Preview KotOR2 hype train continues at IGN

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords

There's a <A href="http://pc.ign.com/articles/567/567357p1.html">preview</a> of <a href="http://www.lucasarts.com/games/swkotor_sithlords/">Knights of the Old Republic 2</a> over at <a href="http://pc.ign.com/">IGN</a>. Here's something about not starting with a lightsaber:
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<blockquote>As with the first KOTOR, you begin the sequel with no lightsaber. In fact, you won't have one for the entire first planet, which will eat up at least four hours of time (more for those who want the full game experience). The thing is, during my entire time on Peragus, I never really craved a 'saber. With a smattering of Force Powers at my command and a whole new set of characters to meet, it just never really seemed like a missing piece of the puzzle. I can't wait to get one, but KOTOR II doesn't suffer for a lack of a lightsaber early on.</blockquote>
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I'm not sure there's much to miss with a lightsaber in this series. The lightsaber didn't really do anything that was significantly cooler than a normal sword. There's really nothing you can point to and say, <i>Hey, if only I had a lightsaber here!</i> when you just have a sword.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.homelanfed.com">HomeLAN Fed</A>

 

[Limorkil]

Sounds just like Kotor. Before it came out people were like "What, I don't start as a jedi - urgh!" and other people were defending it with "Oh its really cool though because you get to make a hybrid character and you can use swords until you get a saber". Then, after people had played it for a little while, everyones asking "Can I become a jedi sooner" and "Is it possible to save levels until you are a jedi" and "What's the quickest way to get off the first planet?" You just know that once Kotor2 has been released on the PC the very first user mod/cheat will give you a saber to start, people will be after a walkthrough to get off the first planet quickly and everyone will be whining about not starting with a saber.

Yes you don't really need a saber over a sword at the start, but swords don't come in fancy colors or make cool humming noises in combat.

I like how a lot of the comments about Kotor 2 are to do with lightsabers. This is the stuff we need to know about. Fuck the RPG elements, we want pretty colors and sounds.

 

[monkey]

Re: KOTOR I -- It makes me wonder how well the non-Jedi SW games sell at times. If you're going to start me off as a non-Jedi, let me finish as one. I wouldn't mind playing a smuggler or spy in the SW universe, or a game pitched as such (I liked Dark Forces the First and the flight sims, especially TF), but everyone seems to have a hardon for becoming a Jedi.

Re: KOTOR I & II -- Oh, and if I'm the master of the freakin' force, why am I always starting as an amnesiac Jedi? For godsakes, people, there are better ways of getting a person involved in the story.

 

[Mendoza]

Well the devs keep saying you're not an amnesiac, and the previews keep saying you are. I'm guessing the previewers think their audience is too stupid to understand that you can not be told your entire backstory at the start of the game without being an amnesiac.

 

[suibhne]

Stupid IGN copy-monkey doesn't know the difference between "illicit" and "elicit."

The game continues to sound promising. I'm fully prepared for it to surpass the original, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if it surpasses the original and the gaming press ackowledges that.

I took note of this:

In the original KOTOR, sometimes a bonus dialogue response would appear for having the persuasion skill or some other comparable attribute. This is much more prominent in KOTOR II and now applies for just about any interface. Skill levels may open new options when computer hacking and a high intelligence can provide deductive reasoning, and help you piece together information. This creates even more options that can lead to a better solution to a problem.

Obsidian has obviously put a lot of effort into increasing the applicability of skills and stats, which really means implementing many more instances of multiple solutions. Let's hope it's done well and consistently.

 

[triCritical]

I honestly do not think there is anything Obsidian can do to make KotOR significantly better. They may get rid of some of the nuances, or mini-games. However, to make the game better they would have to do a serious overhaul of the engine, since that is its main fault. Stupid inconsistencies in the 3D such as limiting the players interaction because he can't go over a curb, and the C1N3M4T1C 3FF3C75!!!111, which made for some of the worst combat in CRPG history. I think its criminal to force a player to do so much combat and at the same time have such a crumby combat engine. Way too much time effort is spent these days on bells and whistles that do not really add much to the playability of the tilte and that is just pathetic.

 

[kumquatq3]

MCA has been posting a few things as of late on the Obsidian boards, figured some might want to read a few of his thoughts:

On Lightsabers:

Some time will pass in K2 before you can get your lightsaber. This is done intentionally, to make you feel like you earned it - and once you have it, it is one of the best weapons in the game.

We felt that by working at finding the pieces to make one, it would end up being a much more personal quest when it was finally in your possession. So if you find yourself struggling for it, keep it mind that it will make when you get it feel all the sweeter.

What we wanted to avoid was the excess of lightsabers that showed up in Episode 2 and in K1, which we were worried would diminsh the blade's uniqueness as well. So we opted for making them rarer and cooler, and we hope the overall effect will come out well.

On some of the ways they improved, or should I say got more use out of, skills:

Awareness (or "[Awareness]" as it is now sometimes called) is a little different than in the first game - now it also acts like Sense Motive in conversations, allowing you to pick up on what someone is feeling or why someone is acting the way they do. At points throughout the game, you may get [Awareness] options pop up in dialogue, just like you would for Persuade.

Other skills may cause additional conversation options as do statistics, so you may see things like: [Intelligence], [Wisdom], [Repair], [Demolitions], etc, etc.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Making the lightsaber harder to get won't make it feel sweeter if they really didn't improve it much. It'll just make me wonder why I'm bothering getting the damned thing in the first place if I can't really do anything interesting with it that I couldn't do with the sword.

The only thing a lightsaber in KotOR could do above and beyond a sword is that it'll block blaster fire occationally and you can toss them. The first one was fairly passive, and I never noticed it really doing much for me other than the animation looking kind of neat. The second one I rarely did. Why toss your lightsaber at someone when you can use a force power like Force Wave on them? Or a grenade?

If I could slice open doors with a lightsaber, slice up computers, slice through enemy melee weapons, and so forth, then it might be sweet. Making me work harder for it will do little more than make me notice that I've worked harder for something that really isn't that cool in the first place.

 

[kumquatq3]

I honestly do not think there is anything Obsidian can do to make KotOR significantly better.

In terms of combat (which your post focuses on), I agree.

They are trying to give it depth with the various (7 I think) lightsaber forms and making blasters and HtH legit ways to go through the game. As well as, for pure visual enjoyment, "upgrading" attack animation over time (hey, its better than seeing the same 4 over and over), but none of this fixes the problems with the combat. More like it tries to distract you from it.

As for other aspects of the game, I think big improvements can be made and alot of the areas are being addressed. Like the interface (remember all those datapads, there adding filters and scaling the windows), Balancing the Jedi classes (Lets face it, why was Sentinel even in the game last time?), giving dead skills from last game more and better uses, darker story, hopefully a lack of useless PNPCs. We will see what it all amounts too tho.

 

[Spazmo]

That's one of the big problems with KOTOR. The main advantage in the game of a lightsaber is its much greater damage and also you can only use some powers with a saber. All the advantages are purely statistical. There's none of the visceral pleasure of wielding a lightsaber you get in spades from playing Jedi Academy. Similarly, KOTOR makes being a jedi kind of bland. The only time you get to do some really neat stuff is when you're in combat, and those are just canned animations that you don't control and get tired of pretty quick. KOTOR just fails to transmit the sheer fun of being a jedi. Like I've said elsewhere, the ideal interface and control scheme for KOTOR would be that of Bloodlines. Bloodlines' control lets me feel how neat and powerful it is to be a vampire. I punch a guy, he goes flying. It's really that easy. If I'm a jedi, I expect to be doing all sorts of neat stuff, without the feeling of detachment I get from watching the canned combat animations.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

As well as, for pure visual enjoyment, "upgrading" attack animation over time (hey, its better than seeing the same 4 over and over), but none of this fixes the problems with the combat. More like it tries to distract you from it.

I think I remember posting something like that over at the Obsidian boards, but all the loons just kept parroting "no its actually awesome and improves it!" or some other thing.

Dumbnuts.

 

[kumquatq3]

Making the lightsaber harder to get won't make it feel sweeter if they really didn't improve it much.

They devs have meantioned there is something special about the LS you put together besides better damage. As to what that actaully is, dunno.

If I could slice open doors with a lightsaber, slice up computers, slice through enemy melee weapons, and so forth, then it might be sweet. Making me work harder for it will do little more than make me notice that I've worked harder for something that really isn't that cool in the first place.

I mean, isn't being able to do the most damage of any weapon (at least a reusable one) in the game, and being able to block incoming ranged damage as well as melee damage enough?

Remember in K1 how you could basically open any door with any weapon? Would you be satisfied if say only a Lightsaber was allowed to do that now?

And, tho it is silly, I still can't see how a unblockable lightsaber would work using this engine without giving all baddies a lightsaber. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

Why toss your lightsaber at someone when you can use a force power like Force Wave on them? Or a grenade?

Why I see your point, the answer to that question is 1) Range, iirc force wave and such doesn't go far. 2) A Grenade can't be reused, and you might not want to waste one on say a lone enemy (say a few guys are spread out). Not to mention a grenade could miss, where as a the saber would shift to hit the enemy. It was a good ability to use on Malak (sp?) iirc.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

If I'm a jedi, I expect to be doing all sorts of neat stuff, without the feeling of detachment I get from watching the canned combat animations.

That is the one aspect of Jedi Academy I loved. Force Push was such a blast. Many many stormtroopers and mercs fell to their deaths at my hands. :twisted: Although limited, there was alot more ways to conjure up on how to kill someone in that game then there were in KOTOR.

 

[kumquatq3]

If I'm a jedi, I expect to be doing all sorts of neat stuff, without the feeling of detachment I get from watching the canned combat animations.

That is the one aspect of Jedi Academy I loved. Force Push was such a blast. Many many stormtroopers and mercs fell to their deaths at my hands. :twisted: Although limited, there was alot more ways to conjure up on how to kill someone in that game then there were in KOTOR.

I'm surprised you guys would want, much less think it was ideal, to have a RT combat system in a RPG.

I mean sure Jedi Academy has better combat, thats all it is more or less, but I don't think you would want to have that combat transplanted in to K2.

 

[Spazmo]

Welll, if K2 isn't going to have proper TB anyways, why not? It'd beat the hell out of KOTOR's current dreadful combat.

 

[kumquatq3]

Welll, if K2 isn't going to have proper TB anyways, why not? It'd beat the hell out of KOTOR's current dreadful combat.

point taken

Lets hope K2 at least does what Vampire does (so I hear) and pulls through on the story and your choices actually matter.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Welll, if K2 isn't going to have proper TB anyways, why not? It'd beat the hell out of KOTOR's current dreadful combat.

I also remember posting something like this over at the General RPG Discussion forum. Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy had some great combat situations. Transposing that combat into a CRPG would probably be very interesting. I don't mind RT combat at all provided its fun and balanced, so, why not? I can totally relate to Hanz's appreciation of the combat model of JA, too. It really was hella fun.

 

[suibhne]

I just took a break from intelligent non-fiction (that's my justification, I guess ) and picked up the trashy Timothy Zahn books from the mid-90s, his sequels to Eps. 4-6, and I was struck again by how powerful the lightsaber can be when wielded skilfully - cutting through metal doors, stone pillars, even starship armor in some cases. Hell, Luke's lightsaber does more direct damage than the Millennium Falcon's topside pulse cannon, for chrissake. The lightsaber should be a tool with which to affect the world around you, not just to kill a few baddies in the lame-ass gimped combat engine, and that's what would be necessary to give the lightsaber a truly visceral Star Wars feel. And that almost certainly isn't going to happen in KotOR 2, no matter how great a job Obsidian ends up doing.

 

[The Exar]

The lightsaber is the symbol of the Jedi. If you don't have one you're not considered as Force user.
The lightsaber is designed to be extremly powerfull tool/weapon but it wasn't realized well in the first KotOR. You see, lightsabers and Jedis (both thinks are connected) are the things that attract to the SW universe. Imagine the Jedis as paladins in the future. It's easy. Now - imagine a paladin without equipment. That's hard. Yes, he remains paladin but his symbols are gone. No one will think about him as he would think for armored paladin. The same's with the Jedi and the lightsaber. It's his ID. But not just an ID :twisted:
We have all watched the movies. We've seen a real Jedi in action. It's a fantastic to behold the moves of the saber. It's somehow magical.
That's what Obsidian want you to do - to feel the need to make your Jedi complete. Which is a very brutal way to keep the interest in the game

Out of topic: Jedi Outcas had a better single than Jedi Academy. Why? Because they didn't give you the saber from the beginning. That's a tool to keep the interest. That's why Jedi academy was boring.

 

[Volourn]

"Lets face it, why was Sentinel even in the game last time?)"

Because it was the best Jedi class in the game. Period.


"That is the one aspect of Jedi Academy I loved. Force Push was such a blast."

Eh. Did you even play KOTOR? It had for Force Push. What a silly goose.


"The main advantage in the game of a lightsaber is its much greater damage and also you can only use some powers with a saber. All the advantages are purely statistical. There's none of the visceral pleasure of wielding a lightsaber"

Are you nuts? Better damage, more combinations with the crstals, a melee and thrown weapon in one, etc., etc. As for visceral pleasure; one of the strongest parts of the game was the way light sabre combat looked. It was totally sweet looking and sure looked cooler than other SW games I've played. Of course, I can't comment on the Jedi Academy one. It's amazing all the games people mention are ones I don't play.

R00fles!

That's not to say I thought KOTOR's combat was great. It wasn't. It was wayyy too easy and thoguh there were manyw ays to approach combat; it didn't really matter since it was easy no matter what. Flurr, power attack, dueling, it didn't matter. Hoepfully, that's improved and hopefully you got better control over character movement during combat which was probably the most annoying aspect of it.

And, yay, for OPTIONAL mini games. No more Space Invaders tm. in a RPG.

 

[Spazmo]

I said the advantages were purely statistical. Better damage, crystals... that all just makes the lightsaber a better sword. Okay, you had force throw, but again, with force wave being so cheap and effective, it's not worth it. The sabre combat looked exactly the same as the regular sword combat except now you had a neato glowing sword.

 

[The Exar]

I said the advantages were purely statistical. Better damage, crystals... that all just makes the lightsaber a better sword. Okay, you had force throw, but again, with force wave being so cheap and effective, it's not worth it. The sabre combat looked exactly the same as the regular sword combat except now you had a neato glowing sword.

That's absolutely right. The devs promised to correct Biowares mistake, so let's hope.(Oh! There's a difference - it was the only weapon in complect with 6 feats and two Force powers!)

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I mean, isn't being able to do the most damage of any weapon (at least a reusable one) in the game, and being able to block incoming ranged damage as well as melee damage enough?

There were SWORDS in the game better than most lightsabers. Those swords found in the tombs of the old Sith, for example.

Remember in K1 how you could basically open any door with any weapon? Would you be satisfied if say only a Lightsaber was allowed to do that now?

If you had to beat down a door with a normal weapon, something that takes a lot of time, versus being able to just slice the locks on the door mechanism as seen in TPM, then yeah. It would be more satisfying. Being able to slice through pressure pipes and other things would have been nice as well, as seen in ESB.

And, tho it is silly, I still can't see how a unblockable lightsaber would work using this engine without giving all baddies a lightsaber. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel.

If they pull out a sword versus a lightsaber, then they deserve the quick death. However, it would have been better - and more like Star Wars - if the enemies had decided to back away from the saber wielding jedi and used ranged attacks.

 

[Vault Dweller]

However, it would have been better - and more like Star Wars - if the enemies had decided to back away from the saber wielding jedi and used ranged attacks.

As clearly seen in the Ep 2.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Eh. Did you even play KOTOR? It had for Force Push. What a silly goose.

Yes. I know this. I played the game. I heaped praise on it when I first arrived here, if you remember correctly. I did love the game, and still do to an extent. BUT, all force push in KOTOR was good for was knocking people back, whereas in Jedi Academy, you could push fuckers of cliffs and ledges and let them fall to their deaths. Way more fun. And that's what I was saying. Force Push in KOTOR sucked. It was a blast, however, in JK:JA. Kthx.