Development Info Knights of the Chalice 2 Development Update

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: Heroic Fantasy Games; Knights of the Chalice 2

<p>The Heroic Fantasy Games homepage <a href="http://www.heroicfantasygames.com/FWE/Pages/FWE_Title.htm" target="_blank">has been updated</a> with new info regarding <strong>Knights of the Chalice 2</strong> and its Fantasy World Engine. Info about weapons, armors and classes and more are available.</p>
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<p>Here's a tidbit about the <a href="http://www.heroicfantasygames.com/FWE/Pages/FWE_Sorcerer.htm" target="_blank">sorcerer class</a>, a mix between divine and arcane caster.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Spells: The Sorcerer draws its spells from the spell lists of the Wizard and Cleric. Charisma, Intelligence and Wisdom are all important to the Sorcerer. The Charisma modifier determines the number of bonus spell slots, and the number of spells known at level 1. The Intelligence modifier determines the Difficulty Class of Wizard spells. The Wisdom modifer determines the Difficulty Class of Cleric spells. A Sorcerer can alternate between arcane and divine castings without restriction. Both types of spells count towards the daily limit. A Sorcerer can activate Divine Spell Scrolls and Arcane Spell Scrolls of any spell in the lists of the Paladin, Ranger, Druid, Cleric, Rogue and Wizard.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Overpowered or too dependant on too many different stats?</p>

 

[sheek]

Is it being upgraded to next-gen 24-bit color 640x480 resolution or is reserved that for #3?

 

[Barghest]

He ought to employ a professional artist. The artwork for the classes is utterly horrible.

 

[Jim Cojones]

Trip, disarm, sunder, feint, knockback attack, reach weapons, domain powers for clerics, huge list of spells and psionic powers (~200 wizard spells only)...

I jizzed my pants.

 

[DoomIhlVaria]

Well, the Mystic Theurge prestige class in D&D 3.5 does something similar but it is pretty gimptastic. However, that is because it suffers from a delayed spell progression (since you need to gain some levels in both Wizard and Cleric before taking the prestige class), it has multiple attribute dependencies, and because at the end of the day you can only cast one spell a round without using something like Quicken Spell. This class will need even more attributes to be worth a damn and will still be limited by its number of actions. The trick will be killer spell combos. Like Divine Favor + Righteous Might + Tenser's Transformation (assuming they exist in KotC, haven't had time to give it a try yet). You know, if playing the uber-caster just to give up your casting abilities to become an uber-tank is your thing.

 

[Ogg]

There's nothing really new or original here, but I'm excited like i've rarely been. Fuck yeah! I'm gonna call my first son KotC!

 

[Noddy]

This shit looks amazing. Was to cheap to buy original KoTC (really liked demo too ) but with all the additions (especially added classes) this one's just to perfect not to support.

Although WTF at human females being more dexterous than males. Blatant sexism.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Look at the druid.

 

[Einhander]

Im loving KOTC at the moment..reminds me of the pools of radiance and curse of the azura bonds from when i was about 12 lol..Great game and some cool battles Looking forward to number 2

 

[Ogg]

Look at the druid.

Baleful Polymorph (Alteration. Fortitude save, for 1d6+1 rounds, you turn a living creature into a small animal chosen randomly from the following list: Toad, Duck, Rabbit, Chicken. All have the same stats: single bite attack 1d4, speed 10, str 4, dex 14, con 10. The ability to cast spells is lost only if the victim fails on a second save (willpower). Even if the Will save succeeds, the victim cannot cast vocal spells without Silent Spell. The class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses remain the same. Immunities, SLA, extraordinary and supernatural abilities are lost for the duration. Use of the equipment is also lost for the duration.)

I know it's puerile, but I like this kind of spells.

 

[Havoc]

Sorcerer? A Cleric and Wizard Spellcaster... what the fuck...

 

[Ogg]

Sorcerer? A Cleric and Wizard Spellcaster... what the fuck...

Aw! It's not pure D&D! The horror!

Seriously, this kind of multispecialist class is just logical. Like the ranger is a fighter/druid hybrid. As DoomIhlVaria said, it's just a variation around the idea of the Mystic Theurge.

 

[tehRPness]

This shit looks amazing. Was to cheap to buy original KoTC (really liked demo too ) but with all the additions (especially added classes) this one's just to perfect not to support.

Although WTF at human females being more dexterous than males. Blatant sexism.

Agreed, there's not really any excuse to support this project. It's very RP

 

[Jaesun]

It could have Prosper as the lead artist, but as long as the game-play is sold, I don't give a shit.

 

[PorkaMorka]

Don't leech his ugly concept art, upload it to tinypic, his site is already slow as hell.

Anyway, this is some bull shit.

Considering that Wizards and Clerics only get 4-5 spells of each level.

If you want to cast wizard and cleric spells you should have to dual class or multi class.

 

[deuxhero]

have we seen any screen shots of actucal gameplay yet? THe reason I didn't get hte original is the head tilting graphics.

 

[Drakron]

Well, the Mystic Theurge prestige class in D&D 3.5 does something similar but it is pretty gimptastic. ... The trick will be killer spell combos. Like Divine Favor + Righteous Might + Tenser's Transformation.

The Mystic Theurge was the 3.5 version of the 2nd Ed. AD&D Cleric/Wizard multiclass, of course they had to gimp it since left unchecked it would a spellcasting powerhouse even more broken the old multiclass was.

As for the Sorcerer class ... this is tricky, I can see were that comes from but somehow it feels wrong, the issue for me is Wizard and Sorcerer to me are still the same thing with different names, even 3rd Ed. spin on it felt to me they were trying to make it different but it was still a Wizard, even with slightly different mechanics.

So making Sorcerers having access to the Cleric list does not sit well with me, a lot because its already hard to make people take Clerics beyond the "band-aid" role and because I feel that Clerical spells are divine boons that cannot be simply replaced by magic (BTW, I would allow Wizards to go into healing but costs would be higher that of a identical clerical spell).

 

[deuxhero]

Uh, what are you doing to your cleric that it is a bandaid? You're doing it wrong

Hold Person ho!

 

[Calem Ravenna]

Classes look good enough, though I'm no D&D expert. The mobility of monks and rogues might end up a bit ridiculous with guaranteed tumble.

Implementation of tripping, disarming, reach weapons is great news. My lovely flails, finally you'll be of use. And spiked chain...

Liking the attribute allocation system, though some of the limitations feel weird. But whatever, there are Kobolds and that's awesome.

So far this is an almost guaranteed buy from me. Only thing that can make it or break it is party size. If there are only four characters again, I'll rage. Even if extensive modding tools are in. Really, four characters? That was a very weak point of KotC, although justified with the limited choice of classes.

 

[Fezzik]

Hot damn! This sounds even better than I was expecting. Even without seeing the game in action and knowing how far off it is, how am I supposed to forbear feeling like a youngin' who just heard the ice cream truck now?

 

[deuxhero]

Wait, are Drakes and Mantis Male/Female only or do they share the same stats?


Also, did they remove the other benefits of Mithiral like lowered armor weight and class?

 

[Damned Registrations]

Sorc doesn't seem overpowered to me at all. Doubt I'd even pick one up except for fun/weird parties. Splitting your bonus spells and DC modifiers to different stats is bad enough for one spell set, never mind two. Wizard spells especially are shit if everything makes the saves all the time. Incidently, you'd want dex for all the touch/ranged touch spells and your AC bonus, as well as Con for HP and concentration. So the class can really only dump the Str stat unless yu're focusing entirely on buffs and stuff without saves or hit rolls. And you can only get so much mileage out of web, magic missile, and conjure elementals.

 

[Damned Registrations]

On the other hand, Mantis (Wielding 4 light weapons all enchanted heavily? Fuck yes!) seem quite overpowered, and might make melee worth having on your team. Also, rogues get wizard spell progression like the counterpart to rangers and paladins. With a limited spell list, but still. Mantis rogue should be incredibly powerful; throwing out quad (Or more, you could have all 4 weapons be of speed, plus natrual extra attacks for high BAB) sneak attack damage each round will fuck up even a major enemy like a dragon or demon real fucking quick. Fighters get some cool fighter only perks, but I just can't see them competing well with all the classes with special powers. Rogues get to fucknig walk through enemies later on ffs, should make that flanking bonus easy to get.

 

[Coyote]

Looks great! Will definitely be getting this unless something unexpected comes up.

The sorceror seems pretty powerful at a glance, yes, but he gets fewer high-level spells to compensate for his increased versatility and, as DamnedRegistrations pointed out, is dependent on WIS, INT, and CHA for his spellcasting. This means that if he's going to be effective as a caster against enemies, he'll need to dump STR, DEX, and CON and can't benefit from some of the powerful spell combinations like cleric self-buffs + Tenser's Transformation as much as you might expect without casting extra buffs beforehand, and every round spent casting buffs in KotC is another round for your enemies to pummel on you. And he still won't be as effective as a wizard or cleric, since they get more spells and only need to invest in one ability for their spells. If you go the other way and invest into making him a powerful melee combatant, he'll be gimped as a spell caster and, unlike a cleric, will need to invest several feats so that he can wear some decent armor (and still will have the lower hit dice to deal with). And with no bonus feats like a wizard gets, he's going to be starved for feats as is. Plus, he'll have the limitation of needing to buff up at the start of every combat while your other meleers are already dishing out the hurt, and won't ever have access to some of the more powerful melee feats. The only way I see the sorceror being decent is if you get extremely lucky on ability score rolls, and even then I'm not sure if he'll live up to his apparent potential due to the other issues mentioned (no bonus feats, fewer castings per day, and lacks the armor, hit dice, ability to turn undead, and domain-related bonuses a cleric gets).

As far as versatility goes, I prefer the look of the psionicist, myself. He gets less powerful spells than a cleric or wizard on average, but thanks to a more mana-like casting system, he can tailor the power of his, uh, powers to his needs. A wizard in KotC2 with no bonus spells can cast 4 spells from each level at level 20. A psionicist with no bonus power points can cast 4 powers from each level, plus 1 extra level 9 power and 2 extra level 1 powers - but he can also choose to cast 20 (!) level 9 powers and one level 2 power, 343 level 1 powers, or something in between.

He has to choose a limited number of powers for himself, but the powers he has to choose from seem more versatile than a cleric or wizard spell list alone (well, maybe not a wizard; haven't looked at their new spell list very closely). He has access to several low- to mid-level cleric and wizard and even some druid spell equivalents, damage powers where he can choose the damage type (and by association, saving throw) at will, and a lot of cool unique powers of his own: Greater Swap, Share Pain, Suppress Sword and Armor (wizards get Suppress Sword, but not the Armor part, which seems like it would be more useful; note that the name is misleading, you choose to affect either the weapon or the armor), Fate Link, the Ectoplasmic Cocoon line, [Mass] Death Urge, Limp Hands, Telekinetic Maneuver, Control Body, Catapsi, Accelerated Spell and Power (surprised this is only a 7th-level power), Decerbrate/Microcosm, and Tornado Blast. Also has some interesting spells with similar effects to wizard spells, but more effective in some ways like Dimension Slide (3rd level spell similar to the wizard's fifth-level Dimension Door; can only be cast on self and has a lower range than Dimension Door, but can be cast as a move or free action if needed), [Greater] Delta Waves (sleep cone which isn't dependent on Hit Dice or HP like the wizard's sleep spells), etc.

No metamagic, but many powers allow him to add to the DC, duration, damage, number of targets, etc. for a few extra power points. As alluded to above, the direct damage spells within the "energy" line also allow him to choose between cold, fire, shock, and sonic damage (acid, too, if he invests an extra feat) for no extra cost. This also lets him choose which saving throw the enemy gets to attempt - fortitude for cold, sonic, and acid and reflex for fire and shock. And with the same number of extra feats as a wizard and no metamagic feats to invest in, he should have plenty of feats to go around.

Overall, psionicist may not be the most powerful class in the game (though with the ability to cast several more high-level powers than any other casting class when needed and cast 7 powers every 4 rounds at 13 power points a pop after reaching level 13, it should certainly be able to hold its own), but it seems like it'll be a lot of fun to play.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Also potentially interesting: if wands are light weapons, you could have a mantis wizard or cleric (Better for wizards, with the no armor bit) weilding 3 wands at once and still have a hand free for spellcasting. Complete overkill of course, but very stylish.