Development Info Knights of the Chalice 2 Development Update

[circ]

Well that's better than nothing. I was hoping for a backstab/lockpicker/stealth guy yeah. But backstab/critical hits with ranged (maybe?) isn't half bad.

And editor? Holy shit.

 

[torpid]

Has he released any screenshots yet or do we still not know how the game is going to look exactly, aside from it being high-res and having a top-down perspective?

 

[circ]

I have fewl problems with the hybrid class idea. But calling this a "Sorcerer" just does not make any sense. WTF does being a sorcerer have to do with priestly stuff?! Wizardry 6-8 was bad with those games' "Bishop" class as well. It is like creating a new martial artist class that is a hybrid of the monk and the ranger and calling it a "Necromancer".

I never quite understood why the cast-spells-from-all-schools class was called Bishop in Wiz either. Was there some semi-plausible explanation in the lore or was it just a very silly name for no real reason?

Why is it silly? Under what all defining rule set?

I had never thought about the Bishop class before you mentioned it. So please, tell me about the universal rules, where you got them from and why they so imprinted on your, and other minds.

Perhaps it is because I have played so many CRPG's before where the various classes have been swapped around all over the place. Perhaps it is because of the dearth of decent, old school, turn based tactical CRPG's are around...all I know is that aspects like this where somebody creates their own class type for a Sorceror, and a bit of art is not having any detrimental effect on me...

By all means, enlighten me on the importance of these aesthetics, and why they ruin your experience. Perhaps there is indeed some hidden explanation why these things are so important, while dumbing down, over bloom, playing basically the same FPS game with an ever smaller amount of stats, five thousand times, ala todays CRPG's is just fine and dandy.

The D&D rule set? And also about 5000 years of human history if you want to expand it further.

Back in the 70's and early 80's D&D used to be pretty basic. The classes were simple but they all played differently. Then hoping to expand, designers and suits decided to mix up classes, come up with weird supposedly imaginative shit and so on. This gave us Al-Qadim, Darksun and Planescape etc. It wasn't all bad of course, but it spelled the eventual demise of TSR. Because frankly, western designers should stick to what they know; western myth -- not pick and choose from other cultures they only know about from movies or whatever. There's imagination, and then there's just plain going retarded.

But hey, by all means, if you can suspend belief to encompass anthropomorphic animals of all kinds with all kinds of wondrous powers and ridiculous backstories and shit tasting good or something, then good for you. But in my opinion, less is more and some kind of fantasy logic, works well enough.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

The D&D rule set? And also about 5000 years of human history if you want to expand it further.

Ahahahaha....dear me. The D&D ruleset you say? You realise this isn't a D&D game, yes?...and 5000 years of human history eh? Amusing, very amusing. All those sorcerors running about for 5000 years, using D&D rulesets...

More on this later...

Back in the 70's and early 80's D&D used to be pretty basic. The classes were simple but they all played differently. Then hoping to expand, designers and suits decided to mix up classes, come up with weird supposedly imaginative shit and so on. This gave us Al-Qadim, Darksun and Planescape etc. It wasn't all bad of course, but it spelled the eventual demise of TSR. Because frankly, western designers should stick to what they know; western myth -- not pick and choose from other cultures they only know about from movies or whatever. There's imagination, and then there's just plain going retarded.

Really? I never knew that at all...I do know there were NO sorcerors in the original D&D versions that I played. I guess you are used to later versions.

Now, how does this relate to one class in a game, that has no other peers being released?

But hey, by all means, if you can suspend belief to encompass anthropomorphic animals of all kinds with all kinds of wondrous powers and ridiculous backstories and shit tasting good or something, then good for you. But in my opinion, less is more and some kind of fantasy logic, works well enough.

And I said that where? We have a Sorceror that works the same way except it is also a half cleric. I didn't see anything about shit tasting, or such endeavours in the game. Where did I say those things?

As for your opinion at the end, you have Dragon Age games, Bethesda games...the list goes on. Plenty of trite, standard fantasy for you right there, and they even have Dragons in virtually all of them! You cannot get more bog standard fantasy than a Dragon! Not that I mind Dragons, but plenty of people around here seem to dislike them, because they are 'less is more' fantasy.

Perhaps your 'Western Mythology' is going to trip you up? After all, Witches, Wizards, Sorcerors and so on all had various powers according to ancient mythology. They didn't follow any ruleset, and basically had whatever powers the story tellers could think of, or the inquisitor could lay on their charge sheet. This included healing (using the unholy power of Satan was the usual charge), curses and other supernatural rubbish. In mythology, you can almost substitute Druids, Wizards, Witches, Sorcerors into one 'Class'. They all seemed to be able to do very similar things.

How does this gel with your opinion?

 

[circ]

I hate discussions with people who have no grasp of hyperbole. It's like talking to my dick.

Ahahahaha....dear me. The D&D ruleset you say? You realise this isn't a D&D game, yes?...and 5000 years of human history eh? Amusing, very amusing. All those sorcerors running about for 5000 years, using D&D rulesets...

It is however an RPG, and you could do a lot worse than draw inspiration from D&D. Sorcerer in D&D as far as I'm concerned works well.

Really? I never knew that at all...I do know there were NO sorcerors in the original D&D versions that I played. I guess you are used to later versions.

I'm drawing up background, and why mixing things up seemingly at random isn't always the best of ideas. And you'll notice I made no mention of rulebook editions, but did mention that all changes weren't bad.

Now, how does this relate to one class in a game, that has no other peers being released?

What are you saying?

And I said that where? We have a Sorceror that works the same way except it is also a half cleric. I didn't see anything about shit tasting, or such endeavours in the game. Where did I say those things?

Ok, so it's a half-cleric. Why call it Sorcerer then? It doesn't make any sense. Clerical skills have nothing to do with sorcery. Mage-cleric? It's obvious you have no taste in anything and probably listen to all kinds of music just because it has a beat and you can dance to it. Let's just call it Sorcerer because um, just because! Is that what you're thinking?

As for your opinion at the end, you have Dragon Age games, Bethesda games...the list goes on. Plenty of trite, standard fantasy for you right there, and they even have Dragons in virtually all of them! You cannot get more bog standard fantasy than a Dragon! Not that I mind Dragons, but plenty of people around here seem to dislike them, because they are 'less is more' fantasy.

And here we get to something I said towards the end, less is more. Just because you go haywire with genres and mix in everything you can, doesn't make it good. DA isn't good because it's standard fantasy, but you don't seem to get that? I bet you just cum gallons every time you play Wizardry because it's not afraid to throw in everything in a bowl for your consumption. Let's make talking tigers, elephants and cocks and then put in space ships too! AWESOME! Come on, it can't have flown that far above your head. Or maybe reasoning just isn't your forte.

Perhaps your 'Western Mythology' is going to trip you up? After all, Witches, Wizards, Sorcerors and so on all had various powers according to ancient mythology. They didn't follow any ruleset, and basically had whatever powers the story tellers could think of, or the inquisitor could lay on their charge sheet. This included healing (using the unholy power of Satan was the usual charge), curses and other supernatural rubbish. In mythology, you can almost substitute Druids, Wizards, Witches, Sorcerors into one 'Class'. They all seemed to be able to do very similar things.

Really? You couldn't figure out that I wasn't discussing all powerful witch lords but just standard fantasy tropes with bits drawn from mythology? Seriously?

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

I hate discussions with people who have no grasp of hyperbole. It's like talking to my dick.

A standard pastime of yours I presume?

It is however an RPG, and you could do a lot worse than draw inspiration from D&D. Sorcerer in D&D as far as I'm concerned works well.

Inspiration? Just about the whole game is a D&D campaign. How much D&D does it have to be to make you happy?

I'm drawing up background, and why mixing things up seemingly at random isn't always the best of ideas. And you'll notice I made no mention of rulebook editions, but did mention that all changes weren't bad.

Not necessary, I know the sad history of TSR.

What are you saying?

Just what I said. How does this relate to the only turn based game on the block, and from looking at Knights of the Chalice, an incredibly decent one at that. You are failing to take the Computer roleplaying genre, as it exists right now, into context.

Instead of thinking "oh well, I guess I can live with something like his new and improved sorceror, because I know his last game was very good, and it isn't like there is anything approaching this game on the market, and probably won't be in the near future", you instead decide that this issue is a big deal and whine about it. I am surprised you haven't exploded into bits and pieces after seeing what other studios have started putting out. Look what Bethesda did to Fallout.

Ok, so it's a half-cleric. Why call it Sorcerer then? It doesn't make any sense. Clerical skills have nothing to do with sorcery. Mage-cleric? It's obvious you have no taste in anything and probably listen to all kinds of music just because it has a beat and you can dance to it. Let's just call it Sorcerer because um, just because! Is that what you're thinking?

It makes as much sense as when the original creators of the D&D sorceror decided it would be called that. Another way to do it is just pretend the class doesn't exist. It isn't like there are no other magic using classes to be had. Also, read what I wrote above again.

Music? I don't like using the phrase, but this is the definition of a strawman. You make something up, and proceed to attack it/burn it down. Stop wasting your time and effort doing this. Stick to the facts, even as you know them.

And here we get to something I said towards the end, less is more. Just because you go haywire with genres and mix in everything you can, doesn't make it good. DA isn't good because it's standard fantasy, but you don't seem to get that? I bet you just cum gallons every time you play Wizardry because it's not afraid to throw in everything in a bowl for your consumption. Let's make talking tigers, elephants and cocks and then put in space ships too! AWESOME! Come on, it can't have flown that far above your head. Or maybe reasoning just isn't your forte.

What genres do I go haywire in and mix?

I don't know if Dragon Age is good or not, but from what I have it isn't, for me.

I cum gallons? Wizardry? Talking tigers? Elephants? Cocks?....etc etc...Oh! Another vomit of your imagination? Another strawman? See above.

As for Wizardry, I don't mind it. It isn't my favourite franchise, though I couldn't really care whether it has talking tigers and dogs in it. I haven't seen the cocks and elephants yet, but I salute you for delving that far into the franchise to find them see, a salute.

Just hyperbole though, right?

Really? You couldn't figure out that I wasn't discussing all powerful witch lords but just standard fantasy tropes with bits drawn from mythology? Seriously?

All powerful witch lords?

Standard fantasy tropes?

Bits drawn from mythology?

What is this nonsense? Haha, I will allow you to explain these if you want to, but I might indulge in a little strawmanning myself here, just for fun.

The all powerful witchlords, well, I couldn't guess this one. I assume this must mean the real versions I brought up, such as Merlin et al are really 'All Powerful Witchlords' and because they have all these amazing powers ranging across all the Dungeons and Dragons spell lists, they are not what you meant. Well, give me the example you are drawing from then, if not D&D stories.

The 'standard fantasy tropes' no doubt means 'what circ believes is permissible to use from the D&D system and world', which is similar for your last point of 'bits drawn from mythology' which again no doubt means 'bits circ believes should be used from mythology/dungeons and dragons stories'.

Does that sound about right to you?

 

[Elwro]

u guys all suck, I'll be mindblasting my way through the game with my party of 6 Psionicists

I've wanted to do sth like that in a game since the Dark Sun days

 

[Banner]

It's not about artwork

He ought to employ a professional artist. The artwork for the classes is utterly horrible.

Barghest out to employ a competent thinker. His cognitive processes are utterly horrible.

 

[catfood]

Don't bump unless there's actually an update on the thing FFS. I actually had my hopes up.

 

[DwarvenFood]

It's his first post, good start for the Codex career.