Interview Age of Decadence - Defining RPGs Once Again

[Vault Dweller]

"What does make an RPG "good" then?"

If it's fuckin' fun. That's all that fuckin' matters.

:honourblade:

You shou'dn't 'cause it's true,a nd you agree. NWN OC has more C&C than BG does most most everybody on the Codex prefers BG to NWN OC. *shrug* KOTOR has more rping than most of BIO's other games; but its my least favorite. *shrug*

Truly a mystary. *shrug*

"...but now I want something more than killing monsters and watching "awesome" cinematics. I want to be able to decide what to do, when to do, and why. I want to decide, not to be told, who my allies and enemies are."

That doesn't make it more directed at an 'older audience' or 'mature' dumbnutz.

Did I say that it's directed at an older audience, dumbo? I used a reading age analogy, but never said or implied that we have some kinda target audience. We don't.

P.S. Stop trying to pimp TOEE as some sort of success. What you are trying to do is more masturbating of creative numbers control to get the result you want. TOEE was a failuire. If it wasn't; we'd be seeing that TEOE expansion or sequel that Troika and Atari were pimping. LMAO

That would explain why Baldur's Gate 3 - a game that would instantly sell a million copies - was killed and never revived. The BG saga was a failure.

 

[Double Ogre]

Troika's Temple of Elemental Evil, a turn-based DnD game, was the best selling Atari RPG in 2004 and the second best selling PC game, losing only to Unreal Tournament, which is quite an achievement for an isometric RPG.

The game sold only 128K units, get your facts straight.

 

[Vault Dweller]

In the first month.

Edit:

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6612

"This is incorrect. By a signficant factor. I was there when the royalty checks came in, and Arcanum did much better than that. I do not think the publisher would have written checks for copies that they hadn't sold.

I never heard a final number on ToEE, as I wasn't directly involved in it, but the number I recall for its first-month sales was more than this article claims it did overall."


Leonard Boyarsky:

"I don't have any actual numbers at hand (nor do I know whether I can reveal numbers per our contract, since I don't have that with me at the moment either), but to the best of my knowledge, ToEE was our best seller - or at least our fastest. The reason it's difficult to say is because our numbers were often being adjusted after the fact for arcane business reasons (on the publisher's end). I believe Arcanum is close to ToEE in sales, but Arcanum has been out alot longer and is at a much lower price point. Vampire hasn't been out long enough to really judge how well it will eventually do, as our games tend to continue to sell (as do all RPGs) longer than most. "

 

[Shagnak]

Gah.

 

[Volourn]

LMAO Still beating that 'Troika was a success but got screwed' horse. Troika, and their games bombed. Just deal with it.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Great job so far, Irontower.

 

[Vault Dweller]

There is a middle ground between "Troika was a success!" and "Troika was a failure!", don't you think, Volly?

 

[Krash]

The hater(s) are vomiting all over this thread, how unexpected.

The game looks mighty good so far. I'm actually tempted to buy the boxed version.

 

[Claw]

Knowing how it usually turns out to be (see Drakensang, M&B and Eschalon) I think AoD may come out pretty mediocre

Drakensang set out to be Baldur's Gate in 3D, and as far as I am concerned, has exceeded expectations. Eschalon is an enjoyable, although somewhat simple oldschool RPG. M&B was a bit disappointing because it didn't improve as much as many hoped, but quite frankly that was pure, naive trust. There was never a visible sign of that progress we hoped for.

I want something more than killing monsters and watching "awesome" cinematics. I want to be able to decide what to do, when to do, and why. I want to decide, not to be told, who my allies and enemies are.

Can't we have both?

Vice-President, Sales & Marketing in an evil marketing company.

Which reminds me.. kill yourself.

Or maybe just quit your day job and start making games fulltime.

 

[buccaroobonzai]

The fact of the matter is this:

Iron Tower is doing something different then anyone else is today. They have their own unique vision, a powerful vision which by itself is worth more then 10,000 Bethesda mass manufactured Troglodyte-level-sub-imagination-2D-Khan-thinking......gameworlds.

Spiderweb tries, and they are a good measuring stick of the greatness of the old,mixed with some new flavor, yet they are not perfect of course, for they miss on a some aspects of the classics. Then Eschalon tried and they hit the mark on some accounts and for some fans,but they missed the general exemplary creative masterpiece that defines some of the Ultimas.

AOD is in the very least a strving for the greatness of the Ultima works, and Fallout, Arcanum, and influenced by Prelude to Darkness. It has a very clear and solid foundation,it is being built upon the greatest ideas & works of the past, and extrapolating them in a natural evolution. AOD is taking everything good from the classics and using that as its basis, then adding its own spices for the "goal" of the perfect RPG gulash. It only matters that they have the highest standards in their goals, for whatever they achive with goals like these, which are achievable, and not "pie in the sky", will be to the n'th power greater then almost everything else out there.

It is most important that they continue to maintain this course whatever the results of their first game,as they will surely refine and perfect their art until they are very nearly at their envisioned result. Just think, AOD should at the least be better then any other RPG out there for fans of Fallout,Arcanum, and PtD, and that says a lot. At the best it will equal or possibly surpass those classics in some aspects. And that is a tremendous achievement for a first game. For all of what they have learned will be refined in Cyclopean, and the sci fi game and whatever they create after that.
The key is to maintain the course of their vision with no compromise, and no quarter.

 

[Gragt]

Or maybe just quit your day job and start making games fulltime.

You're gonna pay for his food, maybe rent, and all his other needs?

 

[Darth Roxor]

It's pretty funny how people keep mentioning that Choices & Consequences (TM) are probably the stuff that makes cRPGs most enjoyable, while my three most favourite ones have pretty much none of them (PS:T, Betrayal at Krondor, System Shock 2).

 

[Claw]

You're gonna pay for his food, maybe rent, and all his other needs?

Kinda, if his games are good enough.



(By that I mean I'll buy his games.)

 

[Shannow]

It's pretty funny how people keep mentioning that Choices & Consequences (TM) are probably the stuff that makes cRPGs most enjoyable, while my three most favourite ones have pretty much none of them (PS:T, Betrayal at Krondor, System Shock 2).

That is because we, the Codex spend unhealthy amounts of time arguing about what qualities a (good) cRPG should have. The two most entrenched factions seem to be c&c (VD) and oldschool dungeon crawl (mondblut). Other kinds of RPGs will rarely be referenced for their virtues. Don't let it bug you
The codex is a source of opinions and news about RPGs. Don't mistake anybody's opinion for facts. You just keep liking your games and calling them RPGs even if SS2 isn't one

I wouldn't win any street cred with my FO2, G2 and BG2 either^^

Thursday is coming...hopefully...maybe...probably not.

OMG, it was leaked!

 

[Gragt]

It is possible with a donations system, if you remember the Dwarf Fortress author. But he releases updates often and DF, while promising, is a far from complete game. I guess VD wouldn't want to feel tied up by accepting money from other people, but it's a guess. It would certainly be nice if he could manage to work full-time on it and I hope AoD will be successful enough to allow something like that for the future games, but as long as he can deliver a quality game, I'll happily pay for it.

 

[Darth Roxor]

You just keep liking your games and calling them RPGs even if SS2 isn't one

blatant lie

>

 

[FeelTheRads]

There is a middle ground between "Troika was a success!" and "Troika was a failure!", don't you think, Volly?

Just like his favorite company, Volourn never did know about the existence of shades of gray. Believing only in extremes, his already frail brain has cracked under the pressure causing him to constantly whine about whining and generally be a fucking moron.
It's a sad, but true story.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Knowing how it usually turns out to be (see Drakensang, M&B and Eschalon) I think AoD may come out pretty mediocre

Drakensang set out to be Baldur's Gate in 3D, and as far as I am concerned, has exceeded expectations. Eschalon is an enjoyable, although somewhat simple oldschool RPG. M&B was a bit disappointing because it didn't improve as much as many hoped, but quite frankly that was pure, naive trust. There was never a visible sign of that progress we hoped for.

Pretty much.

I want something more than killing monsters and watching "awesome" cinematics. I want to be able to decide what to do, when to do, and why. I want to decide, not to be told, who my allies and enemies are.

Can't we have both?

Empirical evidence says "nope". Compare Arcanum to Bloodlines. The visuals went up, the gameplay dropped. It's still a pretty good game, but not on the same level as Arcanum.

Or maybe just quit your day job and start making games fulltime.

That's my dream.

 

[Volourn]

"There is a middle ground between "Troika was a success!" and "Troika was a failure!", don't you think, Volly?"

they went out of business because THEY COULDN'T PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES' SALARIES. How much of a failure does one need to be to justa dmit it?

How then, would YOU determine if a company is a failure without using perosnal bias ala you like something yourself.

Remember, I like 2 of Troika's games yet I'm still willing to admit they failed.

And, oh, and its not a matter of shades of gray. There are shades of gray when it comes to success.

BIO is a success. Rockstar, and Blizzard are obviously more successful than them, though, right? See. Shades of gray.

Interplay is a failure; but Troika is even more of a failure. See, shades of gray AGAIN.


GAME OVER.

 

[Vault Dweller]

"There is a middle ground between "Troika was a success!" and "Troika was a failure!", don't you think, Volly?"

they went out of business because THEY COULDN'T PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES' SALARIES. How much of a failure does one need to be to justa dmit it?

Companies do go out of business. Sometimes for reasons that are outside of their control.

Was Black Isle a failure? No. Herve killed it because he wanted to focus on the console market. Had the dumbfuck renewed the DnD PC license for BG3 (instead of paying for the DnD console license), the company would still be around.

Sega just pulled the plug on Aliens. Two years of Obsidian's work (and hopes to make money) has just went down the drain.

EA may decide tomorrow that Bio isn't profitable enough...

Remember, I like 2 of Troika's games yet I'm still willing to admit they failed.

You are a good boy, Volly. Here is a cookie.

 

[Grog]

You are a good boy, Volly. Here is a cookie.

We all know what happens if you give a mouse a cookie...

 

[Volourn]

"Was Black Isle a failure? No."

Yes. Ultimately, they were. You go out of business, you fail. Business 101. Past successes are IRRELEVANT.


"Sega just pulled the plug on Aliens. Two years of Obsidian's work (and hopes to make money) has just went down the drain. "

Obsidian failed. If the rumour is true, and Sega canceled the game, it means Obsidian failed to provide what Sega wanted as the employer. This equals failure no matter how you cut it.


"EA may decide tomorrow that Bio isn't profitable enough... "

..., and decided to axe BIO, it means BIO ultimiately failed.

 

[Forest Dweller]

It's pretty funny how people keep mentioning that Choices & Consequences (TM) are probably the stuff that makes cRPGs most enjoyable, while my three most favourite ones have pretty much none of them (PS:T, Betrayal at Krondor, System Shock 2).

Blatant lie.

 

[Joe Krow]

Will AOD use a character based dialogue system or will it use scripted larping like in the old Fallout games? It seems like the people who decided rpgs should be as much about dialogue as combat forgot to design the system they would use in its place. Please tell me the roleplaying in this game will be more then an occasional skill check or bonus response. Can you tell us more about the dialogue system?

 

[elander_]

You can look for yourself. There are tons of examples in Irontower site. It's hard to find a dialog screen that isn't loaded with skill checks.