Review Cynic's Grim Dawn Alpha Impressions

[Crooked Bee]

Tags: Crate Entertainment; Grim Dawn

Grim Dawn is an upcoming action RPG from Titan Quest developers that got successfully kickstarted back in May 2012. Esteemed community member Cynic has played through the alpha seven times already, and thinks it's the best thing since Diablo III sliced bread. So he decided to share his impressions with the rest of us. Here's a snippet:

So it has great music and graphics, but let's talk about gameplay. In this release, 3 out of 5 classes (called Masteries in-game) have been included - Soldier, Demolitionist and Occultist. The Soldier is your basic Melee class, the Demolitionist is a ranged/trap based class and the Occultist is a summoner/mage type class. You are in complete control of how you want your character to progress, and at level 10, you can dual class. Immediately you feel a sense of personal ownership and attachment to your character as you experiment with unique builds and you remember what makes RPG systems fun other than finding phat lewt - customization. I can already predict that there will be thousands of viable, unique builds in this game. You will definitely feel as though your character is yours, and yours alone. You can respec, but this comes at a cost per skill point. While that cost is a measly 100 iron (the currency of Cairn), I suspect that this may change in the full release of the game, encouraging you to carefully think about what skill you choose to obtain or level up. The confirmed classes that are missing from the Alpha are the Nightblade - a dual wielding assassin type class, and the Arcanist - a pure wizard type class. Both sound very interesting and are sure to add a lot of variety to the mix.

Difficulty wise, Grim Dawn follows the aRPG tradition of offering 3 difficulty levels each unlockable via full playthroughs. However the Alpha only offers the starting normal difficulty. Don't be fooled though, the game is far from a walk in the park. I’ve only died a handful of times, but the fights are always exciting and exhilarating, forcing me to think about space, the environment, choke points and how much time I have left before my skills recharge. There’s tension, and that’s a good thing. Loot acquisition seems to be nicely paced as well, as I’ve consistently been finding better/more interesting gear which has made me think about what kind of character I want to build.​

Read the full article: Cynic's Grim Dawn Alpha Impressions

 

[Jedi Exile]

I wouldn't say that music and graphics were very good, but yes, gameplay was fun and that what is really important. I've enjoyed playing GD beta much more than playing Diablo 3.

 

[covr]

Stopped reading at level scalling Why I didn't know about that? It's really stupid on so many levels...

 

[Bulba]

level scalling? why would anyone whant to ruin their game with that shit?

whomever came up with the concept of level scaling should be crusified for all the evils he/she did to the human race.

 

[Infinitron]

In a linear game where areas are meant to be completed in a certain order, it might be good to have some limited level scaling rather than make players feel like they need to strip-mine each area of all possible experience points before they continue (because otherwise they might be underlevelled for the next area)

Level scaling in an open world, non-linear game is a different story, although it's not always bad to have some "encounter boosting"-style scaling there either.

 

[St. Toxic]

It's a shitty story either way.

 

[Cynic]

I predicted much rage regarding level scaling. I'll wait for a few more thoughts on it before I start a full on discussion about it. Don't ignore the bit of text that comes after the revelation, it's quite important.

This is an alpha, so if you've got some real reasons as to why you hate level scaling, post them, rather than just saying "level scaling suxxors! roofles!" The devs will read this review I am sure.

 

[Castanova]

I just have a hard time getting excited about this genre now. PoE was so much fun for like two weeks and then it just dropped off a cliff. And PoE had way more innovation than Grim Dawn seems to have. Plus, TQ was a snoozefest anyway.

 

[Cursed Platypus]

I just have a hard time getting excited about this genre now. PoE was so much fun for like two weeks and then it just dropped off a cliff. And PoE had way more innovation than Grim Dawn seems to have. Plus, TQ was a snoozefest anyway.

I would say it's the opposite. Grim Dawn seems much more than a grinding simulator.
(which PoE shamelessly admits to be).

Both have cool settings, but the way GD's gameplay, factions, dynamic world and exploration unfolds, seems much more coherent with the context than endless loot hoarding PoE.

 

[Cynic]

It does have the makings of something a little bit more special than its competitors. I'd say the effort put into the game world and its atmosphere really contribute a lot to this. Design decisions like actually implementing C&C, a feature which many so called cRPG developers these days shy away from, also show that Crate are trying to do things differently. This is an Alpha and I missed out on the high level dungeon with my first character. If this was the full game I'd have to wait till the next difficulty level to get to that dungeon. Stuff like that is just what the genre needs more of.

 

[Castanova]

I just have a hard time getting excited about this genre now. PoE was so much fun for like two weeks and then it just dropped off a cliff. And PoE had way more innovation than Grim Dawn seems to have. Plus, TQ was a snoozefest anyway.

I would say it's the opposite. Grim Dawn seems much more than a grinding simulator.
(which PoE shamelessly admits to be).

Both have cool settings, but the way GD's gameplay, factions, dynamic world and exploration unfolds, seems much more coherent with the context than endless loot hoarding PoE.

The first screenshot of this impressions post features a quest: "Zombie Mutants Slain (0/15)" .... That tells me all I need to know about this game.

 

[sea]

Good and nicely accurate preview. To me your concerns about encounter design are pertinent, though unfortunately I haven't found many games in this genre that actually have good/meaningful boss fights. Handling a big powerful enemy without resorting to kiting is pretty much impossible since ultimately fights in this kind of game are going to turn into wars of attrition.

 

[Mastermind]

Handling a big powerful enemy without resorting to kiting is pretty much impossible since ultimately fights in this kind of game are going to turn into wars of attrition.

It's impossible because most arpgs are literally based on the popamole model. Namely, they want players to be able to kill monsters in 1-2 hits to keep up a fast pace, which means the monsters have to hit hard to maintain a decent difficulty curve. And because monsters hit hard getting decent defense becomes rather pointless for the 99% of the game that isn't the final boss.

 

[markec]

There are very few games in this genre that I actually like, Nox is one of the few that come to mind. This genre was pretty much ruined by Diablo 2 which was a smashing hit and thus forced everyone to copy it. So we get loads of games with bunch of boring uninspiring maps filled by hordes of enemies, nonexistent story and save&exit option. One of the reasons that I love Nox is that maps are filled with interesting locations and secrets, also there is quite a lot dialogs, quests and non combat areas. The point is that there is no rule to say that ARPG cant have interesting world design, good story and dialogs, loads of C&C, combat that forces you to actually use your brain, but hey lets blame piracy for our shitty game flopping.

 

[dibens]

There are very few games in this genre that I actually like, Nox is one of the few that come to mind. This genre was pretty much ruined by Diablo 2 which was a smashing hit and thus forced everyone to copy it. So we get loads of games with bunch of boring uninspiring maps filled by hordes of enemies, nonexistent story and save&exit option. One of the reasons that I love Nox is that maps are filled with interesting locations and secrets, also there is quite a lot dialogs, quests and non combat areas. The point is that there is no rule to say that ARPG cant have interesting world design, good story and dialogs, loads of C&C, combat that forces you to actually use your brain, but hey lets blame piracy for our shitty game flopping.

I think you're confusing genres here. Diablo 2 and it's clones are infinite replay, multiplayer, roguelike loot grindfest games first and foremost. They satisfy completely different needs than Nox and other rpgs. It doesn't mean they can't have great atmosphere, fleshed out world with a back story etc, but you're going way overboard expecting c&c, dialogues and deep, tactical combat.

 

[markec]

There are very few games in this genre that I actually like, Nox is one of the few that come to mind. This genre was pretty much ruined by Diablo 2 which was a smashing hit and thus forced everyone to copy it. So we get loads of games with bunch of boring uninspiring maps filled by hordes of enemies, nonexistent story and save&exit option. One of the reasons that I love Nox is that maps are filled with interesting locations and secrets, also there is quite a lot dialogs, quests and non combat areas. The point is that there is no rule to say that ARPG cant have interesting world design, good story and dialogs, loads of C&C, combat that forces you to actually use your brain, but hey lets blame piracy for our shitty game flopping.

I think you're confusing genres here. Diablo 2 and it's clones are infinite replay, multiplayer, roguelike loot grindfest games first and foremost. They satisfy completely different needs than Nox and other rpgs. It doesn't mean they can't have great atmosphere, fleshed out world with a back story etc, but you're going overboard with c&c, dialogues and tactical combat.

Thats the problem, thinking that ARPGs NEEDS to be just a loot grindfest is curse of Diablo 2, you can be loot focused game but you dont need to be simplistic. Nox is a ARPG just like Diablo games, Dungeon Siege, Revenant, Titan Quest or Grim Dawn, but Nox has more going to it beside just hunting for loot, and I dont see why other ARPGs cant have that too. Diablo 1 had really great atmosphere, Revenant complex combat system and Nox great world design. Creating ARPG doesnt give you right for a excuse to build simplistic world filled with hordes of enemies and non existent story.

 

[Cynic]

The first screenshot of this impressions post features a quest: "Zombie Mutants Slain (0/15)" .... That tells me all I need to know about this game.

Firstly this is an optional quest. Secondly the quest happens very organically, you encounter these mobs randomly all over the place. I didn't have to go seek them out, it just kind of got completed by itself while I did the other quests. There were only two other fetch quest which were very tiny and I had completed already before even meeting the quest giver. These are the starting quests of the game, at this point you're just getting used to combat and the controls etc., and such things are fine IMO.

 

[Cynic]

Markec and Dibens, you guys are both right and I personally think GD has the potential to bridge the gap between both of your points of view.

Sea, thanks and fair enough. Mastermind is right as well and perhaps I just expect too much from combat. I do think health globes in Diablo 3 shook then model up a bit though, it just added the possibility of an extra preservative reward for being aggressive and I think it worked quite well. Seems like lots of people disagree with me, but generally when they do they fail to properly articulate the reasons as to why they hate this mechanic.

 

[Castanova]

The first screenshot of this impressions post features a quest: "Zombie Mutants Slain (0/15)" .... That tells me all I need to know about this game.

Firstly this is an optional quest. Secondly the quest happens very organically, you encounter these mobs randomly all over the place. I didn't have to go seek them out, it just kind of got completed by itself while I did the other quests. There were only two other fetch quest which were very tiny and I had completed already before even meeting the quest giver. These are the starting quests of the game, at this point you're just getting used to combat and the controls etc., and such things are fine IMO.

It reveals something about what the developers believed would be high enough quality to include in the game. And the fact that it's one of the starting quests which are supposed to define your first impression of the game makes it even worse. Why do I need to be patted on the back for "organically" killing a certain number of monsters when the entire purpose of these games is to organically kill all the monsters. Do they award you a 50 point achievement as well? Is this what they believe makes an ARPG fun?

 

[Cynic]

Uh, it's optional bro, you don't have to do it if you don't want to. There's a story tied to the quest, a guy is angry that his wife got killed by the monsters, he wants revenge and will reward you if you get it for him. But if you don't give a shit about his revenge and you're happy his wife got killed, then just don't bother.

It's not what makes the game fun, no, it's just a very tiny thing that happens. Judging the entire game by the fact that this quest exists is quite retarded.

 

[dibens]

Thats the problem, thinking that ARPGs NEEDS to be just a loot grindfest is curse of Diablo 2

To me, loot grind-fest is not a curse, it's the reason I play arpgs. And as long as game keeps this reward mechanic dynamic, I will not get bored. Ultimately what it boils down to- the time you're not spending killing monsters is time you're wasting on not getting loot and putting it to good use.

Yes, ARPGs could strive to better themselves beyond that, but you also have to understand that because of their design, they can't have complex c&c quests and dialogue trees as regular RPGs. Pretty much the same reason why most quests in MMORPGs are of "fetch x and kill y" variety. They are created with random map generation, multiplayer and infinite replay in mind.

Nox is a ARPG just like Diablo games

Nox is arpg for casualfags. It's a great game, don't get me wrong, but you play it once or twice, enjoy it and uninstall it.

 

[Cynic]

Dibens, I agree with you on one level but not on another.

I agree that aRPGs of this sort need to be, by design, something akin to slot machines. They are about loot, and making your character as strong as possible. That's fine and it's fun, for some people the fun lasts for years, others like myself will probably be content with just finishing it seven times.

However, I think it's wrong to say that these games can't have C&C or a deep storyline. GD already implements C&C quite well and the one thing that pisses me off about the Diablo "play the same game 3 times" model is that it becomes fucking boring to play exactly the same content 3 times over. You might say "but the loot is better!" But it's not enough for me and I honestly feel like it is incredibly lazy design.

C&C give chances for the subsequent play through a to be unique in their own way. If these C&C are tied to a good story then all the better.

Why can't we have both?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Hmmm, I'll be watching this game.

 

[Castanova]

Uh, it's optional bro, you don't have to do it if you don't want to. There's a story tied to the quest, a guy is angry that his wife got killed by the monsters, he wants revenge and will reward you if you get it for him. But if you don't give a shit about his revenge and you're happy his wife got killed, then just don't bother.

It's not what makes the game fun, no, it's just a very tiny thing that happens. Judging the entire game by the fact that this quest exists is quite retarded.

D3's auction house is also optional.

I agree it's a minor thing but given I don't have alpha access I have to judge the game based on the evidence presented to me.

 

[Grunker]

It'd be pretty interesting to hear from someone who had played Path of Exile or Torchlight, to get some comparisons. Both those games have major flaws, but are somewhat favoured by many codexers in the sea of current aRPG alternatives to Diablo 3. How Grim Dawn would hold up against those would be interesting to know.

This is an alpha, so if you've got some real reasons as to why you hate level scaling, post them, rather than just saying "level scaling suxxors! roofles!" The devs will read this review I am sure.

I hope they do not, for their sake, because I doubt they will find much of constructive use in it. Your impressions read, to me at least, as "your game is perfect, don't change a thing." While Grim Dawn might be the second coming of aRPGs I doubt that it doesn't have a single flaw. On top of you having played neither of the two big "comparison titles" out right now (Path of Exiles and Torchlight) I gotta say your impressions were well-written but ultimately don't hold that much utility.

I usually detest many mainstream journalists for their lack of context. Many of them are young and review shit without having much to compare the games to. Your review seems to fall prey to this as well..

Unless other people, unlike me, are willing to accept that Grim Dawn is a game without flaws. Either way, it is a pretty useless tool for the developers, true or not, since I can't imagine a developer getting any useful info out of a review that, summed up, says: "game's perfect."

Good and nicely accurate preview.

The "review" is well-written, no doubt about it, but it really is more of an favourable infodump and less of a review, as far as I see it.