Preview Risen 2: Dark Waters Preview @ Gamebanshee

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: Piranha Bytes; Risen 2: Dark Waters

Gamebanshee penned a preview of Piranha Bytes' upcoming cRPG Risen 2: Dark Waters. Despite noting some simplification in certain areas, like the character system, the overall impressions seem quite favorable.

This demo kind of cut off at the wrong moment to get a good impression of the advanced voodoo and firearm mechanics, so most of it just felt very similar to the early Risen gameplay. But it does improve even on that, with better quest design and a more unique and equally well-executed setting.

The voodoo mechanics, especially the voodoo doll cursing, has a great potential to be creatively used later in the game. Guns are relatively less interesting, but they should add more variety to combat. Tantalizingly, in the first two areas you can use cannons, and enter a first-person turret mode. Though there was nothing to shoot at for those cannons, I'm curious to see what they'll do with this mechanic later.

Sequentially unlocking areas is a little different from and more linear compared to earlier Piranha Bytes titles, though we've seen similar things before (locking off the old island early in Gothic II, for example). It means you won't be as badly overmatched when stumbling onto the wrong monster as you were in older PB games, but don't think you can just run around freely on the unlocked areas either, you will still run into significant challenges you might want to put off until later. The advantage of this approach is that you regularly enter new towns and meet new NPCs, which in my opinion is always the best part of any Piranha Bytes game.

Based on the preview areas, the sequel appears to be a solid improvement on Risen, despite the disappointing simplification in character system. It is a challenging and addictive experience, and the number of hours I poured into it just leaves me wanting for more. As long as it avoids declining into a dungeon slog as its predecessor did, this should make for an excellent addition to the Piranha Bytes library.

 

[Murk]

Many concerns I had have been alleviated by reading this preview, but I am still worried about rose-tinted goggles I may have in choosing which points of view to put stock into. Regardless, I no longer have reservations about pre-ordering, therefor... good, I think.

 

[hiver]

Sounds as bad as i thought it may be.

Muskets and shotguns replace your main weapon if you opt to use them, and use up (very cheap) ammo. You aim by holding the right mouse button and fire with the left, or alternately if the enemy has gotten too close you can use it as a close combat weapon, though this is not usually effective unless the weapon has a bayonet. There is no real aiming involved, the game shows a very large circular reticule, and will target the enemy highlighted inside this area. Nor is either weapon particularly long-range. They rarely kill an enemy in one shot, the result of which is a fight plays out mostly by avoiding the enemy by running around in between quick shots.

phah... what combat mechanics.

Mana has been completely removed. Instead, scepter spells, muskets, shotguns and pistols all work with cooldown timers. There is no reload animation or action for the guns, they just cool down automatically, taking a few seconds for muskets/shotguns and 20 seconds for the pistol type I carried.

 

[curry]

Sounds as bad as i thought it may be.

There is no real aiming involved, the game shows a very large circular reticule, and will target the enemy highlighted inside this area. Nor is either weapon particularly long-range. They rarely kill an enemy in one shot, the result of which is a fight plays out mostly by avoiding the enemy by running around in between quick shots.

Mana has been completely removed. Instead, scepter spells, muskets, shotguns and pistols all work with cooldown timers. There is no reload animation or action for the guns, they just cool down automatically, taking a few seconds for muskets/shotguns and 20 seconds for the pistol type I carried.

 

[Micmu]

Sounds like Gothic 3.51.
That is closer to 4.
In terms of shittifying it.

 

[Metro]

Brother None brofisting a link to his own article? Come on, bra~ M:

Anyway, it sounds fine and if they are indeed going to pursue the Gothic franchise further than it does make sense to shift things a bit thematically. Character development seems okay -- it was fairly simplified in Risen 1 and this sounds a bit more involved. The lack of mana isn't an issue since PB never could balance mages properly. Either they were grossly overpowered (as in G1), fairly underpowered (as in G2), or just a magic flinging archer (as in Risen). Length seems good for a modern game (the preview suggest 30-40ish hours total) and since I really didn't have a problem with the quests in Risen 1 the fact that Risen 2 has better ones is just fine.

Sounds as bad as i thought it may be.

You realize there was no aiming in G1 or G2, either, right? You just locked on to something and whether you hit or not was based on your bow/crossbow ability. Probably the same here. As far as no mana, as I already mentioned PB has never done mages well. Ditching mana seems like it is an improvement.

 

[Outlander]

Looks like a voodoo-oriented character could provide some fun.

 

[tarkin]

So PB haven't let you take any screenshots BN?

 

[Skittles]

Bah, I don't know about the character system. I want an RPG that gives you five dozen skills and says 'fuck it' to balancing them all--just let me use them in interesting ways in the game.

The increased emphasis on more interesting quest design is heartening, though:

There is no “click through dialog, follow quest marker, kill what is at the end of quest marker”-style design here.

Also, Re: PB's right to use Gothic: They do have it, but it looks like they haven't decided what to do with it yet.

 

[Metro]

Bah, I don't know about the character system. I want an RPG that gives you five dozen skills and says 'fuck it' to balancing them all...

That's basically what Elder Scrolls games did (well prior to their streamlining), not a fan.

 

[Brother None]

So PB haven't let you take any screenshots BN?

Indeed. No screenies from the preview copy. Not unusual.

Brother None brofisting a link to his own article? Come on, bra~

I was bro-fisting VoD's quickness.

 

[Hobo Elf]

How can they simplify their character system? Gothic (excluding Gothic 3) and Risen was always very bare bones anyway.

 

[Captain Shrek]

How can they simplify their character system? Gothic (excluding Gothic 3) and Risen was always very bare bones anyway.

 

[Kraszu]

G3 vanilla actually was the most simplified as you did end up as fighter/mage/hunter, it is worrying that you only need gold after increasing main Stat. Proper balance, and not having infinite amount of XP is more important for decision making then number of skills to choose.

 

[Lord Rocket]

P good preview (as per usual for BN), cheers to all involved

 

[Lexx]

No reload animation for guns? That's meh.

 

[curry]

Skills are upgraded by the usage of trainers. Unlike previous Piranha Bytes games, this does not take any experience points; instead, it takes only gold but has a minimum requirement in the related attribute, and for certain skills you must have the preceding skill upgrade.

It is quite different from earlier Piranha Bytes character systems in how it simplifies the spread of updates down to spending Glory on Attributes and money on skills. The skills not tied to talents are one-upgrade only, so lockpicking and pickpocketing are simply learned and from then on depend on your Thievery talent level on whether or not you can attempt something.

Similarly, breaking lockpicks has been removed, you need only one lockpick and then the required thievery level to pick open doors and chests, which takes you into a fairly simple unlock minigame reminiscent of the one from Oblivion.

Further evidence of simplification comes in the fact that the old system of learning how to collect trophies from animals and prospect for ore – already pared down to simply “gut animals” and “prospecting” in Risen – has been completely removed.

Piranha Bytes decided it was a good idea to add a killcam. It wasn't, it looks absolutely horrible. It's not triggered often, only when you fight a large number of enemies does it show the killing blow on the last one in slow motion. This killcam often highlights how the sword barely makes any contact with the enemy at all, or highlights the awkward motion of the PC, so I think this is one thing best cut completely from the game.

The final thing to note for combat is the companions. Patty and others join you throughout the game, and they are immortal, though they can be knocked out during combat, and will not get up until combat is over.

 

[Achilles]

Not really thrilled about the new pirate direction.

 

[sea]

I think the pirate stuff actually sounds pretty fun. I liked the glimpses of it in the first Risen, I just hope they don't go overboard with it and end up stumbling into self-parody. Then again I guess since Piranha Bytes are German, their games are already sort of stealth-parody by default anyway.

 

[Micmu]

Removing shit left and right, dumbing non-combat stuff down, KILLCAM?
Jesus Christ, it looks like they recycled the worst shit of EAware / betshitsda lowest common denominator products.

Fuck them, bye.

 

[toro]

Bye.

 

[Jasede]

Betrayal at its finest, turning your back on the fans.

 

[Metro]

Re: lockpicks. Did anyone ever seriously have an issue with lockpicks in G1/G2 or Risen? It was still basically a mini-game then (LRLRLLLRR) and given there was pretty much never a shortage of money you typically had tons of lockpicks. Especially in G2 where bandits usually dropped two or three of them. Sure, having one nonbreakable lock pick can be called simplified but it just seems like an example thrown out there to force a particular point. I believe I read that you still need to learn the skill for it, yes?

... so lockpicking and pickpocketing are simply learned and from then on depend on your Thievery talent level on whether or not you can attempt something.

Sort of like how they work in G2 where you learn them with one initial investment and your success is based on your agility?

Re: trophy systems. Who spent LP on this in G1 and G2? Quite frankly, they were fairly superfluous skills (oh, by the way there was no mining in G1/G2 other than those gold nuggets in the expansion where you could spend 2 LP to cap out at 100% proficiency for no apparent reason). In G1 it was simply for cash/ore (which you could get in truckloads by simply selling herbs, weapons, whatever). In G2 it occasionally gave you access to mini-quests where you turned in X shadow beasts horns for XP or whatever. You could also make minecrawler armor but that was rendered obsolete by armors available with NoTR. So, again, it was mostly just for money.

TLDR: While viewed in isolation the removal of LPs for trophies and the unbreakable lockpicks look 'simplified,' when you actually consider how these two things were implemented in past PB games these changes are inconsequential. Just seems like a rhetorical device to say... hrmmmm dumbed down.

As far as the character system, as Hobo Elf says, I really don't see how that is 'simplified' compared to Risen 1 (where it was extremely simple). Not as if it was complex in G1 and G2, either... perhaps G2 with NoTR but that was devised because the addition of an entire new map's worth of enemies and quest woulds unbalance a character otherwise.

 

[Brother None]

What you're saying is the systems were imperfect in previous game. That doesn't mean removing them isn't simplification, it still is. It might be an improvement, sometimes simplification is an improvement. It's still simplification.

Also, you missed the point on lockpicks where the minigame is way too easy. Maybe it gets harder later on. But with unbreakable pick and super-easy minigame, I don't understand why you don't just open it when you click it and have the required skill. As is, this is pretty bad implementation.

 

[Skittles]

Lockpicking is an actual skill check in G3, not a largely superfluous mini-game. No, it's generally little more than an inconvenience to keep yourself supplied with picks. With clear plateaus in advancement, though, you take out the slow, more graduated progress curve that an actual check would allow for. And for a fighter with just the bare minimum invested in lockpicking, picking every chest would be a chore, while to a dedicated thief, it's a glory. It's not that lockpicking was great and crucial, it's that this seems like a step in the wrong direction by making the sense of character progression simpler and apparently reducing the distinction between classes a bit, though I guess with sufficiently high prerequisites for the skills, this could be avoided.

Taking inconsequential stuff out of the game to polish the more important aspects is fine, but I'm not going to celebrate the fact that they went that route instead of finding a way to make those more consequential skills.

EDIT: Ninja'd.