Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Codex Interview AdventureDex: A Conversation about the State of the Adventure Genre

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,507
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Yea, GK1 came out at a time where gamers were encouraged to click on everything and be as thorough as possible in exploring each environment. It was a time before hotspots were the norm in adventure games.

Actually, in this case, the area where you found the clay was the same area where the game more-or-less explicitly told you to carefully search for evidence (it was a murder scene). So you typically picked up the clay by accident while you were searching around for other stuff (the snake scale, IIRC).

So it wasn't just the game expecting you to randomly click around some random area.
 

Boleskine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
4,045
Yea, GK1 came out at a time where gamers were encouraged to click on everything and be as thorough as possible in exploring each environment. It was a time before hotspots were the norm in adventure games.

Actually, in this case, the area where you found the clay was the same area where the game more-or-less explicitly told you to carefully search for evidence (it was a murder scene). So you typically picked up the clay by accident while you were searching around for other stuff (the snake scale, IIRC).

So it wasn't just the game expecting you to randomly click around some random area.
Sure, I agree. I didn't mean to say the exploration was aimless, it's just that the game and designers expected the player to be a little fearless in putting themselves in the shoes of the character.

Let's look at the clock puzzle. One of the main clues to solving that one is attained by
simply reading books in the shop.
That's something that I would classify as exploring a scene without any particular goal in mind, but when you tackled the clock puzzle the memory of that particular clue (if you got it) should have sprung to mind.

Exploring environments more thoroughly came a bit more naturally during that era (at least for me) because as these games came out the sheer experience of playing them was amazing. I remember wanting to click on and try everything, explore every nook and cranny of the old point and click games. I wasn't just concerned about solving puzzles - I wanted to live and breathe in these new worlds that I had never though possible to come alive on a computer screen like that.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
When I tried to play GK1 the first time about a year ago, I didn't even find the bedroom until I had spent hours in the game.
 

Boleskine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
4,045
When I tried to play GK1 the first time about a year ago, I didn't even find the bedroom until I had spent hours in the game.

My first playthrough I missed the
flashlight and hair gel in the bathroom.

GK1 is quite playable but it does have a small share of pixel hunting.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,717
Location
California
This is a little bit different because you're actively misleading the player, which is frustration causing.
I'm not sure it's actively misleading to allow a wrong path to carry on for some distance. That was pretty standard in classic games. Plus, it's called Gordium conduit! It's supposed to be a puzzle that's unsolvable using traditional approaches.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I'm not sure it's actively misleading to allow a wrong path to carry on for some distance. That was pretty standard in classic games. Plus, it's called Gordium conduit! It's supposed to be a puzzle that's unsolvable using traditional approaches.
If the puzzle is set up and the description of the conduit is "they look like they could fit together" or some variation of that, it would be actively misleading.
 

Jasede

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2005
Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Yeah, I am glad you cut that one. It's a neat little trick but the thing is, once the human mind finds one solution that seems to work - but you feel like you just aren't quite getting it - it stops looking for other solutions. I really don't think having that puzzle would have done the game any favors.

Now, how about adding a Hard-mode? Think like in MK2, or Brain-path in Indy IV; I think having such tricks would be okay if you specifically ask for them in a difficulty selection. Otherwise, puzzles like that are really just like those trick questions. Well, maybe not as bad.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,717
Location
California
No sense in spending the time to add a hard mode. For another game, maybe. I'm not sure you're right though -- a classic adventure technique (which someone else mentioned in the Primordia thread -- it was actually there that I meant to respond) was to have puzzles that looked like they could be solved one way, only to turn out to be solved in a difference fashion. Especially when you've got clues telling you that another way is possible, I'm not sure it's a flawed design. That said, what's gone is gone!
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,507
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I found this review of KQ6 that has some fairly monocled insights: http://www.popmatters.com/column/93339-kings-quest-vi/

Excerpt:

The opening section does an impressive job of imposing a real sense of being stranded on the player. The only money Alexander can find from the wreck is a single copper coin. The game emphasizes the poverty of this by allowing him to use it at the local pawn shop but only to buy one item at a time. He must swap out the item for another if he needs a different one. Although his signet ring proves to people that he is royalty, an audience at the castle reveals that the local Vizier intends to take control of the Kingdom by marrying Cassima. The few other items Alexander can scrounge up on the starting island are a boring book, an unlucky rabbit’s foot, and a free mint. You are forced to watch helplessly as Beauty is abused by her step mother while you explore. The signet ring, which has positive associations because it will get people to talk to Alexander, must be traded away for a magic map to even move around the surrounding islands. In this way King’s Quest VI begins with a real sense of narrative coherence by making the player feel desolate and reflecting that in the puzzles.

...

Another interesting change in the visuals is how much less complex VI is when compared to V. While King’s Quest V used its graphical enhancements to create lush scenery and artwork, the title suffered because players would often be confused or intrigued by something they’d see on the screen but were meant to enjoy only aesthetically. When King Graham is escaping the Roc’s nest high in the mountains, you can see a village off in the distance that you’ll never visit. When you are exploring the shops of the village, the walls are lined with items you cannot touch. King’s Quest VI features a much more conservative visual style that assumes the player is going to be looking with their own eyes than with the look command. Rarely is a place depicted that we will not go to at some point while items that we cannot interact with are faded and distant. Something is both gained and lost in this situation: the game is not as exotic as its predecessor, but it is the better design because it is less visually confusing.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,717
Location
California
Great find! I had never heard of Pop Matters until they reviewed Primordia, but they do seem to do good game analysis. A couple nice links off the article, too, to Roberta Williams interviews.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,507
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Great find! I had never heard of Pop Matters until they reviewed Primordia, but they do seem to do good game analysis. A couple nice links off the article, too, to Roberta Williams interviews.

Yes, unfortunately it seems like this L.B. Jeffries person stopped writing for them in 2010. I wonder where he is now.

EDIT: Ahaha, of course he's a lawyer. :D
 
Last edited:

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,717
Location
California
There is no finer species than the lawyer who loves video games. :salute:

[EDIT: It's his real name, or at least the name he practices under. Amazing that his pseudonym sounds like a Southern lawyer and his real name sounds like a science fiction novelist's pseudonym from the 1940s.]
 

MicoSelva

backlog digger
Patron
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
7,484
Location
Vigil's Keep
Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Divinity: Original Sin 2 Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
This is the single best gaming article I've read this year, and I am not even a huge fan of the genre, having only played a dozen adventure games maybe. Thank you, Infinitron, MRY and Steven Alexander.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom