a SHOCKER(not)-Bethesda will use an upgraded version of the Creation Engine for TES VI and Starfield

[TemplarGR]

There was a time when I thought that motto "Mod it till it breaks" is only relevant to Brokseda games, but it is also true for their engine itself.

In the end I'm glad that they are sticking to old engine (even possibly for next gen consoles). Let them push this, release bugfests, crappy animations, crazy physics, shit lighting etc. - it will only hasten their demise, as Brokesda for way too long got free-pass from journalists and gamers alike.

1) Bugs are the result of Bethesda's nonexistant QA
2) Animations are poor because of poor artists, it is not the engine
3) Physics is Havok. Pure Havok. Again, the fact that it works like shit is Bethesda developer retardation and non-existent QA, not bad engine. Havok works better in other games...
4) Lighting was significantly improved in Fallout76. Lighting can be improved even with mods and enbs... It is not the fault of the engine...

Seriously, no complaint you have has ANYTHING to do with the engine... Not a single one.

 

[Zenith]

So why can't it be released as a finished product? I understand us pc gamers have time to install some engine hacks, like NVSE, but console gamers can't.

This was their strategy for consoles. Maybe still is.

 

[TemplarGR]

But the real problem I have is that they are lazy, as those mods which just fix uv wrapping has shown us. I am not even sure the "new and improved" head models are theirs.

But I'll bite, the problem is that it's a console game. Ok I get it. So why can't it be released as a finished product? I understand us pc gamers have time to install some engine hacks, like NVSE, but console gamers can't. That means they are spending big money on a shoddy product.
Look to the other console games. Even KCD on PS4 (was it PS4?) was basically a finished game that you can play on a console and still have, more or less, the same experience as if you played it on a pc. The only mods it has are some shaders and texture mods / head replacers. Why can't bethesda reach that point before releasing their games?

Because of the "good enough mentality".

Think about this, how can you really, really polish a game like let's say, Skyrim? Proper QA in a game like Skyrim, we are talking Blizzard's level of QA here, or Nintendo QA, is very costly and time consuming. So they rule that out. They understand that they are going to go bankrupt if they focus too much on polishing such an enormous game. They have no guarantee that their games will keep on selling 20m+ copies...

The problem with this kind of attitude is that it is a slippery slope. Once you no longer care about perfecting your product, you begin cutting more QA, because why the fuck not? It is not like you were gonna eliminate bugs anyway, 1 more , 1 less, who cares, right?

Keep thinking like that and eventually you release Fallout 76.

 

[Lord_Potato]

But the real problem I have is that they are lazy, as those mods which just fix uv wrapping has shown us. I am not even sure the "new and improved" head models are theirs.

But I'll bite, the problem is that it's a console game. Ok I get it. So why can't it be released as a finished product? I understand us pc gamers have time to install some engine hacks, like NVSE, but console gamers can't. That means they are spending big money on a shoddy product.
Look to the other console games. Even KCD on PS4 (was it PS4?) was basically a finished game that you can play on a console and still have, more or less, the same experience as if you played it on a pc. The only mods it has are some shaders and texture mods / head replacers. Why can't bethesda reach that point before releasing their games?

Because of the "good enough mentality".

Think about this, how can you really, really polish a game like let's say, Skyrim? Proper QA in a game like Skyrim, we are talking Blizzard's level of QA here, or Nintendo QA, is very costly and time consuming. So they rule that out. They understand that they are going to go bankrupt if they focus too much on polishing such an enormous game. They have no guarantee that their games will keep on selling 20m+ copies...

The problem with this kind of attitude is that it is a slippery slope. Once you no longer care about perfecting your product, you begin cutting more QA, because why the fuck not? It is not like you were gonna eliminate bugs anyway, 1 more , 1 less, who cares, right?

Keep thinking like that and eventually you release Fallout 76.

You know what? I agree with you.

Bethesda games are shitty, poorly designed and unpolished, with poor QA because there are always morons who praise them no matter what.

And now think for a moment, about who such a moron might just be

 

[TemplarGR]

You know what? I agree with you.

Bethesda games are shitty, poorly designed and unpolished, with poor QA because there are always morons who praise them no matter what.

And now think for a moment, about who such a moron might just be

Bethesda games are flawed masterpieces, and there is a reason that the sales of a single Bethesda game can't be surpassed if you combine the sales of all games Troika, Infinity Engine, Obsidian, Black Isle made together...

I know you are butthurt, and i understand. It hurts so much trying to be a hipster and failing.

 

[Lord_Potato]

Flawed masterpieces? Perhaps Daggerfall deserved such praise, being an extremally ambitious project for its time. Both in terms of pushing the technology and the broadness of its vision. With such a title I could forgive many rough edges and countless bugs.

Morrowind was just a masterpiece, establishining the boundaries of what was possible with the current technology, offering rich lore and quests that did not offend intellect.

Oblivion and Skyrim were just mediocre experiences. Devoid of ambition, downscaled, championing idiot-friendly solutions (quest compass), "streamlining" mechanics (read: making them understandable for utter morons), with a terrible, repetitive main quest (Oblivion), and simplistic, linear locations, especially dungeons (Skyrim).

Ofcourse, making these games accessible to the intellectually challenged proved to be a wise decision sales-wise. But at the same time Bethesda abandoned any pretenses to greatness. They became fed up craftsmen, creating products of questionable quality for people who did not know any better. The true visionaries left the company and what was left was Todd Howard.

 

[TemplarGR]

Ofcourse, making these games accessible to the intellectually challenged proved to be a wise decision sales-wise. But at the same time Bethesda abandoned any pretenses to greatness. They became fed up craftsmen, creating products of questionable quality for people who did not know any better. The true visionaries left the company and what was left was Todd Howard.

DING DING DING. That is the crux of your problem... As i have been saying since forever in the codex, hipsters just pretend they like niche games so they can feel better about themselves... It is a form of psychopathology.

So let me get this straight, you are assessing the intellectual level of millions of people, just by the toys they use to PLAY in their FREE TIME?

I think you are so fucking delusional, you can't really begin to grasp how much retarded you appear to a normal person...

 

[Spectacle]

Ofcourse, making these games accessible to the intellectually challenged proved to be a wise decision sales-wise. But at the same time Bethesda abandoned any pretenses to greatness. They became fed up craftsmen, creating products of questionable quality for people who did not know any better. The true visionaries left the company and what was left was Todd Howard.

DING DING DING. That is the crux of your problem... As i have been saying since forever in the codex, hipsters just pretend they like niche games so they can feel better about themselves... It is a form of psychopathology.

So let me get this straight, you are assessing the intellectual level of millions of people, just by the toys they use to PLAY in their FREE TIME?

I think you are so fucking delusional, you can't really begin to grasp how much retarded you appear to a normal person...

You don't have to be stupid to enjoy Skyrim, but it helps!
You can't be stupid and enjoy Morrowind, you'll spend all your time in game wondering why you can't find Caius Cosades.

 

[Funposter]

So let me get this straight, you are assessing the intellectual level of millions of people, just by the toys they use to PLAY in their FREE TIME?

He's obviously talking about the barrier for entry being lower, since players are only expected to follow quest markers and fight through the game's level scaled world. Morrowind, in contrast, isn't exactly the video game equivalent of reading Kant, but it does do a few things that Skyrim never does. It stresses the player's reading comprehension (shock, horror) as they are expected to be able to read and follow basic instructions. Thankfully these notes are kept in a journal which the player is able to refer back to at any time. Morrowind also expects the player to more carefully manage their character's skills and attributes in combat - you are expected to come to the conclusion that maybe you aren't hitting your enemy with a Steel Mace, because you are completely out of fatigue and have a Blunt Weapon skill of 5. Morrowind also respects the player's intelligence enough to sometimes hand them challenges which they incapable of currently completing, with the expectation that they wll return to it at a later date. NPCs will say as much to you. Skyrim, to its credit, does this to an extent which Oblivion didn't. The world in Skyrim isn't 100% level scaled, so the player can still be flung into space by Giants or encounter the Dragon Priest as Shearpoint, but those are also very clear "fuck off" visual indicators.

Not all Skyrim players are idiots, but the barrier for entry has been lowered to the point where an idiot can successfully play it. Morrowind requests too much patience from the player for a genuine idiot to enjoy it. This doesn't mean that anyone who dislikes Morrowind or finds its (relative) depth to be daunting is stupid. Some people just want to relax and play a fun game in 30 minute chunks, but those are also the games which are, by their nature, open for idiots to enjoy. I could prepare some venn diagrams if you like.

also note that any properly intelligent person probably has better things to do than play role playing games

 

[TheImplodingVoice]

Interviewer : "Todd why are you guys at Bethesda still using the Creation engine which is still actually Gamebryo and a very old engine? Creation engine seems to be still very dated and seems to not work properly. Why still use if For TES 6 and Starfield?

Todd Howard : "It just works"

Interview end

 

[Lord_Potato]

DING DING DING. That is the crux of your problem... As i have been saying since forever in the codex, hipsters just pretend they like niche games so they can feel better about themselves... It is a form of psychopathology.

So let me get this straight, you are assessing the intellectual level of millions of people, just by the toys they use to PLAY in their FREE TIME?

I think you are so fucking delusional, you can't really begin to grasp how much retarded you appear to a normal person...

What I said was pretty simple. The fact you still could not grasp it only presents you as a fool you are. But we already knew that, so nothing new to see here.

Ok, I'll try to be even more clear:

In order to get the sales Bethesda wants, you have to make the game idiot-friendly. Remove statistics, remove too many abilities that would confuse lesser minds, add quest compass, fill the world with dungeons composed of a single, linear corridor, so that even a retard does not get lost (even with automap and quest compass it was still possible if you had say, 2 corridors).

And so they did. Add the fat promotion budget and behold! Success! 20 millions copies sold.

It does not mean every Skyrim player is a moron. It just means that the experienced was taylored with morons in mind, so that even they can have a satisfactory run.

Judging from your posts, Bethesda achieved its aim.

 

[TemplarGR]

This video contains a lot of representative types of codexers... Try to find what type describes you. Just replace music with video games and art with CRPGs...

 

[Black Angel]

So Bethesda games are special because it allows idiots to put 10,000 cheese wheels in their house and everything else suffers as a result. Glad we cleared that up.

More shitty excuses to defend a lazy developper and his substandard, archaic engine design...

I guess fanboys will swallow anything when it comes from Bethesda.

Let me guess... are you perhaps a fan of Fallout 76 too? Having fun with friends, are you?

Personally I never cared about movable plates on the tables in taverns of Oblivion or Skyrim. About the possibility of rearranging forks and knives. It may be sweet for LARPers and autists, but I'm neither.

The loading times however are not acceptable. If they are needed on consoles, so be it. I play my games on PC and do not want shitty ports.

And you still did not adress the issue of tiny "cities" in Bethesda games.

So, looks like we have two people who don't code or understand about complexity.
Yes, those 10k cheesewheels use a lot of memory when they're being tracked. For example, if you can tell me a way to track effects applied in a non matrix way and thus non n^2, I'll be more than glad to hear it. Same goes for memory handling, if you can give a better way to balance resources, I'll be more than glad to hear them. Though, realistically how will you limit what kind of clutter one place will have?

Consoles (especially the Xbox) have huge memory issues, one of the biggest complaints by the KC: D developers was the memory handling. Because of that the transition from LOD and loading of objects would happen right in front of the player.

Beth has a lot of incompetence, but unfortunately as long as they pander to the lowest common denominator aka consoles, we are stuck with better graphics and less content. That's because console players want to get better looking games, but the hardware doesn't change. That's why TES 6 probably takes so long, because they're hoping a new console generation would be announced. So to get those "better looking graphics" they have to sacrifice on other memory and space constraints, such as content.

Feargus Jewhart

I know you want to slamdunk another Skyrim, Feargus, but tone down the

, please

 

[Tweed]

Because of the "good enough mentality".

Think about this, how can you really, really polish a game like let's say, Skyrim? Proper QA in a game like Skyrim, we are talking Blizzard's level of QA here, or Nintendo QA, is very costly and time consuming. So they rule that out. They understand that they are going to go bankrupt if they focus too much on polishing such an enormous game. They have no guarantee that their games will keep on selling 20m+ copies...

They don't have to when they know the community will fix whatever they don't, hell, Bethesda doesn't even really bother with a story anymore. If Oblivion and Skyrim didn't have modding capability they'd be completely worthless as games because they're such generic blank slates. In this case one of their biggest flaws is their strength, but that's only because the community exists to keep producing content, content that Bethesda would really like to monetize now with Kreation Klub Kredits.

You don't have to be stupid to enjoy Skyrim, but it helps!
You can't be stupid and enjoy Morrowind, you'll spend all your time in game wondering why you can't find Caius Cosades.

Most people get hung up on dice-roll combat, they never even start to look for Caius.

 

[Ovg]

To be perfectly honest it does look retarded when you fight npcs at the beginning. You swing at eachother and because animations for hit and miss are the same it looks like a slapfight.

 

[Makabb]

inb4 in TES VI there will be no story and the selling point will be 'create your own story' with AI that leads a 'real life'

 

[passerby]

Lighting can be improved with enbs...

No

 

[fantadomat]

The engine is not a bad one,it does need shit ton of updating tho. The problem is how shit Bethesda are at using it.

 

[Makabb]

Gamebryo was originaly an MMO engine though

 

[Duraframe300]

The engine is not a bad one,it does need shit ton of updating tho. The problem is how shit Bethesda are at using it.

There are multiple engine issues that Modders fix everytime a new game comes out and there are several unsolvable bugs in the engine Modders have never been able to fix. Or only up to a point that is not really satisfactory.

Whatever you want to call Bethesda's engine, it absolutly is a fucking mess and it only gets worse every installment.

 

[fantadomat]

The engine is not a bad one,it does need shit ton of updating tho. The problem is how shit Bethesda are at using it.

There are multiple engine issues that Modders fix everytime a new game comes out and there are several unsolvable bugs in the engine Modders have never been able to fix. Or only up to a point that is not really satisfactory.

Whatever you want to call Bethesda's engine, it absolutly is a fucking mess and it only gets worse every installment.

They are the mess,not the engine. The modders fixing shit just shows that the problem is not with the engine but bathesda retards.

 

[Duraframe300]

The engine is not a bad one,it does need shit ton of updating tho. The problem is how shit Bethesda are at using it.

There are multiple engine issues that Modders fix everytime a new game comes out and there are several unsolvable bugs in the engine Modders have never been able to fix. Or only up to a point that is not really satisfactory.

Whatever you want to call Bethesda's engine, it absolutly is a fucking mess and it only gets worse every installment.

They are the mess,not the engine. The modders fixing shit just shows that the problem is not with the engine but bathesda retards.

Engine Bugs I said. And there are tons.
Also that doesn't absolve Bethesda at all. They have modified the Gamebryo Engine to said mess in the first place and continue to just stack shit on top.
Theres a reason the script extenders including plugins have become so essential for modding in Bethesda games. And there's a reason why even fully modded games still have bugs that will never be fixed.
Autosaves for example which are STILL borked and the cause of tons of bugs.

 

[TemplarGR]

Engine Bugs I said. And there are tons.
Also that doesn't absolve Bethesda at all. They have modified the Gamebryo Engine to said mess in the first place and continue to just stack shit on top.
Theres a reason the script extenders including plugins have become so essential for modding in Bethesda games. And there's a reason why even fully modded games still have bugs that will never be fixed.
Autosaves for example which are STILL borked and the cause of tons of bugs.

Enough with the fake news out of your asses, people...

Extenders are needed because some mods want to modify stuff that weren't made to be modified by the contruction kit of Bethesda. AKA to modify the engine itself.

Please, by all means, name me one fucking video game in the whole fucking universe that can have its engine modified without touching the fucking .exe and without using some kind of injection or script extender of some kind... I am waiting...

 

[Duraframe300]

Edit: I'm arguing with TemplarGR. No, not worth it. Too far.

 

[fantadomat]

The engine is not a bad one,it does need shit ton of updating tho. The problem is how shit Bethesda are at using it.

There are multiple engine issues that Modders fix everytime a new game comes out and there are several unsolvable bugs in the engine Modders have never been able to fix. Or only up to a point that is not really satisfactory.

Whatever you want to call Bethesda's engine, it absolutly is a fucking mess and it only gets worse every installment.

They are the mess,not the engine. The modders fixing shit just shows that the problem is not with the engine but bathesda retards.

Engine Bugs I said. And there are tons.
Also that doesn't absolve Bethesda at all. They have modified the Gamebryo Engine to said mess in the first place and continue to just stack shit on top.
Theres a reason the script extenders including plugins have become so essential for modding in Bethesda games. And there's a reason why even fully modded games still have bugs that will never be fixed.
Autosaves for example which are STILL borked and the cause of tons of bugs.

And i said that the engine itself needs a lot of updating. The engine have good core and is pretty good,the bathesda programmers are shit and can't fix even simple bugs.