Review RPG Dot opinion on KOTOR

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

<a href=http://www.rpgdot.com>RPG Dot</a> has finally decided to write a <a href=http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=922>review</a> of <a href=http://www.bioware.com/games/knights_old_republic>KotOR</a>, giving it politically correct <b>84%</b>, while noting <i>limited classes, not much role-play, and uninspired combat</i>. I couldn't help but wonder if any other RPG with these cons could get such a high score.
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<blockquote>It’s appropriate that a Star Wars CRPG centre the roleplaying experience on the struggle between Dark and Light that forms the main theme in the first Star Wars movies and many players will play through at least twice to experience both sides. However, the simplified character development system and totally linear story make playing these two paths a similar experience. Beyond this, the roleplay options are limited.
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In many ways, KotOR is really an adventure game more than a CRPG – you’ll spend more time solving puzzles than “roleplaying”. It’s clear to me that BioWare intended KotOR to appeal to a broad audience, choosing to reduce the number of character options, simplifying combat and offering the appearance of non-linearity but without the true substance. My first run through took nearly 60 hours and around 40 hours for the second -- most of which I really enjoyed –- but I have no burning desire to play it again, at least not for now. A great RPG keeps me awake at night: I ponder which path to take and how to develop my character and I can’t wait to get back to it. KotOR just couldn't quite reach that level for me.</blockquote>Can't argue with that
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[triCritical]

One thing that would have dramatically improved KotOR is by reducing the combat. Just look at any of the Star Wars movies and ask yourself how much combat you saw? Number one rule of smart CRPG's is to reduce the combat to the point where every encounter is important. Unless of course, your playing D2, in which case this would defeat the purpose of the game.

 

[Slather]

Yeah, the Star Forge segment just took the piss. It wasn't even intelligent hack and slash. In any case, if I'm using lightsabers the least I want to be able to do is lop some limbs off, which was de rigeur in the films.

You should have had a choice of routes to Malak, only one of which was hack and slash. The others should have involved puzzles, traps etc (actually I like riddles, but having someone posing riddles in the middle of some cosmic warship-creator scenario might have been a bit...odd)

 

[Transcendent One]

I thought the review was very well done (though that score system is awful). The reviewer summarized combat very well (and I had a lot of the same gripes with the combat as that reviewer).

Yes, there's indeed far too much combat. The system itself is bad enough, but placing it around every corner is just too much. I found that for me the combat almost completely destroyed the game's good points. I loved the occasional "breaks" with various NPC interactions, or having to make interesting role playing decisions in certain quests, but being forced to spend like 80% of the game trudging through endless combat was unbearably boring for me.

 

[Volourn]

Yet you presumably continued playing it. At least Tri stopped. I think he did anyways. Too bad he got suckered into playing/buying another BIO faux pas rpg.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Still the same lame argument, Volourn?

 

[Sol Invictus]

I find that the best games are those with the least amount of horrible combat. Monkey Island 2, anyone?

Seriously, when I read the books that I read, I expect a lot of witticisms, interesting dialogue, quotable phrases and paragraphs and all the good stuff you might find in a Terry Pratchett or Neil Gaiman novel.

I can't stand R.A. Salvatore's 'action scenes'. Man, it's fucking annoying.

 

[Slather]

The only reason I kept playing to the end was the tantalising possibility of having sex with Bastila (the "victory shag"). Then I noticed the 12 rating on the box. Oh, and that she wasn't real.

Shit, I hate reality.

 

[Transcendent One]

And who says that I didn't stop, Volourn? I beat the game once, and I am not even going to think of touching it again.

R.A.Salvatore's "action scenes" are indeed damn annoying, especially considering that he keeps on recycling the same vocabulary throughout. At first I didn't mind them, but then it just got tedious. Oh and In Sylvan Shadows by Salvatore was the worst book I've ever read. It's one huge "action scene" from start to end.

 

[Volourn]

You beat the game despite finding it boring. You ddn't stop. Heck, you've played the game as much as I have. So, be ready to pick up your pre order of Jade Empire and Star Citedal.

 

[Vault Dweller]

So what if we do? We're game critics after all, most of us here, so it makes sense that we play games, all kinda games that claim to be RPGs, and then discuss them and their mechanics. I see nothing weird / stupid / crazy / inconsistent about that. Unlike crap like Lionheart, btw, what's your opinion on that, I heard you finally bought it; most Bio games are at least very decent adventure games.

 

[Volourn]

Yet you post news articles of them on a a supposed "harddcore' RPG game site like this. :shock:

Sorry, but unless youa ctually get paid to play games, if you have half a brain you shouldn't play games to the end that you find boring or crapy. Just a law of fun.

As for LH, I liked it okay when I first started playing it but I'm too distracted from NWN. My problem with games for the last two years is that they'e really going have to be special to make me stop playing NWN.

Yes, bring on the NWN hate. I don't care.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Yet you post news articles of them on a a supposed "harddcore' RPG game site like this. :shock:

Hardcore is the attitude, not the games. There were like 5 hardcore games released in the last 10 years, it would be terribly boring to cover only these games, don't you think?

Sorry, but unless youa ctually get paid to play games, if you have half a brain you shouldn't play games to the end that you find boring or crapy. Just a law of fun.

One more time for the slow people: bad RPG doesn't equal bad game. Bad games: Lionheart, MOO3, NWN, etc. Bad RPGs: BG2, KOTOR, etc

Yes, bring on the NWN hate. I don't care.

I know and that's why I won't

 

[Volourn]

1. Yes, but as you have said repeatedly, BIO doesn't make RPGs; they make adventure games. I thought this was an RPG site?

2. As above. This is a RPG site so why cover non RPGs no matter how good they are otherwise? Also, this comment was for those who call certain games boring yet continue to play them 'til the bitter end. Just plain silly to put it politely.

3. Good. You are learning.

 

[Vault Dweller]

1. Yes, but as you have said repeatedly, BIO doesn't make RPGs; they make adventure games. I thought this was an RPG site?

Ok, ok, they make adventure games with RPG elements. Happy now? The goal of each Bio game is to find these carefully hidden RPG elements and collect all 4 of them

As above. This is a RPG site so why cover non RPGs no matter how good they are otherwise? Also, this comment was for those who call certain games boring yet continue to play them 'til the bitter end. Just plain silly to put it politely.

Volourn, consider this your official warning: all future attempts to put something politely at RPG Codex would be dealt with extreme prejudice

3. Good. You are learning.

April's fool! I hate Bio! I hate NWN! Muahahaha! Fooled ya! (Yeah, I know this is lame )

 

[Transcendent One]

I don't know how much longer Volourn will be recycling these same old arguments. It becomes ridiculous after a while, really.

But anyways, I hated Bioware ever since NWN. That game was bad. Many people agreed. Then people said KotOR was much better. I played KotOR, I did think it was better, but I did not think it was a good game overall. I want something like BG2 again... it wasn't that great, but it was a solid title that had its moments, plus it looked like they actually learned something from their mistakes on BG1 ( stupid exploration areas :evil: ).

And of course I played KotOR through. If I hadn't, I'd have no business saying the game sucks

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I liked those exploration areas. I just didn't like that there wasn't much to do there, aside coming up with enemy group #45 with the same dialogue, intentions and loot.

 

[Transcendent One]

I liked those exploration areas. I just didn't like that there wasn't much to do there, aside coming up with enemy group #45 with the same dialogue, intentions and loot.

Why do you think I hate them so much? Of course, large empty area, hordes of random common fodder, generic boring dialog with the occasional generic poorly developed (or not developed at all ) NPC, occasional lame FedEx quest, occasional ph4t l3wt. Repeat that a few dozen times or however many of those areas were there.

 

[Volourn]

VD:

1. lol

2. LOL

3.lolololololollipop


GreyhawK: I wouldn't have to recycle the same old arguments of people wouldn't state the same old lame stuff. See, it's a nasty cycle. capiche?

Huh? So you have to complete a game to say it sucks? That's ludricrous. If I am playing a game, and I think it sucks; I'm gonna stop playing it. Period. I say as long as you don't make statements about the parts of the game you didn't play then you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Why do you think I hate them so much?

Well, granted, but i liked them because they gave me the feeling i was actually exploring, and that i actually travelled to get somewhere. BG2 came up with this console-like gimmick of needing to be told where areas were, and considerably lessened the time that took to travel there.

 

[Dhruin]

Ditto. Technically, large empty areas are a poor design element but the exploration was one of the things I enjoyed about BG1.

 

[triCritical]

Ditto. Technically, large empty areas are a poor design element but the exploration was one of the things I enjoyed about BG1.

While many people feel BG2 was superior then BG1, I did not like it just because it failed to do what BG1 did best. I think what people liked about BG2 the most was the bells and whistles and romances, something I am not to particularly fond of. However, I don't feel that those areas were empy, I think they actually all had the proper density of stuff. That is what made them so good, you would be walking for awhile and then somthing, or somebody would come up and you would be, WHAT THE? I think the western open areas were the most fun to explore.

 

[Volourn]

Tri, stick to speaking for yourself.

 

[Gvaz Elite]

All you people

You people make me sick. You are so immature with your ideals on what is good and what isn't. ughh. : :evil:
>>>Firstly, just because KOTOR is turn based doesn't make it a bad game. all good rpgs are usually turn based.
>>>Plus NWN is AWSOME. I dont know what you are on but its a great game. you people have no patience.
>>>also, there is not that much combat in KOTOR actually. I thought there needed to be more levels. 20 was just not enough on NWN or KOTOR. needs to be able to get to level 100. there was enough combat per area, but there needed to be more stuff.
>>>it cannot be as realistic to have people's arms be dismembered or heads cut off, that would be too easy, you go through the level, swing, swing, force storm, every one is dead. plus that would be more programming for bioware and it doesnt need to be "to the paper" correct.
>>>KOTOR should get more than an "C+" I am currently writing a review on it and the only thing that annoys me is, even with the Xbox hard drive, it takes so darn long to load and save. WAY TOO LONG! another thing is the excessive amount of talking. yeah the voice acting is great and there could be more that they say, but it's too much.
>>>and refering to what RPG dot said, yeah this game is one of the best I have ever played, I am about 23 hours into the game and almost have the 5 star map and everything. It is the one that makes me tell people what I did even though they could care less.
whatever then I know im right in my own world.

 

[Voss]

Hmm. You're trying to hard.
When trolling, its best to appear like you honestly don't know you're going to piss people off. (Or completely throwing everything to the winds, and working through all the angst and rage in your life).
Its also good to know your audience. This is definitely the wrong site to be suggesting that people are saying turned based is bad.
Oh, and you should work on active posts. Digging up something 4 weeks later that no one really cares about anymore, its harder to get them incensed about the topic.

To sum up, rather than pissing people off, you're like a autistic midget troll that tries to dry hump some old lady's leg while drooling on itself. More amusing than actually offensive. Well, at least for the people watching.