Game News More fun with Carsten and Fallout 3

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Fallout 3 (Van Buren); Silver Style

In <A href="http://www.silver-style.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1711&highlight=">yet another thread</a> on the <A href="http://www.silver-style.com/forum/">Silver Style forums</a>, super pimp monger <b>Carsten Strehse</b> has posted a page long thingy about how cool it would be if they made <i>Fallout 3</i> or something like that. Here's just one paragraph:
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<blockquote>Everybody should remember the start of this complete FO3 discussion. We always said that we would be more than happy to see a FO3 from a developer which was involved in the development of FO1 or 2. Simply why we love the game (Never forget: Game developers are also gamers. If you aren't a gamer, it's nearly impossible to work on the creative side of the games business). We made the risky step to ask the community about their opinion about a FO3 from SSE. Especially if no other developer can handle it because of financial reasons or something we thought this would make sense for the community. On the other hand we wanted to develop FO3 because we are fans of the FO universe. I'm very sure that I played both games more often than a lot of hardcore fans. Not only because it's fun playing them, but since it's my job to analyze games in detail. I appreciate comments telling me that a FO3 would need this and that, but you can believe me that none of these comments tell me something new. I always said, we would only develop a FO3 if a) we can make sure that it catches the "spirit" of FO1 and FO2 (including TB, blood & gore, FO1 humor etc.), b) <u>we can make sure that ex-BIS staff is involved</u>, c) the community thinks it makes sense. </blockquote>
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I'd still rather see <b>Chris Taylor</b>, <b>Tim Cain</b>, <b>Jason Anderson</b>, <b>Feargus Urquhart</b>, <b>Leon Boyarsky</b>, and the rest of the original crew consulted before they just pulled aside anyone that ever worked at <A href="http://www.blackisle.com">Black Isle</a>. It'll never happen, though, but a man can dream.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=68994#68994">NMA forum thread</A>

 

[Anonymous]

Whenever I hear 'Fallout humor' I think of bad easter eggs, I do.

And if he was such a fan, he'd like his 'favorite game' to have a nice funeral instead of stringing up the corpse for a few extra quarters.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Yeah, he appreciates comments. Sure he does.

 

[Spazmo]

Hey, hey--Puuk counts as an old school BIS guy. Look at his brilliant work on IWD2!

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Puuk QAed the hell out of Fallout Tactics too!

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Carsten Strehse is a fucking joke.

 

[dagamer667]

Carsten Strehse is a fucking joke.

Actually, in that thread he seems to be the only guy who knows how the gaming industry works these days, and how a game needs to accomodate a wide set of tastes and preferences without diluting the end-result. In contrast, everyone else act like raving lunatics who think their tastes are overriding everyone else's. Certainly, you'd expect a bit more class from the board admin.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I'm not sure the games industry is working these days. Other than EA and MicroSoft, not too many publishers are rolling in all the money they should be making if their ideas were working for them. EA, BTW, if you take away The Sims and their sports games, I doubt it would be turning a profit.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Yeah, I was kind of put off by some of those people's posts in that forum. A bunch of fucking whining is all it is. Seemed like it was all "ME! ME! ME!". Yeah, well I got fucking news for you. It's not YOU, it's US. Who fucking cares about the portraits?!?! They looked good enough for me. Go cry to your mommy about portraits and avatars and kewl grafixx. I want good gameplay and could care less if some NPC I recruit has blue hair. OMG!!! HE HAS TEH BLUE HAIR!!!!!1!!! MY LIFE IS OVER!!!!1!!

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Yeah, I was kind of put off by some of those people's posts in that forum. A bunch of fucking whining is all it is. Seemed like it was all "ME! ME! ME!". Yeah, well I got fucking news for you. It's not YOU, it's US. Who fucking cares about the portraits?!?! They looked good enough for me. Go cry to your mommy about portraits and avatars and kewl grafixx. I want good gameplay and could care less if some NPC I recruit has blue hair. OMG!!! HE HAS TEH BLUE HAIR!!!!!1!!! MY LIFE IS OVER!!!!1!!

It wasnt much about the portraits more of the he doest like critism and thinks his idea is alot better than yours. he says hes played the FO games probably more than the hardcore, so he must know more than us since hes obivously played them so much more than the hardcore. Some kid in the thread said 60% of the "hardcore" fans are behind him, which is a sign that the cartisan "el bullshit facts" is rubbing of on his forums too.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Well, I really wasn't trying to defend him at all. Just point out that some of the stuff they are whining about on there is utterly ridiculous. His lack of being able to take criticism is a problem though and he shouldn't ask for it if he can't take it. His stance on the interface, for instance. What a load of bullshit. If he's so worried about "not pleasing the wider audience", then why not make the interface customizable so that someone could change it to fit their desires? Simple solution.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Having a large interface in a real time game, pause or not, isn't a good idea. Having mostly ranged combat makes this large interface + real time problem much, much worse. With games like The Fall, the more view you have of what's going on, the better. If you have a bunch of people shooting you from off screen at the same time, it's going to be a pain in the ass trying to figure out where everything is coming from. Even with an auto-paise on damage, where the hell did those shots come from? Of course, turn based can move the camera showing you where they came from, but with real time, you can have shots coming from many different angles. You can't just focus on one shooter at a time. So, because of this, you can't make a huge honking interface that takes up a third of the screen.

This is something any game designer with half a brain should be able to figure out on his own - he shouldn't need fans to tell him this. Even though he says you can turn off the interface, how many problems will that create? You can turn it off in Arcanum and Baldur's Gate 2 as well, but you lose access to several functions by doing this.

It's better to just make an interface that isn't friggin' huge in the first place, and use things like pop up menus instead. Something that won't constantly hog up your view.

Big DUH to Silver Style for that.

PS. I hate blue hair too.

 

[dagamer667]

It's not that large. My guess is that the two buttons on the right are designed to expand it or to hide it away. The problem of shots' direction is typically solved with tracers and stuff or some visual cues like FPS games do.

Why don't you just wait for the game to be released? At least that way you won't have to grasp at straws trying to bash it.

 

[Dhruin]

Seems to me the inability to take criticism went both ways in that thread - beats me how anyone can expect a dev to respond positively to some of that crap.

The interface is a bit big - but it is retractable.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Seems to me the inability to take criticism went both ways in that thread - beats me how anyone can expect a dev to respond positively to some of that crap.

That was my point. Some of those people on there just couldn't take what they were dishing out and resorted to bullshit whining and cursing. Grow up, people. I'm sure he would take the criticism better if it wasn't being served with a heaping of "j00 suckorz!" or "j00 r teh gai!!!1!" kind of shit.

 

[Astromarine]

I'd just like to say that companies need to cater to the lowest common denominator MY BIG FUCKING HAIRY ASS. *Nowhere* has this been proven. Ask Jeff Minter, The Gollops, Introversion, Spidersoft, Stardock, and the dozens of other uncompromising, independent developers if they're not making enough cash to live (and in some cases, live confortably). Ask Brad Wardell if he *ever* compromised on his vision. Fucking hacks like Strehse, whose big desire is be fucking *rich* by selling millions of copies of his game, never ONCE stopping to think "Am I talented? Am I good enough to make a piece of art?", never ONCE trying to. I play games as some audiophile listens to symphonies. To enjoy them on a gut level, and to be stimulated intellectually. Art does that to you. The Sims: Up The Ass doesn't. This industry will grow up when it starts thinking like the movie industry. When THE FANS finally crack open some dev skulls and put into their minds that a game does not have to spend 100 million in special effects to make a profit, that decent small movies like May, Cabin Fever, Ginger Snaps (to quote only horror movies) can make a decent profit while being considered pieces of art (not so much CF, but the other two certainly). That it is WORTH IT to try taking risks with the money the cash cows generate to invest in the visionary artists, to forward the art.

The day EA announces they will redirect 5% of the annual Sims *profit* to invest in Spidersoft, while allowing them over 50% creative freedom, THEN this industry will have grown up. Until then, the execs and developers working to mire it even more in the swamp of SLAM DUNKS can all kiss my ass. That's all the respect I owe them.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

That was my point. Some of those people on there just couldn't take what they were dishing out and resorted to bullshit whining and cursing. Grow up, people. I'm sure he would take the criticism better if it wasn't being served with a heaping of "j00 suckorz!" or "j00 r teh gai!!!1!" kind of shit.

Well, let's recap the thread. Killzig said the trade interface wasn't very efficient in it's use of space, and it's not:

There's also that image. Something about it just irks me. Do I need these gargantuan trade windows in the game?

chrisbeddoes said the interface was too large:

Make the interface SMALLER.

Several of the people agree with chrisbeddoes, then Carsten replies with this:

Don't think that this would be a good idea. A user interface should be used by the user and if it's too small the user can't use it. Used... eh... Got me?

Killzig calls him on this, and Killzig is right. There are many, many games with smaller interfaces that do quite a bit:

if its too small the user can't use it... that's absolute poppy cock. radial menus, keyboard and mouse combinations, hell you could even make certain compartments of that monstrosity collapsable.

Carsten replies:

The discussion makes no sense, I think. Seems like you're a very experienced player who's familiar using keyboard and mouse at the same time and any kind of combinations, so I understand your point of view. However, we also have to care about the players that are not that experienced.

You can hide the interface if you want to have a full screen look, no problem.

> what about the inventory trading screen?

Your statements reflect your personal taste, so it's hard for me to react. If I would ask 10 people on that topic I would get 10 different opinions.

What I can tell you is that the screen is very easy to use and that it's huge fun to trade your selfmade guns, necklaces or explosives against some fuel or ammo while watching the trader reacting on your suggestions for a barter. This whole trading thing is quite complex, so we need a menu for it.

If you don't like trading, you don't have to go to the trader and this means that you don't have to watch any menu for it.

I have to disagree with Cartsen at this point, and the way he does things. Might be a language barrier or something, but shit.. That trade interface is HIDEOUS. That's basically where the shooting match starts.

 

[Gorath]

The language barrier might indeed part of the problem here. I read that thread some time ago. My impression was that a bunch of people jumped on him and attacked him on a personal level. He decided not to flame back and instead make fun of those people. Do you expect Carsten to take somebody seriously who chooses aggression over arguments?



btw., the interface was indeed a bit changed. The new (incredibly small) shots at Gamigo show a slightly shrinked inventory. This is an improvement IMO. It takes less space and no longer jumps into the eye.