I hate being able to see what I could have said have I had the right intelligence, for example. It's just plain stupid. Your character can be as dumb as a brick but still be able to say "incredibly intelligent things," just not "convincingly" enough to pass the skill check?
What? I'm pretty certain most optional lines only appear if you meet the req, and automatically pass. Only speech checks have a percentile chance of success.

I got a few [medicine] lines; they showed no % chance and were always successful.
 

Konjad

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All thread makers about fo3 shall be banned.

I'm going to vomit because of this shit.

Why do you love FO3 so much? Why are you so excited about this game?
 

Black

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Konjad said:
Why do you love FO3 so much? Why are you so excited about this game?
Some people think that being very fucking mediocre while everything else is just as bad or worse is a good thing.
You know, lowered expectations etc.
 

Shannow

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Black said:
Konjad said:
Why do you love FO3 so much? Why are you so excited about this game?
Some people think that being very fucking mediocre while everything else is just as bad or worse is a good thing.
You know, lowered expectations etc.
No. Some people think it is mediocre.
Others think that anything that doesn't reach *insert their favorite game(s)*-goodness is shit.
 

Konjad

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I'm not really interested if you love this game or think it's shit greater than the users of Codex, I'm just wondering why do you create so many topics about this game. It's annoying. Every times I look into codex I see several new threads about FO3. It is really annoying. No other games to discuss about? To pray or to shit at them? Just fallout 3 again, again and again?
 

trais

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Konjad said:
I'm not really interested if you love this game or think it's shit greater than the users of Codex,
Then go somewhere else. Is someone forcing you to read this particular thread?
Konjad said:
I'm just wondering why do you create so many topics about this game.
Beacause there are still people who want to discuss F3.
Konjad said:
It's annoying.
Your whining is annoying too.
Konjad said:
Every times I look into codex I see several new threads about FO3.
And what new threads you'd like to see? About koala bears? Yeah, I know they're cute, but it's RPG Codex after all.
Konjad said:
It is really annoying.
Repeat it again few more times, maybe then people will stop posting about F3. Seriously, you should give it a try.
Konjad said:
No other games to discuss about? To pray or to shit at them? Just fallout 3 again, again and again?
You have something to discuss about other games? Why not making new thread about it?
 

DarkSign

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Im surprised that people are annoyed or surprised by all the FO3 threads & reviews.

I mean Fallout (along with Icewind Dale and Torment) are the be-all end-all of rpgs for this group. EVERYONE's going to have an opinion and a review. GROW THE FUCK UP and use your brain.

Looks like VD and the FO3 marketing machine pulled Elwro into their fold.
 

Silellak

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DarkSign said:
Im surprised that people are annoyed or surprised by all the FO3 threads & reviews.

I mean Fallout (along with Icewind Dale and Torment) are the be-all end-all of rpgs for this group. EVERYONE's going to have an opinion and a review. GROW THE FUCK UP and use your brain.

Looks like VD and the FO3 marketing machine pulled Elwro into their fold.

Icewind Dale? Really? I thought it was Arcanum, Bloodlines, and/or MotB.
 

Elwro

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DarkSign said:
Looks like VD and the FO3 marketing machine pulled Elwro into their fold.
As for VD, I share most of his views on the game, but I believe I formed most of my opinions myself, to as big an extent as I could. Of course, it's impossible to prove anything in cases like this, but I think I had most of my text written when his review appeared. I just didn't have time to finish my article earlier.

But what about the marketing machine? What do you mean? I believe I'm bashing the game a lot in my text.

And as for the "Fallout 3 is a game for Fallout fans" line, I can't believe I feel the need for explaining this here, but anyway: it's a deliberately facetious way of referring to the fact that true Fallout fans are the only group of people on Earth which cannot be negatively surprised by Fallout 3. In fact, they have a higher chance of enjoying the game than someone who never cared about the franchise but e.g. liked PS:T or Arcanum, and never really explored past Fallout games and Bethesda's history.

@Darth Roxor: thanks, fixed.
 

poocolator

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Claw said:
poocolator said:
I'd prefer it if the dialogue option shows up only if your skill % is high enough. I hate being able to see what I could have said have I had the right intelligence, for example. It's just plain stupid. Your character can be as dumb as a brick but still be able to say "incredibly intelligent things," just not "convincingly" enough to pass the skill check?
What? I'm pretty certain most optional lines only appear if you meet the req, and automatically pass. Only speech checks have a percentile chance of success.

I got a few [medicine] lines; they showed no % chance and were always successful.

Well IMO it should be either black or white, meaning in order for the dialogue option to show up, it has to have automatically passed the speech skill check, and conversely, doesn't show up at all if it doesn't pass the skill check. The way it was in Fallout 1 & 2 worked best. They already do this with [Medicine] and [Intelligence] already, but should have done it for [Speech X%], too. I just hate seeing the percentage thing, detracts from the so sought-for "immershun" they always brag about.

EDIT: Sorry, in the original post, I meant Speech but got carried away. It's true, only % shows up for Speech AFAIK.
 

DarkUnderlord

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cares said:
That said, Fallout 3 is a game for all Fallout fans.
Fallout 3, despite being called "Fallout" and bearing a suggestive number, is not a Fallout game.
what?
Dude, learn to understand some fucking context. It's like when it comes to Fallout reviews, people read one line and shit their pants as they flip into HYPER INDUCED NERD RAGE without reading on a bit.
 

Ogg

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DarkSign said:
Im surprised that people are annoyed or surprised by all the FO3 threads & reviews.

I mean Fallout (along with Icewind Dale and Torment) are the be-all end-all of rpgs for this group. EVERYONE's going to have an opinion and a review. GROW THE FUCK UP and use your brain.

Looks like VD and the FO3 marketing machine pulled Elwro into their fold.
What I find annoying is that this review adds nothing new. And obviously you also noticed that Elwro's only regurgitating what he read in VD's review.
 

Vault Dweller

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I'm pretty sure that Elwro is more than capable of forming his own opinion.
 

hiver

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Elwro said:
And as for the "Fallout 3 is a game for Fallout fans" line, I can't believe I feel the need for explaining this here, but anyway: it's a deliberately facetious way of referring to the fact that true Fallout fans are the only group of people on Earth which cannot be negatively surprised by Fallout 3. In fact, they have a higher chance of enjoying the game than someone who never cared about the franchise but e.g. liked PS:T or Arcanum, and never really explored past Fallout games and Bethesda's history.
ugh... what?
No...not really. Are you mad?

Or maybe im juts not a true fallout fan then because i dont see whats enjoyable in that mass of mixed garbage that just stole some iconic elements of Fallout and put them in that horrible 3d simulator of ... something.
:?
 

poocolator

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Nah, it was pretty much everything I had expected. A giant, writhing, stinking mass of maggot-infested feces. Plus I never did like the condescending way the Bethesduh PR blokes treated fans. See (not PR, but whatever):
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:M%27aiq_the_Liar
and I get creepy vibes from Todd Howard and Pete Hines. At least Emil is a fat, clueless oaf, and easily forgiven.
 

cares

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DarkUnderlord said:
cares said:
That said, Fallout 3 is a game for all Fallout fans.
Fallout 3, despite being called "Fallout" and bearing a suggestive number, is not a Fallout game.
what?
Dude, learn to understand some fucking context. It's like when it comes to Fallout reviews, people read one line and shit their pants as they flip into HYPER INDUCED NERD RAGE without reading on a bit.

umm...what's the context?...here, let me make an analogy...

Nukular Tetris is a game for all Fallout fans...it's not really a Fallout game, but you should enjoy it anyway because it's a good game and the interface is Fallout-themed...duh...

anyway, the premise for this review, that a FPS with good writing, humor, etc. can be a proper sequel is shit...
 

Barrow_Bug

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Konjad said:
I'm not really interested if you love this game or think it's shit greater than the users of Codex, I'm just wondering why do you create so many topics about this game. It's annoying. Every times I look into codex I see several new threads about FO3. It is really annoying. No other games to discuss about? To pray or to shit at them? Just fallout 3 again, again and again?

Uh, Bro, where have you been? I already said this is FALLOUT 3 CODEX like a month ago.
 

Claw

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poocolator said:
Well IMO it should be either black or white, meaning in order for the dialogue option to show up, it has to have automatically passed the speech skill check, and conversely, doesn't show up at all if it doesn't pass the skill check. The way it was in Fallout 1 & 2 worked best.
I'm fairly certain it's possible to fail speech checks in Fallout, the games just don't tell you what your chances are. In fact, I don't think they tell you that there is a check or that you had to meet some req to get the line. The line's just there and the reaction varies.

I don't have a problem with this. I would prefer not to see my chances, but I'm fine with a skill check. I like the possibility of having different reactions to an attempt at lying or convincing someone. The only alternative I see is writing two lines for success and failure and do the check beforehand, but then a player who knows the game could tell whether he passed the check beforehand. I don't like that.
 

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