Game News Dead State Kickstarter Update #27: Full Party Control

[Infinitron]

Tags: Dead State; DoubleBear Productions

This month's Dead State Kickstarter update announces the introduction of full party control in combat. I quote:

Most of you have probably seen our combat video by now. This was an early build of our combat which has taught us a lot about what is working and what isn't in the design. The biggest change that we have recently made is the following – you can now control your whole party in combat.​

We did this for a few reasons, namely to eliminate the wait for the player’s turn and to cut down on the frustration the player might feel from an ally AI’s tactical decision. With party control, you can also switch to characters that have the skills you might immediately need, which comes in handy when you want your mechanically-inclined ally to lockpick a door or your medic to prioritize a certain character’s health.​

However, we still want to make them feel like individuals. In the shelter, they very much have their own agenda and dialogue has a big impact on who they are. In combat situations, you will still have to worry about your squad panicking. We are adding more panic conditions, such as an ally worrying about a loved one if they are low on health. The presence of zombies or combat strain can still trigger a panic episode in most of your teammates. Having full control over allies, you can now try to reduce the likelihood of ally placement causing a panic episode. You still need to use your ally’s skills wisely and know what their weaknesses are.​

We've got a very early build that we’re fine-tuning, but expect to see more of full-party control in the future. We think it’s very much an improvement, and for fans of Jagged Alliance or X-Com, it’s going to offer a lot of the tactical options of those games. Our build is getting new features all the time, so we will demonstrate some of the new material when we have a more polished version of the new combat features.​

Great news.

 

[Jack Dandy]

Glad to hear about the full party control. I was afraid the battles would get a bit too tedious.

 

[Roguey]

Heh, and to think it was just three years ago when Brian was mocking people who were relentlessly criticizing his decision to go with party AI. Three years to realize he was wrong. Almost makes one wonder what kind of progress they were making during those three years.

 

[Infinitron]

Heh, and to think it was just three years ago when Brian was mocking people who were relentlessly criticizing his decision to go with party AI. Three years to realize he was wrong. Almost makes one wonder what kind of progress they were making during those three years.

What are you talking about? What mocking?

 

[Roguey]

Quest compass: On.

And I guess if I had a third wish... it would be for this thread to just contain the above and not suggestions or debate about those mechanics. This thread is for comments related to the FAQ, since the FAQ itself is locked. If you want to debate a certain design concept or suggest a different mechanic, please find the relevant discussion in the forum and update that thread, especially if the topic involves something that rhymes with "Arty Yay Eye" - thanks.

 

[Infinitron]

Quest compass: On.

And I guess if I had a third wish... it would be for this thread to just contain the above and not suggestions or debate about those mechanics. This thread is for comments related to the FAQ, since the FAQ itself is locked. If you want to debate a certain design concept or suggest a different mechanic, please find the relevant discussion in the forum and update that thread, especially if the topic involves something that rhymes with "Arty Yay Eye" - thanks.

1) That's not mocking.
2) Who says a question that mentions party AI has anything to do with not wanting party AI? He would have written something that rhymes with "Party Member Control" if people were bugging him about that.

 

[Roguey]

1) That's not mocking.

Yes it is. He's specifically calling it out.

2) Who says a question that mentions party AI has anything to do with not wanting party AI? He would have written something that rhymes with "Party Member Control" if people were bugging him about that.

I was around for the debate. There was a huge shitstorm when he said there wasn't direct control over party members in combat. Hence, party AI.

 

[Infinitron]

I was around for the debate. There was a huge shitstorm when he said there wasn't direct control over party members in combat. Hence, party AI.

I don't really care at this point, but it would be better if you linked to the debate itself rather than an oblique reference

 

[Roguey]

I was around for the debate. There was a huge shitstorm when he said there wasn't direct control over party members in combat. Hence, party AI.

I don't really care at this point, but it would be better if you linked to the debate itself rather than an oblique reference

Quest compass on again.
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,1456.0.html Ten page derail. Ah memories

The fact is, there are a lot of things that can be done to give more tactical control over the combat without turning the party into pawns or extensions of the player. As I said, we're not looking to make a tactical combat game. This is not going to please everyone, obviously, but I think the story and ally interaction are strengthened for not putting the AI under direct control of the player.

So much for the strength of story and ally interaction.

 

[Davaris]

Better late than never.

 

[quasimodo]

Brian said from beginning that if he tried it his way and it wasn't fun he would change to full party control. I'm glad he didn't ride it down in flames.

 

[hiver]

Fuck you all!
This was one fucking game, where i hoped to see individual allies instead of youre fucking party control shit!

namely to eliminate the wait for the player’s turn

Oh really? Well why dont you fucking go with RtwP and get rid of that that shitty turn based and its SLOWNESS and all that WAITING FOR ACTIONZ completely!!

Fuck this shit!!! :kicks a cat:

to cut down on the frustration the player might feel from an ally AI’s tactical decision

Gee... cna we have a sucking vacuum pump with the game too?

 

[Excidium]

Glad to hear about the full party control. I was afraid the battles would get a bit too tedious.

It will still probably be quite tedious at that snail pace. I estimate it will be 77% less infuriating though

 

[Tramboi]

What it means : coding a AI is too hard, people don't really want it : ditch it. Smart move. Seriously!

One of the thing I liked about Dead State was the zombies foes : no need to code a smart tactical AI, let's focus on other things.
They probably realized they wouldn't be able to make the allies fight any smarter, and they did the right thing.
Maybe for the wroing reasons though...

 

[felipepepe]

Sadly, I think Sawyer will never be humble enough to admit his mistakes so we can make fun of Roguey...

 

[Rake]

Sadly, I think Sawyer will never be humble enough to admit his mistakes so we can make fun of Roguey...

He doesn't need to admit anything. If something doesn't work he will change it without as knowing anything. He already changes the armor mechanics i think.

 

[MicoSelva]

I think Tramboi is spot on. I applaud the decision, but it's not really made because "waiting for player's turn is too long", but because they've realised that coding a good AI is a difficult and long process, which is not really worth the trouble, so they went the easier route.

 

[Volrath]

Sadly, I think Sawyer will never be humble enough to admit his mistakes so we can make fun of Roguey...

No, that's why he came to the Codex and told everyone NWN2 was a shit game.

 

[Rake]

He already changes the armor mechanics i think.

This may be a good news. Source?

It's old news. http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63...ack-resolution-damage-vs-armor-and-a-tileset/
Look under Damage Vs armor types.
My point is that is something Sawyer proposed don't work as he originaly envisioned, he will be the first to change it without us being the wiser.

 

[Zed]

I wish Arcanum has full party control.
I just enter black mountain mines or whatever it's called.
God does the combat suck or what.
Virgil et al. just runs up to golems and get one-shotted.
Not that it matters, since golems will kill you regardless.

 

[some guy]

I wouldn't mind having restricted control over my party members and dealing with all the nuisance that the uncontrolled AI might give. Always had patience for that kinda stuff. But if it's to much work to get it to a bearable level, I don't mind them skipping it.

 

[villain of the story]

Heh, and to think it was just three years ago when Brian was mocking people who were relentlessly criticizing his decision to go with party AI. Three years to realize he was wrong. Almost makes one wonder what kind of progress they were making during those three years.

Remarkable demonstration of lack of foresight, imo. Makes me wonder what else that's shit will go unchanged. I'm predicting that shelter mechanics will be a disappointment due to how rigid and static it will be (ie. "one permanent shelter" with no alternatives. How long can a single Zombie story revolve around a single fucking shelter?) as well as the combat without tactical diversity.

Also note how there is no party control during Real-Time, with party auto-following the PC. Just another disaster waiting to happen.

RTWP should be an obligatory bare minimum feature for any part based game with any Real-Time component, with or without TB combat.

 

[villain of the story]

Sadly, I think Sawyer will never be humble enough to admit his mistakes so we can make fun of Roguey...

He doesn't need to admit anything. If something doesn't work he will change it without as knowing anything. He already changes the armor mechanics i think.

He has changed and keeps changing mechanics like flies change direction mid-flight, gives the impression that he doesn't even know what he wants. That or he is retrained by the promise of "the IE experience" and regret setting that in stone.

At any rate, I doubt he has a coherent vision for combat at all, or any idea what he wants. That's one of the reasons combat will likely be full of suckage in PE. He's trying to find something to hold onto, as opposed to having a strong vision to follow.

What's the problem, Sawyer my boy? Real Crap with Pause giving you... *gulp* a PAUSE ?

 

[A user named cat]

Not to graphic whore and beat a dead Andyman, but I really wish they'd work on the environmental aesthetics next. Then bust out some sample shots. At least add some ruin to the surroundings. Nothing about the areas you navigate says zombie apoc or anything of the sort, at least from what I've seen so far. Looks like baby's first 3D project, just way too clean and neat. The visual quality is there but the grimy details are missing, big time. Stuff like this can make or break immersion.

 

[Elhoim]

Also note how there is no party control during Real-Time, with party auto-following the PC. Just another disaster waiting to happen.

There will be a toggle for no auto-following, of course. You can control any of your party members when in real time.