Interview Oblivion tit for tat at GameCloud

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

<a href="http://www.gamecloud.com/">GameCloud</a> has <a href="http://www.gamecloud.com/article.php?article_id=1635">an interview</a> with <b>Pete Hines</b> about <A href="http://www.elderscrolls.com">Oblivion</a>. Here's a bit about the role playing in a first person actiony environment:
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<blockquote><b>Gamecloud - Even though it can be played in first person, Oblivion is supposed to be a true RPG rather than an action-RPG. How hard is it to make the game a real role playing experience?
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Pete Hines</b> - Well, most good RPGs have action. Somebody is always whacking someone or something with a sword or axe or blasting them with a gun or whatever. The trick is to find a balance where the player controls the action and understands what’s going on, but the skill of the person playing the game doesn’t override the stats and abilities of the character they’re playing. The way we handle that is to have combat that feels natural and realistic.
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You swing or block when you want, if the sword hits the enemy, or the shield blocks an attack, it hits or blocks. There are no "to hit" rolls or anything like that. Instead, the stats govern everything that happens after that. How much damage you do with a sword or a magic spell, how much damage your shield absorbs…all of that is determined by the stats of your character. So it feels both natural to the player (understanding everything they see happening on the screen) and at the same time, we’re able to keep it as a true role-playing experience where, ultimately, the success or failure of your character will be based on his/her stats, not yours.</blockquote>
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I'm a little fuzzy on this. If there's dodging as well as shield blocking, isn't that basically a "to hit" roll there?
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.shacknews.com">Shack News</A>

 

[Pr()ZaC]

Wow, this interview was full of... the same questions all over again!

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

You dodge by moving your character out of the way of strikes. How quickly you can do this depends on your character's speed. Again, the quick dagger user can move around faster and using the fast dagger for quick strikes and can get out of the way, while the slow heavily armored warrior can stand & take more punishment and use a heavier weapon with less danger to himself. There's also an Acrobatics skill perk that adds a fast dodge ability.

The player controls the actions -- attack, block, dodge, maneuver -- and stats work to determine success.

 

[RAG]

Even though it can be played in first person, Oblivion is supposed to be a true RPG rather than an action-RPG. How hard is it to make the game a real role playing experience?

Pete Hines</b> - Well, most good RPGs have action. Somebody is always whacking someone or something with a sword or axe or blasting them with a gun or whatever. bla bla bla

So today's lesson is, a true rpg (rather than an action one) and a real role playing experience is made by having great action in the game.

That was a good one. Maybe he should try answering the questions being asked next time. If he just wants to rant about how great and wonderful Oblivion is, he should pay for the advertisement space. Maybe it's time for the editors to stop including to the interviews such idiotic and higly irrelevant answers or make them pay for the advertisment.

 

[Tintin]

So today's lesson is, a true rpg (rather than an action one) and a real role playing experience is made by having great action in the game.

Pete Hines says - "most good RPGs"

RAG reads - "a true RPG"

 

[Chefe]

I didn't understand Pete's responses, so I did a Google translation:

Gamecloud - Oblivion has gotten some of the biggest advance praises for a game that's still not scheduled to come out for a few months yet. How much pressure does that give the development team to meet the game's expectations?

Pete Hines - I'll avoid your question with vague mumbo jumbo.

Gamecloud - Morrowind made big advances in open-ended gameplay. When the time came to create Oblivion, what ideas did the team come up with to improve that aspect?

Pete Hines - We got rid of the part where you had to think. I would also like to bring up our AI system. I'm not going to tell you how it will make quests better, only that it will.

Gamecloud - Even though it can be played in first person, Oblivion is supposed to be a true RPG rather than an action-RPG. How hard is it to make the game a real role playing experience?

Pete Hines - To be a good RPG you must have visceral combat and lots of action. Your skills govern the amount of damage you do, but you have to have good reflexes in combat or else your character will suck.

Gamecloud - What can you tell us about the main storyline in Oblivion?

Pete Hines - We're the first company in history to make a game where you don't save the world yourself, and if your character didn't complete his take the world would abruptly end in fire and death.

Gamecloud - What are some of the more memorable creatures that the player will encounter in the game?

Pete Hines - Typical fantasy shit like Goblins and Trolls. Oh yea, we also have our own species called Daedra.

Gamecloud - How will the magic and combat systems in the game be handled?

Pete Hines - Even though everyone and their mother has heard this before, we made a system where you don't have to unequip your sword to cast a spell. That's all you get to hear about magic. And another thing, I've already mentioned this but there are no more to-hit rolls. Thought you'd like to hear that again. It'll all work perfectly. You'll love it.

Gamecloud - How will the AI and conversation systems for NPCs in Oblivion work?

Pete Hines - We have spent alot of time on our AI system that will have the NPCs do things you won't care about or even notice. As for dialogue, despite numerous complaints and suggestions, we're sticking with Wiki. Trust us, we've made improvements and it'll be great.

Gamecloud - What other important gameplay elements will the game have?

Pete Hines - Yea, you wish I'd give you a good answer for this, don't you?

Gamecloud - How hard is it to make a game as graphically intensive as Oblivion?

Pete Hines - We threw the majority of our resources at it.

Gamecloud - What sort of mod support will the PC version have?

Pete Hines - TESCS with some minor improvements.

Gamecloud - Are there any plans for a demo of the game to be released?

Pete Hines - No, we prefer to take the customer's hard-earned money before they find out if they like the game or not. Do you think we would have sold so many copies of Morrowind if people played a demo of it first?

Gamecloud - What is the current status of the game's progress and when will it be released?

Pete Hines - We'll tweak it until Microsoft says it's time to ship out the Xbox360 release games.

Gamecloud - Morrowind had a number of commercial add-ons for the PC version. Are there any add-on plans for Oblivion in the works?

Pete Hines - You can download content that should have shipped with the game. We'll probably end up doing an expansion if our fans don't shut up about all the features we removed from previous versions.

Gamecloud - Finally is there anything else you wish to say about Oblivion?

Pete Hines - I'd like to say that you should trust us, and it'll be cool. I don't think I've said that in this interview yet.

Gamecloud - How about answering our fucking questions?

Peter Hines - *leaves*

 

[Balor]

The question is, he dodged the question about how good Oblivion be at giving players a real opportunity to play a role, and he proceeded to rave about combat instead.
So, whether you want it or not, in Pete's view, combat == true roleplaying.
Somebody rid this guy from the burden of existance. Being so stupid must make his life a living hell.
*Remembers the last minutes of 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'*

 

[Vault Dweller]

So today's lesson is, a true rpg (rather than an action one) and a real role playing experience is made by having great action in the game.

Pete Hines says - "most good RPGs"

RAG reads - "a true RPG"

Tintin thinks that a true RPG is shitty be default.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

Somebody rid this guy from the burden of existance. Being so stupid must make his life a living hell.

Nice. Real nice.

 

[Tintin]

The question is, he dodged the question about how good Oblivion be at giving players a real opportunity to play a role, and he proceeded to rave about combat instead.
So, whether you want it or not, in Pete's view, combat == true roleplaying.
Somebody rid this guy from the burden of existance. Being so stupid must make his life a living hell.
*Remembers the last minutes of 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest'*

Yeeah that's true. It is kind of stupid considering the original question was how to make it a true role playing experience.

I think he was trying to put it stats as the answer to "real" RPG question though - compare them to the "action" part of combat. Im sure you will vehemently disagree that stats are true "RPG" experience though, but you can see whre he's coming from.

Tintin thinks that a true RPG is shitty be default.

If I did, I'd think I would know. Unfortunately I don't

And anyways, what about this paragraph:

"Another aspect we improved is in the way that quests work. We created quests and things for the player to do that they can not only choose to do (or not do) in any order, but they can accomplish in a variety of ways. Part of that is the AI system and the way our NPCs behave and interact. This gives the player more freedom to try some creative things in solving quests that they might not normally try in a more restrictive RPG."

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

You dodge by moving your character out of the way of strikes. How quickly you can do this depends on your character's speed. Again, the quick dagger user can move around faster and using the fast dagger for quick strikes and can get out of the way, while the slow heavily armored warrior can stand & take more punishment and use a heavier weapon with less danger to himself. There's also an Acrobatics skill perk that adds a fast dodge ability.

The player controls the actions -- attack, block, dodge, maneuver -- and stats work to determine success.

What about the shield blocking thing, then? If there's a roll to see how successful a shield blocks a hit, then wouldn't that be a "to hit" roll? Really, the same thing applies to armor. If the armor skill roll is low and the armor is wicked powerful, isn't that "to hit"?

 

[Chefe]

Actually, I did like the part about you being there to help the guy that has to save the world. Hopefully, this is true and we won't end up with something like "YOU ARE TEH REAL HEIR!"

"Another aspect we improved is in the way that quests work. We created quests and things for the player to do that they can not only choose to do (or not do) in any order, but they can accomplish in a variety of ways. Part of that is the AI system and the way our NPCs behave and interact. This gives the player more freedom to try some creative things in solving quests that they might not normally try in a more restrictive RPG."

Read: Slay him with a sword, spell, or stealth. AI doesn't determine dialogue.

He can say whatever he wants, but he gives no fucking examples.

 

[Chefe]

What about the shield blocking thing, then? If there's a roll to see how successful a shield blocks a hit, then wouldn't that be a "to hit" roll? Really, the same thing applies to armor. If the armor skill roll is low and the armor is wicked powerful, isn't that "to hit"?

Bethy senses tingling!

"Trust us, it works, and it'll be cool."

 

[Tintin]

Read: Slay him with a sword, spell, or stealth. AI doesn't determine dialogue.

He can say whatever he wants, but he gives no fucking examples.

He said AI behaviour and interaction. Killing with sword spell or stealth doesn't seem to have anything to do with that. And I don't think he would outright lie.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Man, I just read the part about the demo.. No demo?! Lame.

 

[Balor]

Somebody rid this guy from the burden of existance. Being so stupid must make his life a living hell.

Nice. Real nice.

You agree? It' really nice indeed.
You are must be working in the same company with him, right?
Then go, carefully lead this slack-jawed, salivating idiot to the nearest bed and smother him with a pillow, be a good guy.
You'll do everyone, and him in particular, a great service.
Unless... it’s the designer guy who thinks so, and Pete just repeating his words (he must kinda dumb to repeat them, but not so criminally, I guess).
So, just change targets and go for the designer guy.
Good luck!

P.S.
It’s real shame it wasn’t done a few years ago, before the development begun. So much torment could have been prevented... not to mention the game may be noticeably better, too.

 

[Chefe]

He said AI behaviour and interaction. Killing with sword spell or stealth doesn't seem to have anything to do with that. And I don't think he would outright lie.

Then tell me, how would an NPC scheduler help with quests? You either find him and kill him outright, or your follow him around for the opportune moment, then sneak up and kill him or kill him by poisoning his food.

Even there, he doesn't give any examples. It's just the typical "trust us, it'll be cool" bullshit. And since they're sticking with Wiki for dialogue, how else do you think quests will have alternative means of accomplishment? Tell me, chico. How will they? No, better yet, forget the Wiki shit and let's stick with Pete's original response. Tell me how Radiant fucking AI will help better quests.

stuff about killin'

Pete's just the PR guy.

 

[Tintin]

Then tell me, how would an NPC scheduler help with quests? You either find him and kill him outright, or your follow him around for the opportune moment, then sneak up and kill him or kill him by poisoning his food.

Again,

" Part of that is the AI system and the way our NPCs behave and interact."

Radiant AI isn't an NPC scheduler.

 

[Rune_74]

Balor you really should grow up.

If you don't like what the guy says fine, but to insinuate harm to a person because of it....

Man where are your parents and don't they monitor what you do?

Children should not be allowed on computers without supervision.


Rune

oh and Mr smilefacedude...I commend your patience and proffessionalism when dealing with winners like these. Good luck on the game and keep up the great work.

 

[Vault Dweller]

@ Tintin:

Define "behave" and "interact" in the context of a TES game.

 

[Chefe]

Again,

" Part of that is the AI system and the way our NPCs behave and interact."

Radiant AI isn't an NPC scheduler.

You're just as bad as Pete. Why won't you answer my question?

NPCs walk around, get food around a certain time, sleep around a certain time, and engage another NPC with a couple of words if they happen to run into one while walking around. It's an NPC scheduler, with some little extras.

 

[Vault Dweller]

oh and Mr smilefacedude...I commend your patience and proffessionalism when dealing with winners like these. Good luck on the game and keep up the great work.

Too funny

 

[Tintin]

How am I supposed to know the intricate details of the Radiant AI system. But what I've read and heard in interviews and such, it's not just an NPC scheduler, and Pete Hines clearly says it will add choice to completing quests. Either Pete Hines is the biggest idiot, the worst PR guy ever to exist on the planet - or there's more choice to the quests than in Morrowind.

Now, as much as you hate PH, it doesn't sound very likely that he would pump up quest variations and choices if it was actually just as basic as you put it.

 

[Chefe]

Wait for it... wait for it...
and Pete Hines clearly says it will add choice to completing quests.

What was that? Still no details? Still the same old "trust us, it'll be cool" bullshit. Yea, he clearly says it will add choice to completing quests. I'll clearly say that I've invented a fucking time machine. No, he won't give any examples. No, I won't give any details on my time machine either. However, both will be released in two months to take your hard-earned cash. Better save up!

Now, as much as you hate PH

I don't hate Pete, I hate him being vague, saying the same shit all the time, and not answering the reviewer's questions.

it doesn't sound very likely that he would pump up quest variations and choices if it was actually just as basic as you put it

Are you just fucking with me here, are or you serious?

One word: Fable.

 

[Balor]

You dodge by moving your character out of the way of strikes. How quickly you can do this depends on your character's speed. Again, the quick dagger user can move around faster and using the fast dagger for quick strikes and can get out of the way, while the slow heavily armored warrior can stand & take more punishment and use a heavier weapon with less danger to himself. There's also an Acrobatics skill perk that adds a fast dodge ability.

The player controls the actions -- attack, block, dodge, maneuver -- and stats work to determine success.

What about the shield blocking thing, then? If there's a roll to see how successful a shield blocks a hit, then wouldn't that be a "to hit" roll? Really, the same thing applies to armor. If the armor skill roll is low and the armor is wicked powerful, isn't that "to hit"?

Well, in fact, a lot of skill checks in combat do not make a good RPG, you must understand this.
Yea, the combat would be a bit twitchy and not TB, that's for sure, but, fortunately, we can always use (if it will be done) MWE-equivalent with 'slo-mo'.
And armor checks are not 'tohit' - it's 'to damage'.
Armor (and it's status), weapon status, your fatigue - it's all influesing damage, and it's a 'Good Thing' (tm).
That's how things work IRL.
Personally, when I hear 'tohit roll' - my vision turns bloodred and I restrain myself from smashing something to bits, cause it reminds me of 'Most Hateful AD&D' (tm).
Because having a 'to hit' roll is does not make a game better RPG - it's, in fact, a glaring simplification.
So, in this particular area, hands off Bethesda! They’ve made combat better. Period.
And that's coming from a guy that spend a year in Russian SCA-equivalent.

However, if you ‘actively block’ and that provide you with 100% block chance - it’s not so good. Unless it’s a some sort of huge towershield, and those monsters are not usually used by ‘adventurer types’ - only footsoldiers in lines.
If it’s a bucker type shield, you have to actively maneuver it to block attacks... btw, it’s very, very, VERY tiring.
My left hand went completely numb after 10 or so minutes of active combat (even with a couple of breaks).
Shields (and helmets) are, in fact, heaviest one-piece armor types. (Well, relatively with helmets, but anyway).
Yea, I’m not Conan-type, but putting your shield ‘at the ready’ should cost some stamina drain, and actual blocks - add to it.

Btw, I wonder, who’s responsible for setting weight values for armors and weapons ingame?
As I remember, it used pound as a weight unit?
Anyway, it had among the MOST screwed-up weights of armor and weapons.
This guy should either be added to the MSFD hit list for being smothered with a pillow, or be showed to http://thearma.org/ so he’ll read everything there and be educated ASAP.
Boots weighting more then helmets! Two-handed swords weighting more then 10 kilograms! When they rarely weight more then 4 (usually about 3). That’s really insane.
Heck, he just should be given such a sword and made to train with it for an hour.
He'll die from heart attack himself, so there would no need to waste efforts to smother him.