Information Swen Vincke on What is an RPG + Divinity: Original Sin KS Update #47

[Crooked Bee]

Tags: Divinity: Original Sin; Larian Studios; Swen Vincke

As part of Divinity: Original Sin's new Kickstarter update, Larian Studios' Swen Vincke has written a blog post detailing his own system for judging how close a CRPG comes to perfection, called "FUME" for short. Here's an abridged snippet on what it stands for:

FUME, in short, is my method for measuring the quality of character development a game is going to give me, character development being the feature I care the most about in a RPG. The higher the FUME score, the more I love it and the lower the FUME score, the less likely it is to remain on my hard drive (or even be installed if I judge the FUME potential to be low)

The F in FUME stands for the Freedom of character development available.

Can you make the avatar you want to play? Or are you forced into a particular stereotype conjured by the designers of the game, who for sure will not have thought of your particular fantasy. It’s an important question, because it directly affects how immersed I will be in the game.

Freedom also reflects the degree of linearity present - you can’t have a very high Freedom value in a linear game. It also stands for the liberty that is given to you to make decisions that have some in-game consequences. If I don’t get to make at least a few decisions that affect at least a few things in your gameworld, chances are you’ll score very low on my Freedom scale with your RPG. [...]

Next up is the U, which stands for the Universe in which you develop your character.

Is it interesting? Is it diverse? Is it original? Can you have cool and fun adventures in it? Is there sufficient depth? Do you care about the game world? Is it consistent with itself? Is it the type of universe that is interesting to play in as a starting character, but also as a well-developed hero? And also, is it a place that reflects your actions? Does it change as a result of your heroic deeds? Do you make an impact? If the answer to all or most of these questions is yes, I might be tempted to play the game even if it sucks at all the other levels. I like to explore new universes. They are a projection of the complex mix of cultures that make up a game development team, and there’s often something to be learnt from them.

The M then stands for the Motivation that is given to you to develop your character.

This doesn’t always have to be the main story: Diablo for instance was a game that got its Motivation from item fever and a few cutscenes, rather than from its complex storyline. However, it’s clear that having a good storyline can be instrumental in increasing your desire to explore a game’s universe. When the Universe falls flat (as it often does), it’s very possible that I’ll continue playing if my motivation to discover what comes next is strong enough. In general I find that if both Universe and Motivation score too low, I’m not going to be interested in a game. [...]

Finally, E stands for the quality of the Enemies against which you can develop your character.

[...] There has to be some resistance in the game world against which you can grow, be it the bad guys, an ethical problem the importance of which increases over time, the refusal of your avtatar to deal with his personality issues etc… Whatever form a game’s antagonist or antagonists take, you want them to be interesting, varied, original, believable and surprising.​

As usual, Swen praises Ultima VII as the game that comes closest to his ideal.

Read the blog post in full here, and don't forget to also check out the update (which even has a new video).

 

[Arkeus]

Well, glad to see this here.

The new subforum thing make it really hard for people to notice when people are talking in less used threads :p

 

[Volourn]

L0L

 

[hiver]

Its a good system he has there.

Except those features, for me it goes like this:

Character skills vs Player skill.
TB combat vs RT combat.
Isometric PoV vs First person pov.
Diversity of gameplay style and options vs combat only game. (which translates to non-linear vs linear)

 

[Lhynn]

I often judge the games i play by the same merits. Thats why ive stuck around with AoW for so long, even if the enemies are shit.

 

[Scruffy]

now that's something we could discuss about, WHAT is a RPG?

 

[godsend1989]

RPG this days have many faces...

 

[Maiandros]

read that yeah;
after many a year of whining, or lurking watching codexians whine or any combination thereof, it is by now for me simply whether i forget myself (ie fuck,look at the time) or not..
and you know what? Doesn't even have to be a 'good' game for that to happen..

The rest is..relevant, subjective, avatar/custom sig/no life issues loaded bull..occasionaly too endorsed by the few people "around" (here and otherwise) milking their proverbial cows. Hello you cunts, you all know who you are ^^ Which again, is..bull..

Which i think pretty much sums this whole place up, lol..

p.s. hiver why are you still around man? I honestly can't get it..

 

[Excidium]

now that's something we could discuss about, WHAT is a RPG?

A type of tabletop game where usually one player assumes the role of referee (commonly called DM or GM) and the other players control individual characters (called PCs) whose actions guide play, and it's the referee's role to create scenarions, control secondary characters (called NPCs) and describe enviroments and outcomes of actions taken by the PCs. RPGs are usually built around rulesets, which provides the rules for playing the game, and campaign settings, which provide fiction material and serve as a backdrop for scenarios.

 

[Scruffy]

well that sure stopped the bait attempt right in its tracks

 

[Delterius]

well that sure stopped the bait attempt right in its tracks

It appears that Excidium... doesn't have time for this crap.

 

[Murk]

Yo Swen, mein freund, I will gladly volunteer to be a proof-reader for your blog posts. I can guarantee a 24-hour turn around rate of up to 2,000 words. Spelling, grammar, and even content-editing. Lemme know, mang.

 

[felipepepe]

My problem with Swen's system is that it doesn't consider the systems behind all that... take Arcanum for example, it has shitloads of Freedom, a awesome Universe, a weak Motivation and a mediocre array of Enemies... cool, but nowhere you display it's biggest flaw: the horrible combat system.

Maybe that's why he uses this system, so that Ultima VII doesn't loses points for that clusterfuck of a "combat" it has...

 

[Arkeus]

Well, "interesting enemies" kinda need a interesting combat system.

 

[Delterius]

My problem with Swen's system is that it doesn't consider the systems behind all that... take Arcanum for example, it has shitloads of Freedom, a awesome Universe, a weak Motivation and a mediocre array of Enemies... cool, but nowhere you display it's biggest flaw: the horrible combat system.

Maybe that's why he uses this system, so that Ultima VII doesn't loses points for that clusterfuck of a "combat" it has...

You can always say that systems are respective methods to portray the game's narrative. Meaning that if you pick the enemies of Arcanum by themselves and factor in the system that portray them, the abysmal combat system, Arcanum ends up scoring horribly on 'E'.

Same thing for the other letters, really. You can have the bestest setting in the world, but if you don't particularly like, say, topic based dialogue or you don't want all the actually interesting parts to be portrayed via books and lost diaries, then you may not like Morrowind's 'U' in the end. Indeed, I loved Morrowind, but very little of the lore's promise of what Vvardenfel should be is translated into the game's dialogue.

 

[Gragt]

My problem with Swen's system is that it doesn't consider the systems behind all that... take Arcanum for example, it has shitloads of Freedom, a awesome Universe, a weak Motivation and a mediocre array of Enemies... cool, but nowhere you display it's biggest flaw: the horrible combat system.

Maybe that's why he uses this system, so that Ultima VII doesn't loses points for that clusterfuck of a "combat" it has...

He admits that the combat is the weak part but the game is excellent despite of it. His, and Larian's, goal is to make a game that would build on U7 strenghts and still have good combat, and hopefully that's what D:OS will turn out to be.

I don't quite entirely agree with his perspective, mostly that I think it leaves things on the side as to what would make a great RPG, and had a bit of a talk about that with him when I met him, but still think his heart is in the right place. I just hope they'll manage to make something good.

 

[Roguey]

Vincke clearly hasn't played Fallout New Vegas: A Game by Josh Sawyer with Assistance from A Few Dozen Others if he thinks no one's made a recent RPG that meets his criteria.

 

[felipepepe]

That's a FPS bro, not a TRUE RPG.

 

[tuluse]

Vincke clearly hasn't played Fallout New Vegas: A Game by Josh Sawyer with Assistance from A Few Dozen Others if he thinks no one's made a recent RPG that meets his criteria.

I thought the Motivation was a little weak in New Vegas. Yeah going after the guy who shot you in the head is a reasonable thing to do. Another reasonable thing to do is run in the opposite direction before he finds out you're still alive. That isn't really an option, or even hand waved.

 

[tuluse]

Well, "interesting enemies" kinda need a interesting combat system.

Interesting enemies might imply an interesting system, but an interesting system doesn't imply interesting enemies. See: ToEE.

Actually, Deus Ex and VtMB both have interesting enemies with poor-to-terrible combat systems.

 

[hiver]

I think Sven is really talking about what makes a better "experience" in any rpg you can think of - not what makes a great and TRUE RPG.

Only the first - Freedom, is gameplay relevant. The rest fall down to writing.

 

[Roguey]

Vincke clearly hasn't played Fallout New Vegas: A Game by Josh Sawyer with Assistance from A Few Dozen Others if he thinks no one's made a recent RPG that meets his criteria.

I thought the Motivation was a little weak in New Vegas. Yeah going after the guy who shot you in the head is a reasonable thing to do. Another reasonable thing to do is run in the opposite direction before he finds out you're still alive. That isn't really an option, or even hand waved.

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[tuluse]

Your character has amnesia and wouldn't remember that.

Compared to other Obsidian title's it's still weak. Look at Alpha Protocol, "I just got setup and everyone is trying to kill me", or KotOR2, "Sith assassins are trying to kill me and this mysterious Jedi woman seems to know something", or MotB, "I just gained some kind of demonic power and have no idea what it does, better find out before the villagers try to kill me".

 

[Roguey]

Your character has amnesia and wouldn't remember that.

a) The notice is right there in your inventory from the start
b) http://new.spring.me/#!/JESawyer/q/166960228892448468

Well, he's incorrect about the Courier; you absolutely do not have amnesia. There is no point at which you are unable to remember aspects of your past and, more importantly, outside of being a courier in the wrong place at the wrong time, your past is considered irrelevant to how you move forward in the story.

 

[tuluse]

I certainly thought the courier had amnesia as well. The intro must not have been clear on that point. Doesn't your character say he can't remember his name?

I think running away is still a valid option. The Mojave Express Package can't cover the entire wasteland of the Fallout universe.