Interview DW Bradley: TB combat plagues games!

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Dungeon Lords; DW Bradley; Heuristic Park Inc.

<a href=http://www.gamespot.com>GameSpot</a> posted an <a href=http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/dungeonlords/preview_6100790.html>interview</a> with <b>D.W. Bradley</b> about an experiment otherwise known as <a href=http://www.heuristicpark.com>Dungeon Lords</a>, a game that's supposed to combine <i>a deep 3D RPG with real-time arcade-style fighting action</i>.
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<blockquote>GS: Dungeon Lords seems to play like a fast-paced action game, but the game will also attempt to have the depth of a serious role-playing game? Why the decision to go this direction, and how do you strike a balance?
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DWB: Dungeon Lords is a serious role-playing game! And this is what puts Dungeon Lords in a new class of RPG. Dungeon Lords is extraordinarily simple and fun from the very first moment, and yet it's still a deeply involved and well-crafted RPG. In Dungeon Lords, we have created an RPG that engages the player with the excitement and thrills of superior action elements without sacrificing the breadth and detail of a true RPG. It's the game I've always wanted to make, and it represents the culmination of everything I've learned designing both RPG and computer games for the past 25 years. From the very onset of Dungeon Lords, players are immersed in a true-to-life fantasy role-playing universe, and each player progresses in the game in a completely individualized manner, where each moment and every action involves the player's immediate decisions and responses. <u>And best of all, Dungeon Lords is a game totally devoid of the mindless and repetitious point-and-click or turn-based combat or fatiguing micromanagement that--to this day--continues to plague almost all other RPG games</u>. </blockquote>Don't forget the tyranny of choices! That plagues games too.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.rpgdot.com">RPG Dot</A>

 

[Volourn]

Funny that all the stuff he says *plagues* games actually are what players want. Poor little dude.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

This is the same shit PR people say, he didnt give any example how all these "superior" ideas are going to take place.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

And best of all, Dungeon Lords is a game totally devoid of the mindless and repetitious point-and-click or turn-based combat or fatiguing micromanagement that--to this day--continues to plague almost all other RPG games.

Damn it; if there's something I want in a game it's fatiguing micromanagement! I mean, come on; it makes me look like your average gamer-Ben Johnson when I'm clicking around with hairstyles and shit!

I wouldn't say it plagues almost all RPG games since almost all RPG games have taken a liking for the new, revolutionary pause n' click-system together with the normal three truckloads of inventory-system. Ask me; any developer making room for fatiguing micromanagement and mindless turnbased combat is one helluva hero.

 

[Nightjed]

This is the same shit PR people say, he didnt give any example how all these "superior" ideas are going to take place.

i know how, theyll rip off dungeon siege, they already ripped half of the name

 

[Barghest]

Mr DW needs a punch in the back of the head...

Poor misguided fool.

 

[Volourn]

You deserve a punch in the back of the head for threatening violence over someone's opinion over silly games.

If you need someone to get your aggresion out come to the follwoing address:

644 Lakeshore Dr Unit 36, North Bay, Ontario, Kanada.

 

[Country_Gravy]

This guy has his head firmly lodged in his ass.

I bet that smells bad.

 

[Barghest]

Do you do hand-jobs then Volourn?

 

[Sol Invictus]

Mr DW thinks that he can implement console-style action into an RPG instead of the usual point and click/pause and play style of play, or the Turn-Based goodness that I love. We'll see how he does. If it's as bad as Joan of Arc I'm going to fly over to his offices just to laugh at his face.

 

[Volourn]

If you are HOT, sure.

 

[EvoG]

You know what the best part is...the Japanese market is still rich with TB games...ON CONSOLES! FrontMission 4 anyone?

Oh well...when it comes to making the 'next big hit', TB may not be the way to go to capture massive market share...but fuck why does EVERYONE need to be the next big game and sell OMG millions of copies? Lower you fucking production costs, make a fun game and you can be as successful developer. Aim high with ambitious, revolutionary design and spend millions of dollars REQUIRING massive sales and be prepared to fail.

Cheers

 

[Transcendent One]

:shock: Oh dear... (both to Volourn and the dumbass Dungeon Lords guy)

 

[Voss]

So, you don't use the mouse for combat? Is it keyboard strokes? Or maybe a joystick.

I'm becoming more convinced that Bradley should join Gary Gygax in the ranks of 'People that were once relevant in their industries, but don't know enough about current trends (and what gamers actually want) and so should just shut the fuck up.'

One line dialogue, simple health meter, common, rare and unique items, and charges for spells. Yeah. Fascinating shit, there. Oh plus:

In the game, you’ll use the right mouse button to block attacks with your shield, while your left mouse button will attack with your current weapon.

So you won't necessarily be pointing and clicking, but you will be clicking...

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

And best of all, Dungeon Lords is a game totally devoid of the mindless and repetitious point-and-click or turn-based combat or fatiguing micromanagement that--to this day--continues to plague almost all other RPG games.

....

I must've missed something there, Mr. Bradley. Aren't you working on a game that has real-time arcade-style fighting action? Now, unless i'm wrong here - which can be a possibility - fighting games (specially arcade-style fighting games), require constant interaction from the player. Some people even call them 'button-mashers', because they have to quickly make combinations ('combos', if you will) to perform moves, by pressing buttons.

Now, let's backtrack a little. You're working on a game which requires quick input from players given it's arcade-like fighting action. Doesn't arcade-like fighting action play the same as mindless and repetitious point-and-click? After all, don't you need to give players a control method to pull off immersive combat maneuveurs like dragon punches, hell blocks and other wire-fu malarkey that reacts quickly to their input? After all, if it's a realtime combat extravaganza, it needs constant player interaction, right?

Everything in the game is based upon using the combined skills and abilities of both the player and his or her character hero. Dungeon Lords puts complete control of all character actions in the world at the player's fingertips. We let the player do the actual fighting, blocking, dodging, and so on (...)

Right.

So, let me get this straight. You're developing a mindless and repetitious point-and-click combat system that moves away from the mindless and repetitious point-and-click combat system? All the control at the player's fingertips, without clicking incessantly? In realtime?


My experience in the gaming industry is not - and likely will never be - as big as yours, but as unexperienced as i am, i can tell you first-hand that that is utter bullshit. I can only hope that whatever the future holds for the CRPG genre, that it isn't tainted by this kind of thing. Everytime i see this kind of stupidity, a kitten dies, and my admitedly romantic dream of joining the gaming industry withers.

 

[Barghest]

Thanks for the offer Volourn, but I'm not sure if you are Male/Female/Failed medical experiment. I'm not into hairy hands/tentacles you know.

I still think Mr DW is a dumb-ass for his comments.

 

[Volourn]

So do i; but he's not worth the trouble of bloodying one's hands.

 

[triCritical]

Kind of funny since Wizards And Warriors did not have a TB, and it sucked!!! I think DW Bradley has had good ideas, but the best Wizardry combat were the games he had no part in.

 

[Sol Invictus]

So, you don't use the mouse for combat? Is it keyboard strokes? Or maybe a joystick.

I'm becoming more convinced that Bradley should join Gary Gygax in the ranks of 'People that were once relevant in their industries, but don't know enough about current trends (and what gamers actually want) and so should just shut the fuck up.'

Add Warren Spector to that list.

 

[Snuffles]

And best of all, Dungeon Lords is a game totally devoid of the mindless and repetitious point-and-click or turn-based combat or fatiguing micromanagement that--to this day--continues to plague almost all other RPG games.

I consider this quote as saying the game won't involve:
1) mindless and repetitious point-and-click
2) turn-based combat
3) fatiguing micromanagement

Which means it still can involve:
1) point-and-click, provided it isn't mindless and repetitious
2) micromanagement, as long as it isn't fatiguing

When you look at the quote in that way, it seems a pretty normal boast to make about a game someone is trying to sell, the only issue is the way turn based combat has no qualifying statement before it, if the quote had said "tediously drawn out turn-based combat" or something similar instead it would have been perfect.

 

[Sol Invictus]

What worries me about this game are the controls. Action games are terrific, really terrific in fact, when done properly - but they're absolutely horrendous when the game is unreactive to your input. Getting 'stuck' on things, or missing an attack even though the enemy's right in front of me because of some clipping issue are complete game killers. It's the reason why I hate games like King of Fighters series and Street Fighter III. When an enemy launches some kind of super attack, or a grapple on you, you suddenly lose all ability to do anything. When he hits you and you're recoiling from his attack, you lose all ability to do anything. It's just plain wrong.

Really, if you're under attack you should damn well beable to launch a counter-attack simply by clicking a small, very easy combination on your mouse (or perhaps just pressing the 3rd mouse button) instead of going through some ridiculous combination of moves in order to do so.

Taking away control from the player is annoying no matter what form it is in. It's annoying in in-game cutscenes you're forced to watch, and it's even more annoying when your control is taken away from you just because you get hit. I don't mind being in a 'stunned' state, annoying as that is - it's a valid attack, but you should be able to counterattack regular assaults.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I consider this quote as saying the game won't involve:
1) mindless and repetitious point-and-click

(...)

Which means it still can involve:
1) point-and-click, provided it isn't mindless and repetitious

That would be a possibility, except that real-time arcade-style fighting action generally uses mindless and repetitve point-and-click. It becomes repetitive when the players are given moves and attacks which are highly efficient (as they'll keep using them in combat over and over); and it becomes mindless (in the sense of it being a no-brainer, instead of an activity which doesn't need cerebral activity) because the combination of a combo-driven combat scheme mixed with realtime combat requires moves which are accessible to players, therefore, easy to use.

 

[Country_Gravy]

You deserve a punch in the back of the head for threatening violence over someone's opinion over silly games.

If you need someone to get your aggresion out come to the follwoing address:

644 Lakeshore Dr Unit 36, North Bay, Ontario, Kanada.

Wow! Posting your address twice in one week, huh?

Are you getting lonely in your arctic tundra town?

To your credit, though, it is pretty lame to threaten violence over some game, but I don't think it was meant to be taken seriously.

 

[Barghest]

Of course not. I was being sarcastic. Do you really think that I'm sad enough to make death threats in the CODEX?

Volourn obviously thought I was...

 

[Volourn]

LOL If you thought I thought you were being seriously you have pretty crappy thoguhts. i post my address 'cause I *know* youa ren't serious. You are all words on a silly screen. All words, no action.