Editorial Damien Foletto talks about games at GameBanshee

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Damien Foletto; Fallout

<a href=http://www.gamebanshee.com>GameBanshee</a> posted this <a href=http://www.gamebanshee.com/editorials/pcrpgs1.php>editorial</a> written by <b>Damien Foletto</b>, formely of <b>Black Isle</b>, currently of <b>Silver Style</b> (hey, that rhymes). Anyway, first Damien talked about good ol' Fallout as no RPG editorial is complete without mentioning the holy name.
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<blockquote>Quietly, yet hot on the heals of a reborn PCRPG market came another game that would prove that PCRPG’s could not only be fun, but also open-ended, thought provoking, and provide a pretty accurate model for displaying consequences for one’s actions. Fallout took gamers out of the dungeons of old and slapped them into a subtly campy, 1950’s interpretation of a post-apocalyptic future where the player was tasked with a basic endeavor – survival. But it was not only his survival he had to worry about, but the survival of his fellow vault dwellers. Moral choices were strewn throughout the wasteland and the player could tackle quests in pretty much any way they saw fit. Fallout was a true role-playing game and fans of the genre could not have been more pleased. </blockquote>
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And then when the crowd was ready, Damien decided to expand the definition of the RPG genre by stating that...
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<blockquote>Games like the Sims have proven that PC games can be big money. And once again, when we look at the fundamental game play of the Sims, we can see a PCRPG. Granted, there are no actual quests or even a story line, but the player does make their own character and develops that character through interactions with other NPC’s. RPG-lite, true, but still a basic RPG at its core.</blockquote>
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Well, we wish Damien to get well soon and we're looking forward to the next Sim game from Silver Style
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.rpgdot.com">RPG Dot</A>

 

[Voss]

Get well soon?


Anyway, I don't think its been so much a shortage of RPGs lately as much as a long string of crappy ones, with a few exceptions here and there. These things take time to develop- and just because Iplay is braindead, it doesn't mean everyone is.

 

[Killzig]

he must have the "retarded game developer virus" probably caught it while making out with john romero.

 

[Spazmo]

Jesus Christ, it's a damned good thing Puuk & Co. got shot down at Black Isle. If he thinks The Sims was a good RPG, I shiver in horror at the mere thought of the crap he would have put into FO3.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Get well soon?

Obviously the stress during the last months of Black Isle was too high and now Damien thinks that every game is an RPG.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Well, note that he didn't call The Sims a full blown CRPG. He just said it had some of the fundementals of an RPG, i.e. - character development and npc interaction. I would have to agree with the RPG-lite statement. Now what he was leading to with that statement, I have no clue. I just hope he was rambling to be rambling and not implying that he intends to inject a bit of Sims in The Fall. That would just be sick.

 

[Voss]

No, he's saying that the Sims has basic elements of an RPG.
And if you look at it for the very basic elements, he's right.
Basic (but very simplified) interaction, stats, loot...
Which is where the RPG-lite comes into his editorial.

I'm not entirely sure I agree with his trickle down theory of RPGs (from smackdown, SIms and FPSs), but it might happen. (It reminds me too much of 'kids who play Magic will turn to PnP RPGs as they get older', which I haven't seen much evidence for)
But its better than another 'Give up now, for the end is near!' proclamation. And this sort of simple logic can work with idiots like marketing and manager-types (who are really the only people that need to be convinced that a good RPG can sell)

Gods. You guys have been giving him a virtual blowjob for the past several weeks as the 'one true Fallout survivor', and he writes one article you disagree with and you're ready to stick his head on a spike.

 

[Killzig]

he never deserved the virtual blow job to begin with and if you'll remember we at dac have always called him "PUKE" or Damien Fellatio.

 

[Ausir]

Huh? We were never too impressed with Damien. The only game he worked on developed internally by Black Isle that was released was Icewind Dale 2, which is far from being great. He also helped with Lionheart and BG2, and worked on 3 cancelled titles - BG3, FO3 and TORN.

So he has yet to prove that he's a "great developer" which he has "become" in news posts and Silver Style press releases...

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

PR politics. Go figure.

 

[Voss]

Since I don't hang out at DAC, I've no reason to remember that.
I'm only going by the news and forum posts here.

 

[Spazmo]

When did we give him any virtual blowjobs? When did we call him a true anything? Maybe the tearful whiners of NMA's new crowd are throwing their panties at Puuk, but I think he's crap.

 

[Ausir]

Voss: aren't you mixing us up with NMA?

 

[Vault Dweller]

No, he's saying that the Sims has basic elements of an RPG.
And if you look at it for the very basic elements, he's right.
Basic (but very simplified) interaction, stats, loot...
Which is where the RPG-lite comes into his editorial.

Quake also has some RPG elements, you kill monsters, you find loot - weapons, armor, and power ups, and you play the role of the marine (or whoever he is). So what? That's where basic misunderstanding comes from. That's why there are so many shitty RPGs, that btw are the real reason of PC RPGs decline, because people think that if they throw in some stats, a couple of NPCs to meaninglessly talk to, and loot, RPGs fans will like it and buy it 'cause what's not to like, then Harbinger, Lionheart, Revenant, or IWD2 gets released and ...surprise, surprise... suddenly the winning combination of stats, loot, and monsters is not enough.

Gods. You guys have been giving him a virtual blowjob for the past several weeks as the 'one true Fallout survivor', and he writes one article you disagree with and you're ready to stick his head on a spike.

Link please.

 

[Taoreich]

It's an excellent idea to inject presuppositions and inferences into what Puuk is saying, otherwiseone might actually see his point and that might give validity to one aspect of something one might otherwise find to be an anathema onthe whole.

The big issue often bandied about here an other RPG sites is the "open-endedness" of games; the abiulity to go off on whatever path one might want in pursuit of the "role" one might want to "play" (roleplay-get it?). Heck, Morrowwind is often cited as a model for this since, although there is a central storyline, you are not forced to anything in particular and the game does not end with the fulfillment of the main quest. Compare this to the SIMs where you are offered similar options (though Puuk is careful to give the caveat that this is RP "lte") and greater control over your character. Am I saying that the SIMs should be included at the Codex due to it's RPG qualities? No- I am merely acknowledging that Puuk's citation of the SIMs, as demonstrating RPG qualities at the extreme end of the spectrum, is a valid one and has value if properly incorporated into the right context.

<instigate> But I suppose this would make more sense to some if Puuk had said mentioned the lack of turn-based combat to the SIM's detriment </instigate>

edit-sorry for the redundancy as some of these points were already made...I need to be quicker on the draw

 

[Voss]

Ausir: No. Don't pay much attention to them, either.

Spazmo: The guy who brings THE TRUTH behind Fallout 3? Ring any bells?

I'm not directing this at anyone specifically, so everybody relax. The impression I've been getting here is he is basically the great resistance to the great evil that is Interplay, bringing truth and snippets of knowledge from the ruins of FO3.
So the apparent change of tone created by one article took me buy surprise


VD: Yes. I largely agree...read the next paragraph in my post, after the one you quoted.

 

[Calis]

Spazmo: The guy who brings THE TRUTH behind Fallout 3? Ring any bells?

Well, he gave us insight in what happened with F3/FOBOS. We thanked him for it. Nobody proclaimed him an awesome designer because of it.

 

[Voss]

Where (and why) did 'awesome designer' come into it?
I've never referred to him that way- and I'm not arguing that he is.

I'm saying appreciation turned into 'He said something we don't like- lets get him'

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Who the hell is Puuk again?

 

[Spazmo]

The ability to tell us what we were already pretty sure of--FOBOS killed FO3--is quiet independent from the ability to make good games, which Puuk lacks. I personally applaud him for speaking out against Interplay over at NMA, but I'm still totally underwhelmed by his games.

 

[Killzig]

I'm saying appreciation turned into 'He said something we don't like- lets get him'

We appreciate him as a fountain of information but not as a game designer. I think that's a pretty easy distinction to make Voss.

 

[Voss]

But apparently the fact that it has nothing to do with my point is too difficult a distinction to make?

 

[Killzig]

well your point is moot, the attitude for him as a designer has never been any different. This article is presented to us with Puke wearing his game designer hat.

 

[Ausir]

That someone gives us valuable information about Fallout 3 doesn't mean that when he says something stupid, we should shut up because of that.

 

[Voss]

Actually, it presents him wearing his gamer hat, not a dev hat.
Its his opinions on the CRPG genre. He isn't talking about what he's going to do on his next job.