Interview Van Buren corpse robbing with Sean over at DAC

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Fallout 3 (Van Buren); Sean Reynolds

<A href="http://www.duckandcover.cx/">Duck and Cover</A> has an <A href="http://www.duckandcover.cx/content.php?id=62">interview</A> with <A href="http://www.seankreynolds.com/">Sean K. Reynolds</a> about the failed <b>Fallout 3</b> thing otherwise known as <i>Van Buren</i>. Here's one question and a tiny part of the answer:
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<blockquote><b>11. There have been some criticisms levelled at Van Buren, such as the amount of technology in the game (space platforms, multiple vehicles), when many say that the setting should be as devoid of technology as possible. How do you respond to that? </b>
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Vehicles? There are millions of cars on the road in California alone; it's absurd to think that a person with the know-how couldn't put together a working vehicle with the proper parts, especially givet the number of cars out there. Arizona census 2002 population is over 5,000,000 people ... if that's 4 people per household and 40% of households have at least 1 vehicle (also according to census data, which actually has 40% of households at 1 vehicle per, 38% at 1 vehicle per, 15% at 3 or more per), that's FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND cars in Arizona as of 2002. You don't think that in four states, maybe two million cars, there aren't four vehicles that Science Boy can't piece together? </blockquote>
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Let's see. The cars are at least 180 years old. The parts for the cars stopped being made around the time the Earth got carpet nuked, so that would make them 180 years old too. It's cute that he looked up all that irrelevant census stuff, though.
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[Voss]

Not to mention that the 2002 census isn't necessarily relevant. Start from an alternate 1950, which may have been intelligent enough to put an emphasis on public transportation rather than individual's being almost required to have their own personal vehicle. Add in a serious fuel crunch even before the war...

Why is this stuff even coming up, anyway? VB is dead, dead, really most sincerely dead.

 

[Whipporowill]

Bwahaha. I like his answer to the first question, considering the Ping Pong pic Saint had me do.

 

[Bobbin]

Let's see. The cars are at least 180 years old. The parts for the cars stopped being made around the time the Earth got carpet nuked, so that would make them 180 years old too. It's cute that he looked up all that irrelevant census stuff, though.

It's not like after 180 years people started discovering the cars. Just after the war some people might have repaired some of them and they were always kept in good condition. Broken parts can often be taken from other cars and the climate at the east coast (few humidity) would help to conserve them.

Btw, I still like to read VB stuff although it hurts... a little bit.

 

[mr. lamat]

if a cuban can keep a ford fairlaine running with some parts from a washing machine, there are bound to be people who can keep the cars in fallout running.

 

[Briosafreak]

The interview is great, and Saint HAD to pick that part and leave all the others with great stuff :D

But thanks to Saint, since he started to invent stuff on Van Buren i got much more material, by devs ripping their hairs saying "where does he gets those things" and trying to prove him wrong, a good deal all around.

Sammael is saying that Bethesda got material from Van Buren, but i know their story will be diferent, wonder what will be.

I still miss the chance to find Harold one more time in Van Buren

 

[almondblight]

What the hell? He goes off on several paragraphs about how people would obviously be able to piece together old technology, especially in all this time, how it would almost seem absurd that someone wouldn't be able to put together a car, and then he says that everyone outside the NCR and BoS would only have pipe guns. Is it just me, or is a gun a much simpler device than a car, particularly a microfusion car?

As someone pointed out earlier, one of the big problems with cars is that if they are as easy to get as he says, wouldn't more people have them? And then if more people ad them, wouldn't the wasteland start to become more colonized?

I also like this:

"As a whole, what do you think of the Fallout fan base?"

"Honestly? Many (if not most) of the ones that frequent the forums are rude, rabid, and happy to argue about tiny little details."

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Hey welcome almondblight. Its good to know you've managed to migrate from GameFAQs over to here

 

[Monte Carlo]

A few points:

1. Codex dogma (don't worry, it's all part of the charm) dictates that poor old SKR, being a D&D guy and not a Fallout guy, will never get cut the slack that Boyarski "FPS Boy" gets when he goes cross-genre. ::shrugs::

2. So, you can restore an automobile. So what? It's about as germaine an argument as encumbrance, eating and using the bathroom in a fantasy CRPG. Fallout has supermutants, ghouls, robots and all sorts of other funky sci-fi shit that's utterly un-scientific. So why the big fuss about cars. A clue might be to look at point 1 (above). Hey, looking at some recent Troika screenies I'd say that boobs like that, even utilizing current plastic surgery techniques, are less credible than 180-year old cars pootering about.

3. Yeah, guns are a piece of piss to make. What's a shotgun? Length of pipe, a hammer, a cartridge and a nail. Easy. Funnily enough, like cars, it's the "fuel" that's a bit tougher. I'd imagine that fuel cells/ diesel/ ammo would be the problem a hundred years after ground zero.

4. I understand the pain about Van Buren, I really do. Even I understand the Bethseda's Falloutwind will suck like a pro on Navy day.

Cheers
MC

 

[plin]

Some of that stuff sounded really good. I hope bethesda is able to take some of the good things and utilize them.

From some things, it sounded like van buren could have bested the first two fallouts in many ways (I mean this only if it wasn't rushed, and it had proper financing, better publisher/company etc.), and failed in some as well. I just get the feeling that some of it was more thought-out than the first two, like the backround story really sounded good (not nescisarilly the main plot, I just mean NPCs, locations, the town you could buy, factions, the mormon story/place. It just seems more complex maybe than the other games. But It's just my meaningless opinion, so take it as that, like always).

 

[Spazmo]

Hey, MC, way to ignore all criticism that's been levelled at Bloodlines. Me, I think it'll be neat, although it runs the risk of being gothy and goofy. Many others around here are wary of its FPS nature. And go have a look at the newsposts about Vampire. Particularly, single out the word "Jiggletech". Bloodlines hasn't been getting any slavish fanboyism.

Also, VB wasn't going to be cross genre (unless you mean the leap from fantasy to sci-fi, which is irrelevant as both MCA [PS:T and his FO2 stuff] and Tim Cain [Arcanum and Fallout] have both made neat games in both types of settings). What some take issue with is significant discrepancies with Fallout canon and the butchering of Fallout into a real time combat scheme. Me, I don't really mind the cars--like SKR says, five working vehicles through four states is plausible, though I'd be doubly happy if it were confirmed that players needed to modify the cars to run on fuel cells before they could be used since internal combustion cars in Fallout is just dumb.

But the space station doesn't really fit. I agree a hundred times with Brios that it's a really neat plot idea and the possiblities for the endings are really fascinating, but it doesn't work for Fallout.

And MC, if Codexers are guilty of leaping to the conclusion that anything non-Troika is bad (an assumption that's a total crock--like I said above, opinions are divided if generally optimistic on Bloodlines and there's been considerable debate among regulars on whether or not the space station is okay), there's a corresponding group of Codex detractors that are guilty of leaping to the conclusion that Codex regulars are OMG BIASED! Me, I'd rather not be lumped in with Gromnir, but hey, your choice.

 

[plin]

4. I understand the pain about Van Buren, I really do. Even I understand the Bethseda's Falloutwind will suck like a pro on Navy day.

Cheers
MC

Considering you can't spell the developer/publisher's name right, and you have yet to play, see a screenshot, hear anything about content, read a preview, read a review, talk to someone who has seen or played it, or have done really anything at all other than make some half-assed assumption about the future. I'd say you don't understand shit cap-i-tan.

 

[Jed]

I think the cars argument is more about what's appropriate for the setting, not what's "scientific." That said, huge jiggling boobs are well within the canon of Vampire: The Masquerade.

 

[Avin]

i would say: REMOVE that damn cars of da game. never liked them. mc has a point, supermutants has as many logic as working cars.

 

[rasta_kid]

That's a really informative interview.
Every time I see an interview like this, it just makes me sadder when I think of VB.

I like the idea of not being "the one who makes it all right for the world". We've done that with the vault dweller and the chosen one.

 

[almondblight]

Hey welcome almondblight. Its good to know you've managed to migrate from GameFAQs over to here

Hey, thanks, didn't know I was being watched... But yeah, I thought I was the only one thaat disliked NWN until I came here, and the fact that there are Spiderweb fans is just icing on the cake.

Oh, I forgot my main objection to 5 different vehicles. As plin said, some of the stuff they said they were gonna be adding (like the "PC town") sounded cool to read about, but I'm not sure how well it would fit into the game. The car in FO2 seemed pretty pointless, and I'm not sure how all these vehicles, or the town, would really add to the gameplay, just as I'm not sure how much building up a town would add. If I wanted to play SimCity I would play it, if I play a FO3 it's because I want a solid RPG. And though the foundation made by Fallout was good, there was more than enough room for improvement in that aspect of the game.

Also, I don't think it would be too hard to make ammunition, at least not for non-energy weapons. My ex-roommate was in the special forces and they taught those guys how to make gunpowder from scratch, I think after 160 years in the wastes people would probably be able to make bulletts without too much trouble. I think it's kinda wierd that there idea of technology is that people are able to make cars but can't make anything more advanced than a pipe gun. I can imagine a raider driving full speed toward the player with his buddy out the window trying to hit him with a spear.

 

[Monte Carlo]

Considering you can't spell the developer/publisher's name right, and you have yet to play, see a screenshot, hear anything about content, read a preview, read a review, talk to someone who has seen or played it, or have done really anything at all other than make some half-assed assumption about the future. I'd say you don't understand shit cap-i-tan.

OMG! YOU ATTACKED MY SPELLYNG!

Trust me, it'll suck. The voices I pick up on my tin-foil Napoleon hat told me.

 

[Monte Carlo]

there's a corresponding group of Codex detractors that are guilty of leaping to the conclusion that Codex regulars are OMG BIASED! Me, I'd rather not be lumped in with Gromnir, but hey, your choice.

Spaz, you don't get it. I'm not a "detractor." But I did read that news piece, scroll down and read the different tone given to Bloodlines. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with it: RPGCodex has a house style and a house line and I dig that even if I don't always agree with it. So pointing it out is nothing more than a point to be agreed or disagreed with.

As for Sean Reynolds, my point about "cross-genre" is that he gets a tough time for being an ex-WotC staffer and D&D wonderboy. I've not seen anything he's done in the CRPG arena but I like some of his pen & paper stuff a lot (Lords of Darkness for 3e FR is pretty cool IMO and has lots of crunchy stuff that could work well in a CRPG).

Cheers
MC

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

if a cuban can keep a ford fairlaine running with some parts from a washing machine, there are bound to be people who can keep the cars in fallout running.

Would people in the wasteland still be able to find working washing machine parts several decades after the Great War as well. I wonder.

 

[RGE]

What the hell? He goes off on several paragraphs about how people would obviously be able to piece together old technology, especially in all this time, how it would almost seem absurd that someone wouldn't be able to put together a car, and then he says that everyone outside the NCR and BoS would only have pipe guns. Is it just me, or is a gun a much simpler device than a car, particularly a microfusion car?

As someone pointed out earlier, one of the big problems with cars is that if they are as easy to get as he says, wouldn't more people have them? And then if more people ad them, wouldn't the wasteland start to become more colonized?

I think his argument was that among all those cars, enough working pieces would be around for someone to piece together a few cars, but not enough for everyone or even enough for every person in BoS and NCR who's got a decent gun. Thus there are way more guns than cars, even in Van Buren. But perhaps there should be even more guns? I just know that I didn't much care for guns becoming loot that was sold for bottlecaps, but perhaps all those guns were needed for the suspension of disbelief.

Personally I'm in the brahmin cart camp, but I have no problems with the space station. Go, technological contrasts, go! Mixing extreme high tech with extreme low tech is cool, and it's one of the reasons I really like Tatooine. And why I like most post-apocalyptic stuff too.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

if a cuban can keep a ford fairlaine running with some parts from a washing machine, there are bound to be people who can keep the cars in fallout running.

Would people in the wasteland still be able to find working washing machine parts several decades after the Great War as well. I wonder.

If they can make vertibirds and power armour there shouldn't be a problem with a few cars. If they can keep a nuclear power plant and an oil tanker running I don't see them cannibalising a few clapped out cars and creating a running machine or four being a huge problem. Even if the car parts from the past have alll rusted to hell they could machine new ones from reclaimed steel, they may not be able to get old ones running but whats stopping them from building a few electric cars from scratch. It would be restricted to the powers that have the tech, Brotherhood or NCR but it wouldn't be impossible.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Hey, thanks, didn't know I was being watched...

Not really being watched. I simply remember your name from the Fallout 3 boards I'm GoblinKing over there, by the way.

 

[Crazy Tuvok]

Cars and such: *four* cars doesn't bother me a bit. It is well within the tech grasp of the Fo world to be able to put together a working automobile tho perhaps not that working ones would have remained from before The War. As long as it doens't become Mad Max or FOT I have no problem with that whatsoever. AS pointed out above PA, a nuke plant, vertibirds, electricity blah blah blah the various and cundry scientists and doctors and books all lead to it being reasonable that several someones could cobble together/create a few working car-like devices.

A fucking space station!? Now that is one shitty and I mean SHITTY bad stupid motherfucking idea. A space station. Jebus it boggles the mind.

All that said, I would prefer that all kinds of tech (including cars) be scarce. I much prefer the idea of good weps and armor being hard to find. Not just from a standpoint of atmosphere, to which I think it adds immeasurably, but as a player. When everybody by mid-end game is running around with PA, a trunkload of ammo for an armory of weps it just aint that fun for me. I like the idea of a wasteland that is savage and hardscrabble. The struggle for survival not the struggle to upgrade.

this is why I loved the idea of scarce ammo and guns and fought for them constantly over on the ole BIS/Iplay boards. One of the things they should have borrowed from Road Warrior was this. Knowing that Max had limited ammo and unreliable ammo at that made it much more important as to when he used it. It also, by virtue of his owning it moved him up the bad ass chain. He didn't walk around in +5 PA of Helm - he had a piece of shit sawed off. I dug that vibe.

whatever. FO3 definetely had some potential, but really who gives a shit now what they were *going* to do. I am agnostic on FO3 as done by Bethesda. If they can get the feeling right (frankly see FO1) I am willing to forgive some misteps.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

If they can make vertibirds and power armour there shouldn't be a problem with a few cars.

You're refering to the Enclave. That's what makes the Enclave a SPESHUL THRET, they could make new technology. They made vertibirds and advanced power armor. It was their gimmick.

Cars and such: *four* cars doesn't bother me a bit. It is well within the tech grasp of the Fo world to be able to put together a working automobile tho perhaps not that working ones would have remained from before The War. As long as it doens't become Mad Max or FOT I have no problem with that whatsoever. AS pointed out above PA, a nuke plant, vertibirds, electricity blah blah blah the various and cundry scientists and doctors and books all lead to it being reasonable that several someones could cobble together/create a few working car-like devices.

That's the problem.

Fallout: No cars, period, evar.
Fallout 2: One car.
Fallout 3: Five cars.

Where do they go from there for Fallout 4? Fallout 5?

 

[mr. lamat]

no cars, one car, five cars... each game does happen close to eighty years after the previous installment though. god forbid the game world evolve. i've never seen a human adapt and overcome, either. in two hundred years, america went from being a piss-poor colony of the british to the biggest badasses on the block. to say that the people in fallout's universe would have done any less is a disservice to the species.

if this game had been made, i bet we all would have "yeeped" when we found out we were travelling to a spacestation. none of us, sans pre-reading a walkthrough, would have expected it... and since it was optional, we probably would have had our characters fight like hell to get there, if it was in their role.

cain wrote some design docs twelve years ago and they were different. they were good. they were also five pages long. gameworld's evolve. does a spacestation make sense in one of those lame majick, faeries and dwarves games? no. is it plausible in fallout? hell yes... designers should challenge a players preconception of story. fallout is more suited to winding up on a spacestation than it is to revisiting the den.