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Game News Age of Decadence December Update

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
Why should I give you advice?
My apologies. For a second there, I actually thought you might have something to say. Sure fooled me, haha.

Even I managed to finish my UT and Quake 3 maps in my old modding days on time.
No way! You finished maps on time? Jesus Fucking Christ, dude, how did you do that, HOW?!! You must teach me, because what's an RPG if not a bunch of maps loosely put together?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
I can see how the combat demo and the upcoming "proper" demo (you may want to read the beta testers' impressions in the newspost above) might pale in comparison with Quake 3 maps, but not everyone is a super achiever like you. You'd be surprised how many people settle for less.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Angry Codexians trolling each other are dime a dozen, but at least VD is actually doing something. :salute:
 
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
262
Location
USA, NY
It's refreshing to see someone who doesn't think they know it all so I will try to give some quick advice.

First off I would be a little more aloof from the fan base. You need to develop a bit of a Michael Jackson mystique.

I'd start off by giving no release dates, and completely ignoring anyone who mentions them. Instead of monthly upates I'd move to carefully calculated pieces every three to six months, dropping a storyboard or something that doesn't spoil too much, try following some famous animators or movie makers to get a good example.

Then I'd write down a list of every open task and who's assigned to it, and I'd follow up with them twice a week, keeping track of how long they have worked on each task and their estimated time to completion. It's important to keep track of how much their completion time varies in relation to the estimation time. Assume it will be at least 2 to 1 but for some people it will be much higher because they feel pressure. If anyone doesn't work well like this, fire them, they are just not going to be reliable enough to risk wasting time on.

Once you see how the real time costs compare to the time estimates you'll be able to figure out how long you really have, and plan your marketing accordingly. You have kind of petered out and made news sources lose interest because you have been trying to blitz when you should have been trying to just get an occasional heartbeat out there once in a while. When you are maybe 6 months from absolute final completion (everything is done and you are happy, but you have to work out logistic details ansit) then go dark a while then POW complete media blitz with blurbs from prestigious Mitsoda game testers.

Then say something like "it's the final push! When we return we will no longer be mere men but GODS!!!". Then cache in your vacation hours. Go somewhere secluded. Cut yourself off from internet, and code code code. Or write write write or whatever it is you do.

In the meantime I'd get a laptop with all your game tools on it and take it to work. Don't even log in to codex, instead do your work there in the time you would have been eating lunch, while you take a dump, while you would have been posting on the codex about what assholes some of the oldfag trolls are. These spare moments add up to a huge amount of time. Be like a machine and don't worry about effort, even quality, just spend the time on it even if you are staring blankly a lot of the time. You can and will clean everything up many times anyway.


I disagree with this approach. I like seeing updates and giving feedback. I like the monthly updates. It's similar to the way my (or any successful) Indie Band acts. They can't afford to be out of touch with fans because they might seen as this as them dying or people might lose interest. You stay in touch and give you incentives for people not to forget you by offering screenshots or updates etc. I think it might also be good for the developers too; they need to see interest from others to stay motivated. None of this magic happens in a vacuum.
 

CreamyBlood

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,392
It's refreshing to see someone who doesn't think they know it all so I will try to give some quick advice.

First off I would be a little more aloof from the fan base. You need to develop a bit of a Michael Jackson mystique.

I'd start off by giving no release dates, and completely ignoring anyone who mentions them. Instead of monthly upates I'd move to carefully calculated pieces every three to six months, dropping a storyboard or something that doesn't spoil too much, try following some famous animators or movie makers to get a good example.

Then I'd write down a list of every open task and who's assigned to it, and I'd follow up with them twice a week, keeping track of how long they have worked on each task and their estimated time to completion. It's important to keep track of how much their completion time varies in relation to the estimation time. Assume it will be at least 2 to 1 but for some people it will be much higher because they feel pressure. If anyone doesn't work well like this, fire them, they are just not going to be reliable enough to risk wasting time on.

Once you see how the real time costs compare to the time estimates you'll be able to figure out how long you really have, and plan your marketing accordingly. You have kind of petered out and made news sources lose interest because you have been trying to blitz when you should have been trying to just get an occasional heartbeat out there once in a while. When you are maybe 6 months from absolute final completion (everything is done and you are happy, but you have to work out logistic details ansit) then go dark a while then POW complete media blitz with blurbs from prestigious Mitsoda game testers.

Then say something like "it's the final push! When we return we will no longer be mere men but GODS!!!". Then cache in your vacation hours. Go somewhere secluded. Cut yourself off from internet, and code code code. Or write write write or whatever it is you do.

In the meantime I'd get a laptop with all your game tools on it and take it to work. Don't even log in to codex, instead do your work there in the time you would have been eating lunch, while you take a dump, while you would have been posting on the codex about what assholes some of the oldfag trolls are. These spare moments add up to a huge amount of time. Be like a machine and don't worry about effort, even quality, just spend the time on it even if you are staring blankly a lot of the time. You can and will clean everything up many times anyway.


I love it when people that obviously have no software development experience think they can manage something so easily. As has been mentioned many times before, they were green and didn't know what they were doing, you have to learn to code, do the graphics, learn the engine, the scripting and find out that ideas in your mind don't work in reality plus much more. And it all takes time and you don't know how long it takes until you do it.

Try making an old 'dig-dug' game with an existing games engine and let me know how long it took you compared to your 'estimates' and 'deadlines'.

Anything of this scope can easily burn a person or small team out because it truly is overwhelming. Getting your first functional prototype running is usually where all the enthusiasm starts but it's really just the beginning of an incredible amount of work/drudgery. That they've stayed persistent and hung on for so long is admirable. I'm interested in the end-product and will buy it unless the demo doesn't appeal to me.
 

hiver

Guest
You know, i really think they moved well beyond level where they need such advice.
Besides, you dont really know how exactly they work, what is their daily situation or routine etc... so its really a "bit" superfluous.
Never mind down right wrong.

Especially that part about getting away from the fans. Thats the type of behaviour for mass market companies, not for indies like this.
I really suggest you go over at Iron Towers and read and get yourself acquainted with everything before giving such advice.
 

hiver

Guest
If you wan to translate what i said into that silly "quote" be my guest.

You should read more than just updates on their site. The interaction with members there is significant and valuable in more ways then one.
Generally get more info and then come back with your bullshit opinion.
Not that i aim to be insulting but basically it is simply - bullshit. Exactly the same as Morgoth going how there will be nothing of it and how they are actually not doing anything., dont know anything and blah, blah, blah.

The monthly updates are there to show that development is still going and to give something to members and fans they have, members that continued to provide their support for so long.
FACT IS that if they didnt do that they would loose majority. And thats their primary customer base.
And they cannot get new ones before they release at least a full demo so your suggestion is pointless and stupid!

The upgrades they did were simply a necesity and it only shows they have a serious intention to make a game that will actually sell.
Not just a prototype that would sink completely and destroy any chance of making another game in the future.

Basically, what you say comes off if you simply dont know what youre talking about and just spam some kind of general advice that you think is the best option for game developing.
So its pointless.
 

Morgoth

Ph.D. in World Saving
Patron
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
35,987
Location
Clogging the Multiverse with a Crowbar
I understand why the KKKodex is protecting the Führer. It's okay.

But if this shit isn't coming out with an updated engine that maybe also runs on Win 7 without crashing every 30 secs, then perhaps those fine chaps at ITS should find another hobby?

Plus I bet Black Mesa Source is coming out earlier.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I think Knotanalt's advice makes perfect sense as honest feedback from a potential customer who is only exposed to VD talking on the Codex / Codex newsposts. There are ups and downs to providing the kind of detailed updates Iron Tower does.

The only problem is, he tries to give advice about their entire work process based on a few dozen things he's read on the Codex. I don't think I need to explain why that doesn't work.

Anyway, this is nothing compared to what will happen when the demo comes out, when Volo will tell us NWN1 is so much better, and Morgoth will once again tell us everything in the world except the stuff he likes is shit. M:

P.S. You know I love you, Morgoth buddy.
 

hiver

Guest
I can take knotanalt suggestions as "meaning well" but they just dont make much sense for what i know of development of AoD.
Morgoth seems to me to have more of a "personal" issue with VD than anything else.
 

Mozgoëbstvo

Learned
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
812
Location
Od Vardara pa do Triglava
But yeah, seriously, Morgoth, what's your beef with the VD? And no, I don't want to read tons of old posts to find out, etc.
Your rivalry does not qualify as interesting Codex history.
 

Lonely Vazdru

Pimp my Title
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,700
Location
Agen
Instead of monthly upates I'd move to carefully calculated pieces every three to six months
You mad ? The amount of drama, butthurt and various witty dialogue exchanges induced by these mothly updates is priceless. I wish they could be made weekly.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
I'm pretty sure the Führer once wronged me. But I can't remember actually, it's been too long.

*oldfagdementia*

Fucking old fags. Isn't it time for your sponge bath or some shit?
 

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