Interview From Torment to Eternity: MCA Interview at Gamasutra

[Infinitron]

Tags: Chris Avellone; Obsidian Entertainment; Project Eternity

There's a new interview with Chris Avellone over at Gamasutra. In addition to the expected obligatory Project Eternity recap, it contains this new and interesting bit of information:

For Project Eternity, you've gone with a more traditional fantasy setting than in Torment. Was that always your intention?​

CA: The way we approached it was we got Josh Sawyer, who was the project lead on Fallout: New Vegas, and we got Tim Cain, me, Feargus [Urquhart] and our other project director Adam Brennecke in a room, and we listed out all the points that we enjoyed about Infinity Engine, and notably dungeon delving, and a lot of the discussion came back to a lot of the strengths that the Forgotten Realms setting had. What they would do is they would create a lot of interesting spaces and sort of build cultures around these cool dungeons, and it was resonating with just about everybody, that they wanted a more traditional fantasy setting.​

So Project Eternity actually started out as a "dungeon-based" setting? Maybe the Endless Paths aren't such a gimmick after all.

Besides that, the interview also covers such issues as the vagueness and unoriginality of many of the high profile Kickstarter successes, the possibilities for a Project Eternity sequel, the lessons Obsidian has learned with regard to narrative design, and Chris' growing admiration for emergent gameplay. You can read the entire thing here.

 

[Mrowak]

When you first announced the Kickstarter, you didn't really give any details. Was that a deliberate strategy, or where you actually making it up as you went along?

CA: To be honest, we had been working on elements of the title only a short time before the Kickstarter started, so there weren't actually that many details to reveal. We did have design time over the course of the Kickstarter to discuss those design ideas, we had design meetings, proposed the classes, discussed the system stuff.

There wasn't a huge extensive design doc before we started. There were just some basic principles for the kind of game we wanted to make, and then it just kind of developed over the course of the Kickstarter.

:facepalm:

FFS, Chris!! Of all people you should have known better!

 

[Infinitron]

Ah, but as you can see Mrowak, their Black Isle heritage is what counts here:

I found it interesting how your stretch goals were around adding discrete things, like new characters and new locations. Is that really how the money will get allocated?

CA: Yeah. One advantage we had was that we knew, back from Black Isle, how many people it takes to make discrete content. Things like, "How much does a companion cost to make? How long does it take to build a level? How many artists are needed? How many designers are needed?" We know all the logistics for that stuff, so that's why it might have seemed so precise -- it's just because we have all the information to draw from, so that made things much easier.

 

[Shannow]

This proves DU was wrong all along... Oh wait. Well, whatever.

 

[Mrowak]

Ah, but as you can see Mrowak, their Black Isle heritage is what counts here:

I found it interesting how your stretch goals were around adding discrete things, like new characters and new locations. Is that really how the money will get allocated?

CA: Yeah. One advantage we had was that we knew, back from Black Isle, how many people it takes to make discrete content. Things like, "How much does a companion cost to make? How long does it take to build a level? How many artists are needed? How many designers are needed?" We know all the logistics for that stuff, so that's why it might have seemed so precise -- it's just because we have all the information to draw from, so that made things much easier.

Inifinitron, if all that you quoted was the case they should have the design document ready before the fucking pitch was made, if only because it was so easy to make for them, and because they are such experienced professionals that they know what GODDAMN PLANNING IS FOR!! But they did not make one, because... duh.

By Unholy DarkUnderlord, this is not how professional developers should act. Obsidian has really disappointed me with the way they carried things out. It's yet again wishful thinking: "well, something will work out".

Yeah, it worked out for Black Isle and Troika. Oh wait...

 

[Infinitron]

By Unholy DarkUnderlord, this is not how professional developers should act.

Are you sure? Maybe this is precisely how professional developers prepare for pitches to publishers.

Nevertheless, I must admit that I was wrong when I claimed in certain previous arguments back in September that Obsidian must have many details prepared that they're not revealing. I wonder what exactly they did have, though.

 

[J_C]

Must....resist.....to start an argument with .....Mrowak....for.....the 1000th times.......fuck......him!

 

[St. Toxic]

 

[Kz3r0]

And once again the naysayers were right, remember kids, hate never fails.
Obsidian, Obsidian never changes.
Well, it'n not that we didn't know that they in the end will deliver a bloody mess of a great game, fuck, the more this goes on more it looks like a relationship with a girlfriend than an healthy rapport between fans and developers.

 

[Mrowak]

By Unholy DarkUnderlord, this is not how professional developers should act.

Are you sure? Maybe this is precisely how professional developers prepare for pitches to publishers.

Not the professional software developers I had a chance to work with.

Nevertheless, I must admit that I was wrong when I claimed in certain previous arguments back in September that Obsidian must have many details prepared that they're not revealing. I wonder what exactly they did have, though.

What we have seen. A few concept arts and the idea - it's going to be a game inspired by Infinity Engine in a fantasy setting. It's going to be AAAwesome. Trust us.

They made up the rest as they went without really realising what they are getting themselves into. It's just so... foolish.

 

[Infinitron]

Not the professional software developers I had a chance to work with.

As you well know, the gaming industry is a very different beast from the professional software industry at large.

They made up the rest as they went without really realising what they are getting themselves into. It's just so... foolish.

Yes, or maybe every single game is like this, basically. At least this is old, proven design with proven logistics.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Yes, everyone already knew that the kickstarter was half-assed. It's also pretty obvious that they'll go a little over budget and have to delay the release. It'll still be a damn good game though.

Final Metacritic Score: 84/100

 

[Mrowak]

And once again the naysayers were right, remember kids, hate never fails.
Obsidian, Obsidian never changes.
Well, it'n not that we didn't know that they in the end will deliver a bloody mess of a great game, fuck, the more this goes on more it looks like a relationship with a girlfriend than an healthy rapport between fans and developers.

healthy rapport between fans and developers.

Merriam-Webster, the Oxford dictionary and other sources define it as a shortened version of the word fanatic.

Fans == Tools?

You see, it is evident now that Obsidian's pitch relied on fanatical devotion of their fanbase and nothing else. They even didn't bother to prepare themselves for the campaign. I find that... dishonest.

 

[Kz3r0]

You see, it is evident now that Obsidian's pitch relied on fanatical devotion of their fanbase and nothing else. They even didn't bother to prepare themselves for the campaign. I find that... dishonest.

I find your lack of gayness for MCA disturbing.

 

[Bulba]

Infinition is turning into a real obsidrone - defending them in every thread to the last drop of blood

 

[Mrowak]

Not the professional software developers I had a chance to work with.

As you well know, the gaming industry is a very different beast from the professional software industry at large.

They made up the rest as they went without really realising what they are getting themselves into. It's just so... foolish.

Yes, or maybe every single game is like this, basically. At least this is old, proven design with proven logistics.

It was so proven it carried Troika and Black Isle to their graves. This approach did not appear to work for ANY of Obsidian's games as well.

Meanwhile developers from Blizzard who just happen to have a shrewed CEO with a great command of management and planning made excellent polished, popamole that is bought in millions.

This is the difference. A lot bad can be said about Blizzard - that they churn out rubbish for the masses... but it is a well-polished rubbish for the masses with plenty of deliberate (and devious) thought behind it which just screams quality at every turn. Obsidian has always lacked that foresight, and as it is they simply cannot combat popamole which in spite of all negatives proves to be a better product, in the end.

 

[evdk]

You see, it is evident now that Obsidian's pitch relied on fanatical devotion of their fanbase and nothing else. They even didn't bother to prepare themselves for the campaign. I find that... dishonest.

Worked marvels though. Why bother preparing complicated design documents when the sheep adoring masses will shower you with their money.

Yes, I know I have a tag.

 

[Infinitron]

It was so proven it carried Troika and Black Isle to their graves. This approach did not appear to work for ANY of Obsidian's games as well.

Nonsense, Black Isle's games were always profitable. The Icewind Dale games were excellent despite being produced under a tight timeline and budget. Black Isle died because of external factors.

As for Troika, Tim Cain is not the CEO of Obsidian.

 

[St. Toxic]

As for Troika, Tim Cain is not the CEO of Obsidian.

Which is a damn shame. Troika may have died, but they made some good games. Obsidian has yet to deliver one that wasn't shit.

 

[J_C]

Not the professional software developers I had a chance to work with.

As you well know, the gaming industry is a very different beast from the professional software industry at large.

They made up the rest as they went without really realising what they are getting themselves into. It's just so... foolish.

Yes, or maybe every single game is like this, basically. At least this is old, proven design with proven logistics.

It was so proven it carried Troika and Black Isle to their graves. This approach did not appear to work for ANY of Obsidian's games as well.

Meanwhile developers from Blizzard who just happen to have a shrewed CEO with a great command of management and planning made excellent polished, popamole that is bought in millions.

This is the difference. A lot bad can be said about Blizzard - that they churn out rubbish for the masses... but it is a well-polished rubbish for the masses with plenty of deliberate (and devious) thought behind it which just screams quality at every turn. Obsidian has always lacked that foresight, and as it is they simply cannot combat popamole which in spite of all negatives proves to be a better product, in the end.

I take Obsidian's buggy, but good game instead of Blizzard polished turd any time.

 

[Kz3r0]

It was so proven it carried Troika and Black Isle to their graves. This approach did not appear to work for ANY of Obsidian's games as well.

Meanwhile developers from Blizzard who just happen to have a shrewed CEO with a great command of management and planning made excellent polished, popamole that is bought in millions.

This is the difference. A lot bad can be said about Blizzard - that they churn out rubbish for the masses... but it is a well-polished rubbish for the masses with plenty of deliberate (and devious) thought behind it which just screams quality at every turn. Obsidian has always lacked that foresight, and as it is they simply cannot combat popamole which in spite of all negatives proves to be a better product, in the end.

Better a flawed gem than a polished turd.
It's how it is, to make the games we like we need inept nerds like Obsidian, this is why Kickstarter is a life saver, the money of the fans will save them from bankruptcy.
Thrilling, isn't it?

 

[Mrowak]

I take Obsidian's buggy, but good game instead of Blizzard polished turd any time.

Better a flawed gem than a polished turd.

That was not the point, lads. You are making excuses officially acknowledging now that it may be shit, if only it is going to be original shit.

Wouldn't it be better if instead of buggy mess with a few interesting ideas they made high quality polished game that could be held as a paragon of RPG design for years to come? And quite frankly it'd better not be a bloody, unoptimised mess this time around, because this is their golden shot. They have to overperform... or die.

It's how it is, to make the games we like we need inept nerds like Obsidian, this is why Kickstarter is a life saver, the money of the fans will save them from bankruptcy.
Thrilling, isn't it?

Which proves again that they made fans == tools out of you. The moment you turn off critical thinking is the moment reason dies and triumphs.

And if as you say we are saving their lives, isn't it all the more reason to do their best and prepare themselves? At the very least that would at lest mean they have some respect for the people that help them. Instead they went :shrug:

 

[Infinitron]

Okay, it's time to settle this once and for all.

Paging Anthony Davis!

Is it normal for a professional developer's pitch to a publisher to be about as sparse in detail as Project Eternity was when its Kickstarter was launched?

 

[Bulba]

Wouldn't it be better if instead of buggy mess with a few interesting ideas they made high quality polished game that could be held as a paragon of RPG design for years to come?

dream on

 

[Kz3r0]

It's how it is, to make the games we like we need inept nerds like Obsidian, this is why Kickstarter is a life saver, the money of the fans will save them from bankruptcy.
Thrilling, isn't it?

Which proves again that they made fans == tools out of you. The moment you turn off critical thinking is the moment reason dies and triumphs.

And if as you say we are saving their lives, isn't it all the more reason to do their best and prepare themselves? At the very least that would at lest mean they have some respect for the people that help them. Instead they went :shrug:

I think that many people here simply accepted that, as many things in life, you have to take the whole package, fanboys not withstanding.