Preview Boiling Point overview at Xenus HQ

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Boiling Point: Road to Hell

<a href=http://www.xenus-hq.net>Xenus HQ</a> had a chance to write an exclusive preview of <a href=http://www.deep-shadows.com/en/index.php>Boiling Point</a>, a Stalker-looking first person game that claims to be an action RPG (what game doesn't these days?) Anyway, turns out that nobody there can write, so they have posted an <a href=http://www.xenus-hq.net/index.php?action=fullpreviews&id=6>overview</a> instead.
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<blockquote>RPG stats :
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*) A full page of statistics and your reputation regarding each faction
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*) Stats are raised when used , lowered when not used ( how much you can carry, swimming, etc... )
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No XP points, no levelling !
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I think this provides good immersion : you can see the cursors for each stat moving along a slider going from 0 to max in you stat page anytime.
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Factions :
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*) Incidents with faction members are "local" => if you kill someone and nobody sees it, no problem.
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*) If you continue to kill more people of the same faction ( or if there are witnesses ? ), your reputation with the faction will diminished more.
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*) you can see the face and faction (and your reputation ) of NPCs when near them : this shows up on the top-right of the screen.
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Dialogs :
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Standard RPG dialogues
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Each answer is preceded by a function key , like :
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[F1] ok. I want to buy it
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[F2] what is this ?
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[F3] can you tell me (...)
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[F4] bye
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( I've seen dialogues going as far as [F11] !! )
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<u>In the end, it's a unique, huge and ambitious game with *lots* of stuff.</u></blockquote>
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I didn't know that Atari deals with 10-year olds
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.bluesnews.com/">Blue's News</A>

 

[Jebus]

MY GOD IT'S SO COMPLICATED AND IMMERSIVE

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

So, how fast to "unused stats" lower when "not used"? This is one feature I've never really cared much for. If I'm carrying a decent load in my backpack, that should be enough for me to maintain my strength. Maybe I'm not building it, but maintaining should be easy. Now, if you become a complex couch potato, then sure, lose strength at a decent rate over the course of months!

The same thing goes for intelligence. I can see unused skills perhaps dropping after *months* of them not being used, depending on what they are, but intelligence? No way. How would you not use something like charisma if you talk to people?

 

[Spazmo]

Stats are raised when used

I hate that kind of system.

lowered when not used

But I hate this even more.

 

[Vault Dweller]

The same thing goes for intelligence. I can see unused skills perhaps dropping after *months* of them not being used, depending on what they are, but intelligence? No way.

Way. Look at the reviewer.

 

[dojoteef]

The game looks to have some very nice features, but it sure doesn't sound like an RPG. It seems to mix genres a lot. It might have some RPGish elements, but that doesn't make it an RPG. It's like VD posted regarding Brian Fargo's interview:

The tone of the new The Bard's Tale is much more humor-oriented than the original. Did you ever worry that might rub more-serious RPG fans the wrong way?

...What was important was to deliver a real RPG that was long (40 hours), had replayability, and offered all the level increases, stats, and so on that people expect. The humor is a bonus.

40 hours? Didn't GameSpot max out at 16? Btw, cute RPG definition: stats, level increases, and so on.

The game sounds very much like Deus Ex 1. Which I thought was great. I just hope it has as much freedom as that game did for solving quests, etc. I just can't call any game that doesn't let the player choices have an effect on the story an RPG. Otherwise their is only one role to play, and just about every game allows for that. I mean pretty soon you're going to tell me that games like Dungeon Siege are RPGs.

 

[FireWolf]

Why can't people stay away from the whole "RPG elements" thing. It's just a buzz phrase applied in a half-hearted fashion to any game which has an increasing stat.

 

[Screaming_life]

Why can't people stay away from the whole "RPG elements" thing. It's just a buzz phrase applied in a half-hearted fashion to any game which has an increasing stat.

hmm.....

- 30 stats which affect the player and his skills
- Dialogue trees
- Talk to whoever you want
- Trade
- Upgrade weapons
- Repair weapons
- Multiple ways to complete missions
- Use of plants for healing
- A living world
- Factions and your dynamic relationship to them
- Complete freedom of movement

These are just a few...... they seem quite RPG to me!
This is not a half hearted attempt at an RPG, i've been following this game for a while now and it is amazing how little attention it gets......Most people see screens and think, well it's doesn't look as nice as STALKER, so it must be crap but they completely fail to understand that this is a 625sqkm area with no loading screens! you can fit about 20 STALKERs on this map!

I'm so surprised to come to an RPG forum and see these comments above (not all), have you even read about this game? you can't skim over the details of this game and expect to know everything about it.

This game seems to me to be a mix of Morrowind, Gothic 2, Deus Ex and GTA3.

This is a world which makes sense, it doesn't have cars because it wants to be like GTA3, it has them because it makes sense, you have a huge map and it's not fantasy so you can't have teleportation so you need a way to travel long distances.

The huge freedom in the game isn't just to be like morrowind, it's because this is how all games should be - i don't think any "proper" rpg comes close to the freedom of this game, even morrowind

Just because it has elements of action doesn't mean it is not an RPG.
RPG flows through all of this game's features

I'm sorry for the rant, i just think this is the most ambitious game i've ever seen, it is made by a small Ukrainian company, this is there debut game! they are not Bioware with their hundreds of employees and yet they still have the same basic structure for every game they make.
This game is not following predefined rules, and should be commended for it.

 

[dojoteef]

hmm.....

- 30 stats which affect the player and his skills
- Dialogue trees
- Talk to whoever you want
- Trade
- Upgrade weapons
- Repair weapons
- Multiple ways to complete missions
- Use of plants for healing
- A living world
- Factions and your dynamic relationship to them
- Complete freedom of movement

These are just a few...... they seem quite RPG to me!
This is not a half hearted attempt at an RPG, i've been following this game for a while now and it is amazing how little attention it gets......Most people see screens and think, well it's doesn't look as nice as STALKER, so it must be crap but they completely fail to understand that this is a 625sqkm area with no loading screens! you can fit about 20 STALKERs on this map!

Well, don't get your panties in a twist! I would just like to say, that I indeed went to the website mentioned in the post, and nowhere does it mention dialog trees, use of plants for healing, etc. It says stuff like:

Dialogs :
Standard RPG dialogues
Each answer is preceded by a function key , like :
[F1] ok. I want to buy it
[F2] what is this ?
[F3] can you tell me (...)
[F4] bye
( I've seen dialogues going as far as [F11] !! )

And since this is the first time I've read about said game, I was posting regarding the preview. Maybe it will turn out to be one of the best games ever. If the preview was written by someone with at least a modicum of intelligence that might have shown through.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I'm so surprised to come to an RPG forum and see these comments above (not all), have you even read about this game? you can't skim over the details of this game and expect to know everything about it.

What's surprising about hearing that a feature like "Unused stats lower themselves" isn't something some people like?

 

[Fez]

The unused stats dropping is a very poor choice. I have never once felt it was a good thing in a game. I've yet to find anyone else taking joy in it either. Unless the game time is in months and several of those months follow Saint's couch suggestion then there is no reason for the drop through lack of use.

The web page shown there seems to be total crap. When I read up on this game a good while back the site was far better and had more images. It must have been "revamped" (ruined) since then as I am sure it is the same game. Looking at the site now it seems hard to believe though.

It has the potential to be good, but a few bad choices can make a gem into a turd pretty fast. I'll be waiting to hear other people's play throughs and a demo at least before I'd consider getting it.

 

[Screaming_life]

From the FAQ:

Q: Can plants be used for healing, trading or killing?
A: Yes.

http://www.xenus-hq.net/index.php?l=en&x_menu=faqs&x_action=xenusfaq.html


Another play test preview

http://www.xenus-hq.net/index.php?action=fullpreviews&id=1

it's all there in......errr.... brown and green!!


And about the raising and lowering of stats, personally i think this is the best method and most realistic. You are right that it can also be unrealistic if stats drop too quickly but this is a balancing issue. Also, this is a world you are playing in and i think levelling up and deciding which stats you want increased would detract from the game.

 

[kris]

And about the raising and lowering of stats, personally i think this is the best method and most realistic. You are right that it can also be unrealistic if stats drop too quickly but this is a balancing issue. Also, this is a world you are playing in and i think levelling up and deciding which stats you want increased would detract from the game.

Take D&D abilities.

Strenght. If you are medium strong or not strong at all it takes months of inactivity for it to be any noticeable change. Really strong guys lose a tad faster, things is (as mentioned) that in a RPG you are almost never inactive.

Agility. Even slower than strenght and both in rising and lowering.

Constiution. Here we have the only winner. The Stamina part of it is what changes the fastest both up and down.

Intelligence. Only serious kicks on the head should make it decrease. Basically it is always active.

Wisdom. You get wiser with age. You don't get less wise because you don't "use" it. Maybe some serious intake of alcohol could change things, but then you where never wise to begin with.

Charisma. Yes, I suppose weeks/months without meeting people would make you lose a bit here. As would not meeting anyone new could also affect it.

 

[lanael]

Vault Dweller :

I didn't know that Atari deals with 10-year olds

Well, re-reading the last sentence, I can understand it looks really childish.
We will change it.

Anyway, turns out that nobody there can write, so they have posted an overview instead.

It seems that the explanation concerning the form of this "overview" was bad.
We will change this too.

Thanks for you critisisms though they look like insults
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[Vault Dweller]

Hey Lanael, nice of you to drop by. Our criticism does look like insults most of the time, so, don't worry about that. Unfortunately, I wasn't specific, so let me correct that.

I have no problem with overview, but in this case it was too brief. I'm sure you know more about this game then we do, but that's the point, you have to present the game to those who've never heard about it.

Some explanations would have been nice. For example, how important stats are? Do you rely on your stats to shoot or on your mouse? Do you use your stats in conversation? How do different stats affect the game?

Now, I read before about the faction system, but how in-depth is it? If faction A doesn't like you, do you just go and do some quests for them and they like you again or what? What are the benefits of factions? Why should I care?

Dialogues. Again, how in-depth they are? Are they simply for buying/selling and getting some info, or can you influence NPCs and actually get what you want without killing? Can you use dialogues to handle quests differently? If yes, what does that depend on? Are there multiple answers? Do they lead to different outcomes? etc

There are many so-called action RPGs, in most cases it means only that the game has stats - Deus Ex, for example. How's that game different?

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Just because it has elements of action doesn't mean it is not an RPG.

True, but it doesn't mean it's an RPG either. Elements of action don't have to dictate that the game isn't an RPG, but then again, RPG elements don't necessarily make a game an RPG itself.

 

[Spazmo]

And about the raising and lowering of stats, personally i think this is the best method and most realistic.

No! Bad! Realism is not fun. Never toss something into a game just because it's 'realistic'. That's the worst possible justification for a design decision.

 

[lanael]

Hey Lanael, nice of you to drop by. Our criticism does look like insults most of the time, so, don't worry about that. .

OK, I'll keep that in mind !

[quote ]
I have no problem with overview, but in this case it was too brief. I'm sure you know more about this game then we do, but that's the point, you have to present the game to those who've never heard about it. [/quote]

In fact, I've only see the game ( all the features I've written down in this "fact sheet" preview ) during 3 hours or so. Way too short if you think about it !
So I couldn't be really more specific, sorry.
And this is an explanation I need to add to this article too.

So, for more details, I think we need to wait for other reviews, official site, videos ( as it seems there won't be any demo due to the size of the map ), new interviews with the developpers, etc..

There are many so-called action RPGs, in most cases it means only that the game has stats - Deus Ex, for example. How's that game different?

I understand you're anxious about that ! It seems, I'm not as hardcore as you regarding RPGs.
The best games ever for me always were "first person RPGs" or "action RPGs" : system shock series, thief series, Deus Ex 1, Gothic series, Ultima IX, etc...
( there's also the old problem with the RPG meaning : does this means "stats, inventory, strong story, converstations" or only "play a role in a game" ? )

Anyway, I think it's close to Deus Ex except that DX had only small maps uncovering as the story goes.
So I can't think of a best description than the one I have written in my article.

To answer your question :
It is different because it has the freedom (huge map) and factions thing of Gothic, the interface of Deux Ex, the "no-leveling" feature of Morrowind, the combats of Far Cry, and the use of all in-game vehicles of Operation Flashpoint all in a single game.

 

[Vault Dweller]

No! Bad! Realism is not fun. Never toss something into a game just because it's 'realistic'. That's the worst possible justification for a design decision.

Besides, it's not really realistic. I doubt that the in-game events take years, likely a few months tops. You can learn to shoot decently, to drive, etc in that time, but it's not enough time for you to start forgetting how things work.

 

[Vault Dweller]

... there's also the old problem with the RPG meaning : does this means "stats, inventory, strong story, converstations" or only "play a role in a game" ?

Here is a good discussion if you want to educate yourself
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2543

It is different because it has the freedom (huge map) and factions thing of Gothic, the interface of Deux Ex, the "no-leveling" feature of Morrowind, the combats of Far Cry, and the use of all in-game vehicles of Operation Flashpoint all in a single game.

So, what makes it an RPG then?

 

[lanael]

Here is a good discussion if you want to educate yourself
http://www.rpgcodex.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2543

yeah, good discussion indeed...
From it I retain this :

I don't think that you can define what an RPG is. You know what it is when you play it; it's a very subjective thing that way.

So, what makes it an RPG then?

I guess I had to make a subjective answer !
For me, it is a RPG because it has :
stats, story, interaction, freedom, first-person, exploration...

Or an objective answer instead :
Maybe it is a RPG, maybe not.
Whatever its genre, it's a game I wanna play.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Maybe it is a RPG, maybe not. Whatever its genre, it's a game I wanna play.

Let's leave it at that then. Anyway, if you ever get the answers to the questions I asked about RPG elements in this game, let us know.

 

[lanael]

no problem, you hardcore CPRG player !

 

[Screaming_life]

No! Bad! Realism is not fun. Never toss something into a game just because it's 'realistic'. That's the worst possible justification for a design decision.

Besides, it's not really realistic. I doubt that the in-game events take years, likely a few months tops. You can learn to shoot decently, to drive, etc in that time, but it's not enough time for you to start forgetting how things work.

OK, point taken, i can understand why people don't like it.

But by realistic i didn't mean that it was just like real life. All i meant was that it makes the game more believable, ok ok ok i know it's not realistic to loose loads of strength in a month etc. but how long you play a game is different to what it represents in game and i don't just mean in terms of time. If you have taken part in an epic quest, it doesn't feel like just a weeks work!

but in terms of immersion, i don't think levelling up works, I don't like it in games like Neverwinter where at each level you choose what you want to be better at etc. Far better is Gothic 2 which although was similar in principle kept the immersion factor. You've had experiance so now you are ready to learn new things.

Anyway back to the reduction in skills. I accept that for certain things like strength it is not such a good idea but for other skills it could be a good thing and there is always the possibility that you could re-learn quicker.

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So am i right in thinking that we can conclude that Boiling Point has many elements of RPG but that these alone don't make it an RPG?

If so, at what point could it be considered an RPG?

 

[Vault Dweller]

but in terms of immersion, i don't think levelling up works, I don't like it in games like Neverwinter where at each level you choose what you want to be better at...

While levelling up isn't perfect, a system where skills increase with use aint perfect either. Which one is a lesser evil depends on the point of view. The "learn by doing" system is easily abused and leads to breaking away the very immersion it tries to create. If there is an activity that can bump skills up, like jumping in MW, people will be doing it constantly. In many such games people would use low damage weapons on purpose to hit less but more often. MW didn't have that problem because you could max skills early, but you see my point. In a game like Boiling Point if driving increases your skill, people would be driving around until the skill is maxed, etc.

Anyway back to the reduction in skills. I accept that for certain things like strength it is not such a good idea but for other skills it could be a good thing and there is always the possibility that you could re-learn quicker.

Imo, that adds nothing to gameplay, but forces player to pay more attention to skills that may start decreasing any moment then to the game. It would force people to have a busy daily schedule: must shoot, drive, swim, run, talk to somebody, buy something, etc.

So am i right in thinking that we can conclude that Boiling Point has many elements of RPG but that these alone don't make it an RPG?

Yep.

If so, at what point could it be considered an RPG?

That, once again, depends on who's asking. For some people any game with adjustable stats is an RPG. Personally, I consider a game an RPG when I can play a character of my choice using this character's skills and abilities to handle situation in a manner fitting my character. That's an RPG. A good RPG would make sure that the choices I make affect the gameplay and the gameworld.