Preview Age of Decadence Demo Preview @ Gamebanshee

[RK47]

So... 6 stats + 12 dialogue skills + 11 combat skills + metagaming prescience required to raise them = best system evar (EVAR!!!!!) ?

You enter the merchant's bedroom. He stood there in terror as you draw your blade. His body guard several paces away. The night is young, your blade glints in the darkness.

Do you have Critical Strike at 40? If so, turn to page 43 to use it on the merchant.
Do you have Intimidation at 45? If so, turn to page 59 to use it on the merchant.
Do you wish to engage in combat? If so, turn to page 90 to begin the combat scenario.

*Hmm this is a hard choice...I better set a book mark here before trying combat*

So I died in combat. Yep. Let's flip back to last page again...hmmm. Ok. Let's try Critical Strike this time! I'm sure it'll turn out well. *Invest skill points on Critical Strike*

*Flips to page 43*

You quietly bend forward, swinging your blade upwards as the merchant's eyes follows your upper torso instead of your right hand. Crimson shower gushed as you withdrew your dagger from what was once his windpipe.

His bodyguard stood agape.

Do you wish to engage him in combat? If so, turn to page 23
Do you wish to tell him to leave? If so, turn to page 36

YES! Success! Merchant died! Good game of C&C!

 

[sea]

So... 6 stats + 12 dialogue skills + 11 combat skills + metagaming prescience required to raise them = best system evar (EVAR!!!!!) ?

Okay, perhaps a slight exaggeration - but still, Age of Decadence is definitely up there, and arguably the best in terms of game balance as it's very hard to name one skill that isn't useful (unlike, say, Vampire: Bloodlines). After so many games that have just been disappointing in terms of offering holistic character-building (and not just all combat, as in, say, Knights of the Chalice), I maintain I'm allowed to be excited about a game for once.

 

[RK47]

Oh. Yeah, I fucked up. *Flip back a page*. Let's try another approach. Oh this is good. *Places bookmark* Flips another page. Shit . Fuck. Shd've taken Persuasion. *Flips back to bookmarked page* Yada yada yada yada...oh success! *flips to another page* I'm having fun. *flips to another page.* damn I hope I don't have to fight anyone.. I should bookmark this just in case. *flips to another page* Oh shit. I died. Better go back to that book mark...and reinvest on sneak. *flips page* Oh, phew success!

That was a good book. Phew, can't wait for a sequel. Time to go back to emotional engagement.

 

[Excidium]

Dragon Age, however, doesn't just have a good character system, it has one of the best I've seen in a decade.

So... 6 stats + 12 dialogue skills + 11 combat skills + metagaming prescience required to raise them = best system evar (EVAR!!!!!) ?

Well, it's a good system (as good as something derived from SPECIAL can be) compared to what we usually get on cRPGs. Its main fault is the binary nature of skill checks, but that's part of the AoD design: Every replay is a different experience, but once in the game, you're railroaded.

 

[made]

Was there ever a game GameBanshee did not like (for what it was)? They gave GOTY to Fallout 3, never forget.

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

About the "hoarding points" issue: I also "collect" points, but I'm pretty sure some dialogue options only display when the skill level is high enough. So it's not really "see the options, reload, fix the build, choose the options", because the options themselves may be different.

Not entirely true. On the IG mission of assaulting the tower, I saw the options with my meathead pure fighter and I thought myself "they're both retarded, can't I take a third option?".
As it turns out in my rough'n'tumble merchant playthrough, there WAS that third option. But now I'm asking myself "how much intelligence and charisma would allow me to take that as a warrior?

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

My impressions from the demo is that it's a good game riddled with questionable design decisions. But these days I'll take what i can get.

Also hate to be that guy but this game would benefit so much from having a party instead of a single character.

Here, instead, I'd have to disagree, since it would get TOO easy. Pump CRAFTING and TRADING on a character, PERSUASION and STREETWISE on another... you see where I'm going. If it was a purely combat game with token RPG trappings
(Age of Decadence: Tactics) I'd agree.

As it is, it would be enough to take control of your meathead partners for the single fight you're in.

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

If you spread your points between combat and non-combat skills you'll get nowhere fast.

Not really true. I was able to finish the demo with three different characters built like this, going through three different questlines. I'd actually say it's probably the most entertaining way of playing the game. You will fail at many (most) skill checks, but this will open up different possibilities (and often some darkly humorous lines, which is VD's strongest point by far when it comes to writing). Perhaps more importantly, combat encounters change significantly based on partial/secondary skill check success. You may start fighting with more HPs and/or in a tactically superior position and/or fighting less (or injured) enemies and/or having more allies, all of which has a big impact on difficulty and makes up for lack of combat skill focus.

The only situation in the game where I'd say this is true (and the only combat encounter which I really think needs changing) is the praetor's first fight. With most encounters, even the choice between attempting and not attempting to use persuasion is significant, i.e. opting to fight right away if you know you're not much of a talker will let you start in a better position, but not here. In this particular situation, it's either pass the persuasion (or high etiquette) skill check, or you're facing one of the toughest fights in the game that is very hard to win without previous knowledge and preparation even for a 100% combat-oriented character. If you've decided your praetor is also interested in trading or alchemy, you're basically dead.

 

[Excidium]

My impressions from the demo is that it's a good game riddled with questionable design decisions. But these days I'll take what i can get.

Also hate to be that guy but this game would benefit so much from having a party instead of a single character.

Here, instead, I'd have to disagree, since it would get TOO easy. Pump CRAFTING and TRADING on a character, PERSUASION and STREETWISE on another... you see where I'm going. If it was a purely combat game with token RPG trappings
(Age of Decadence: Tactics) I'd agree.

As it is, it would be enough to take control of your meathead partners for the single fight you're in.

But at least you would have actual choice outside of the character screen.

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

If you spread your points between combat and non-combat skills you'll get nowhere fast.

Not really true. I was able to finish the demo with three different characters built like this, going through three different questlines. I'd actually say it's probably the most entertaining way of playing the game. You will fail at many (most) skill checks, but this will open up different possibilities (and often some darkly humorous lines, which is VD's strongest point by far when it comes to writing). Perhaps more importantly, combat encounters change significantly based on partial/secondary skill check success. You may start fighting with more HPs and/or in a tactically superior position and/or fighting less (or injured) enemies and/or having more allies, all of which has a big impact on difficulty and makes up for lack of combat skill focus.

The only situation in the game where I'd say this is true (and the only combat encounter which I really think needs changing) is the praetor's first fight. With most encounters, even the choice between attempting and not attempting to use persuasion is significant, i.e. opting to fight right away if you know you're not much of a talker will let you start in a better position, but not here. In this particular situation, it's either pass the persuasion (or high etiquette) skill check, or you're facing one of the toughest fights in the game that is very hard to win without previous knowledge and preparation even for a 100% combat-oriented character. If you've decided your praetor is also interested in trading or alchemy, you're basically dead.

And pray tell, esteemed Marquess, what combat and non combat skills did you raise for a single character?

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

Thief (thief quest line): sneak/lockpick/steal/bows/dodge with some minor raises in persuasion, streetwise and critical
Loremaster (assassin quest line): lore/persuasion/daggers/dodge/critical with some minor raises in sneak and trading
Merchant (Commercium quest line): trading/streetwise/lore/axe/block with some minor raises in critical, etiquette and disguise

Some of the skills turned out not very useful and all of the builds tended to get slightly combat-heavy towards the end, but none was too difficult to complete, the loremaster being perhaps the easiest of the three.

 

[Mozgoëbstvo]

By "minor raises" you intend raises big enough to pass a sorely needed skill check, to be later abandoned?

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

By "minor raises" you intend raises big enough to pass a sorely needed skill check, to be later abandoned?

In one case that I know of, sneak for loremaster. It wasn't sorely needed but improved the odds in a combat encounter. Others were mostly skills I thought could be interesting to have in the beginning but passed over later. The one skill check I remember I had to save up SP for was a crucial lockpick check in the thief quest line.

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

I'm gay for sea as much as the next guy, but why on earth would you write a preview/review of a demo/public beta? Everyone who is interested in the game can download the beta for free and try it out themselves.

 

[felipepepe]

I'm gay for sea as much as the next guy, but why on earth would you write a preview/review of a demo/public beta? Everyone who is interested in the game can download the beta for free and try it out themselves.

Do you download every single demo that gets released, or first try to see if anyone else tried it and it's worth the time? The whole point of the preview/review is "hey bros, there is this demo/game, you should check it out."

 

[commie]

This is realistic and refreshing to see, but it also means that sometimes you'll feel like you don't have as much choice as you really do. This can encourage hoarding of skill points right up until the last minute you need them, rather than the more "build character now, deal with situation later" approach that the majority of other RPGs hinge on

Which is the thing that weirds me out most. I like skill input, I like combat difficulty, but the feeling for me is more "see the consequences, THEN tailor your character" than "make a character, then feel C&C, biatch".
I have the feeling, though, that most of this is caused by the limited scope of the demo and a teensy weensy bit of world exploration BEFORE finishing all of Teron quests will help a lot in the final game.
...amirite?

Exactly this. I can't shake off the temptation to get to a dialogue, try my skill then reload or restart and pack in the points for said dialogue if I don't succeed. Had there been more to do in the world, actually having to walk places, explore etc. then I daresay that I wouldn't leap so quickly for the reload/restart and just go with it. It's what I like about Bethesda games, even though the consequences are minor and the skill check threshold a bit low, as on the occasion that I reach a dialogue with a skill check, I tend to live with the consequences as I'm hardly likely to play through a few hours of game again.

Maybe it's the small scope of the demo that makes it so tempting. I doubt that if I had to replay 5 hours of game just to succeed at some dialogue later on that I'd bother.

 

[J_C]

This is realistic and refreshing to see, but it also means that sometimes you'll feel like you don't have as much choice as you really do. This can encourage hoarding of skill points right up until the last minute you need them, rather than the more "build character now, deal with situation later" approach that the majority of other RPGs hinge on

Which is the thing that weirds me out most. I like skill input, I like combat difficulty, but the feeling for me is more "see the consequences, THEN tailor your character" than "make a character, then feel C&C, biatch".
I have the feeling, though, that most of this is caused by the limited scope of the demo and a teensy weensy bit of world exploration BEFORE finishing all of Teron quests will help a lot in the final game.
...amirite?

Exactly this. I can't shake off the temptation to get to a dialogue, try my skill then reload or restart and pack in the points for said dialogue if I don't succeed. Had there been more to do in the world, actually having to walk places, explore etc. then I daresay that I wouldn't leap so quickly for the reload/restart and just go with it. It's what I like about Bethesda games, even though the consequences are minor and the skill check threshold a bit low, as on the occasion that I reach a dialogue with a skill check, I tend to live with the consequences as I'm hardly likely to play through a few hours of game again.

Maybe it's the small scope of the demo that makes it so tempting. I doubt that if I had to replay 5 hours of game just to succeed at some dialogue later on that I'd bother.

Well force yourself to play without reloading and skill point hoarding. If you are playing the way you told us, you are basicely cheating.

 

[commie]

This is realistic and refreshing to see, but it also means that sometimes you'll feel like you don't have as much choice as you really do. This can encourage hoarding of skill points right up until the last minute you need them, rather than the more "build character now, deal with situation later" approach that the majority of other RPGs hinge on

Which is the thing that weirds me out most. I like skill input, I like combat difficulty, but the feeling for me is more "see the consequences, THEN tailor your character" than "make a character, then feel C&C, biatch".
I have the feeling, though, that most of this is caused by the limited scope of the demo and a teensy weensy bit of world exploration BEFORE finishing all of Teron quests will help a lot in the final game.
...amirite?

Exactly this. I can't shake off the temptation to get to a dialogue, try my skill then reload or restart and pack in the points for said dialogue if I don't succeed. Had there been more to do in the world, actually having to walk places, explore etc. then I daresay that I wouldn't leap so quickly for the reload/restart and just go with it. It's what I like about Bethesda games, even though the consequences are minor and the skill check threshold a bit low, as on the occasion that I reach a dialogue with a skill check, I tend to live with the consequences as I'm hardly likely to play through a few hours of game again.

Maybe it's the small scope of the demo that makes it so tempting. I doubt that if I had to replay 5 hours of game just to succeed at some dialogue later on that I'd bother.

Well force yourself to play without reloading and skill point hoarding. If you are playing the way you told us, you are basicely cheating.

Not really cheating when you are basically going blind, warping from one dialogue to the next. In traditional RPG's you can anticipate what skills you are going to need or even if you cannot, you can avoid certain areas until you are equipped for them, doing something else while building up your character(s). In AoD you have no idea whether the next dialogue will allow you to avoid combat with 'persuasion' or 'streetwise' or both when you needed 'etiquette' for the one you just passed, particularly if you are under equipped for combat in the first place. Since there's no way of avoiding the dialogue and nothing much else to see or do, you have to either accept a less than optimum outcome through no fault of your own or reload and put your points into the correct skills.

Like I said, I'm hoping that the full game opens up, that there's the potential to do a few things at once rather than basically one linear path as the demo is. In such a case, you could avoid taking on the major quest in order to scrape up some skill points doing side quests or picking fights and in doing so I'd be more comfortable to just live with my character's build and take the bad along with the good.

 

[villain of the story]

It's great to see gears of PR at work when hardly anybody is aware of AoD at all and practically nobody knows or even cares about a demo being released. That certainly bodes well for the full release. Public at large can't wait for it.

Therefore, they don't.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Dragon Age, however, doesn't just have a good character system, it has one of the best I've seen in a decade.

So... 6 stats + 12 dialogue skills + 11 combat skills + metagaming prescience required to raise them = best system evar (EVAR!!!!!) ?

The system is good because all skills are useful, which, once you know what you're doing, can create very different characters.

It's great to see gears of PR at work when hardly anybody is aware of AoD at all and practically nobody knows or even cares about a demo being released. That certainly bodes well for the full release. Public at large can't wait for it.

Therefore, they don't.

Ran out of things to bitch about?

CYOA lol...

Isn't that how skill checks work? Or you against them, all of a sudden?

 

[Darth Roxor]

The system is good because all skills are useful, which, once you know what you're doing, can create very different characters.

'Best I've seen in a decade'?

Okay, perhaps a slight exaggeration - but still, Age of Decadence is definitely up there, and arguably the best in terms of game balance as it's very hard to name one skill that isn't useful (unlike, say, Vampire: Bloodlines).

Fair enuff

 

[Vault Dweller]

The decade wasn't very generous to us, was it?

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Sea I lost all respect for you with this "preview". One day you might be able to claw your way back into my affections, but that day is merely the tiniest spec on the horizon. Whether that little dot gradually becomes more distinct or vanishes entirely is up to you.

Who are you, again?

 

[anus_pounder]

So much butthurt and rage on both sides. Age of...Rage ? I can't wait for the full release. MASSIVE amounts of popcorn.gif material.

 

[Excidium]

CYOA lol...

Isn't that how skill checks work? Or you against them, all of a sudden?

But the fun of stat checks is actually applying your skills, bonus if it's in a creative or smart way that the game recognizes. Like how you use dex to climb the vines on Feng's house and lockpick to open the ceiling hatch to his bedroom, a lot of people miss that because it isn't simply shoved in their face through a text adventure.