Game News Age of Decadence Demo Released

[Infinitron]

I've only commented on claims about the combat's difficulty.

Perhaps you should comment on these other things as well.

 

[commie]

To back up DU and Ulminati I found myself constantly restarting to get a build that would pass the skills checks. Fail? No problem, restart put the points into persuasion then go on. Fail again? Oh, I needed a few in lore as well? No problem, I'll restart and move the points around a bit more. The fast travel actually becomes a boon for gaming the system rather than just being a shortcut. Had I had to walk around the town over and over I daresay I would have accepted my fate more often than not.

Were the game more open this would be avoided as you'd more than likely just go off and do something else, building up your skills before coming back, at worst just reloading to before the failed skill check and not restarting the game. More likely though, by this time you'd have invested so much time in other pursuits, training, sidequests that you'd accept a failure more easily without the temptation to just reload mechanically in order to pass the series of dialogue encounters in the most efficient way.

 

[Infinitron]

Were the game more open

Well, this is a demo.

 

[felipepepe]

The AoD demo is easy when you know exactly what every dialogue option is going to entail, the exact mechanics used to resolve combat, the skill tresholds needed for options and which persons to speak to in which order to obtain the optimal gear. The game is perfect and we are all retarded for not posessing encyclopedic knowledge of the demo the first time we play it.

Yes, DU nailed, but aren't the favorite games around here like that too?

Didn't you raged in Fallout 1 when the game asked you to have not one, but two ropes to explore the vault? How many mages you made until you understood what spell build is actually good in Arcanum? How many fucking times you got wiped in Jagged Alliance 2, slowly understanding the game and building better merc squads? FFS even Wizardry-connoisseur Mrs. Bee went to look on guides to LP W4...

I've played shitloads of the demo this weekend, and started to see the logic behind it, and got rewarded by that. And what's fantastic is that like JA2, metagaming does not break the game. In F2 you can start, run to San Fran, steal the shopkeepers and get a Enclave Armor + unlimited money at lv 3, or make overpowered critical/eye-shot characters, but AoD instead challenges me to do things the hard way: "Oh, so you know combat? Then take out the mine guards, bitch."

That's good design, you can finish the demo "easy mode", avoiding tough fights/checks, or go after some real challenges. The best rewards are not in a hidden place that you can easily acess in your second playthrough metagaming, but behind tough challenges that will requires all your skill AND metagaming to win. That's what keeps me coming back, trying to do stuff like killing the 3 muggers, inflitrating the palace or saving the dude from the ambush.

For once, I'm glad to finally have another game to throw myself in and get rewarded.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Now of course the interesting question is what is the role of this "beta". Is it just reinforcing our pre-existing opinions (and identifying bugs) or do you actually want actual feedback?

The feedback, of course. Naturally, some things can (and will) be change, some can't.

I see the same issue as others have pointed out - after living and breathing AoD for months (or years), the testers and developers are both quite blind so some glaring features in design.

That's not the case. We're well aware of most issues that were reported here (see our Nov update, for example), but being aware and knowing how to fix (without changing everything that is good and/or spending another year just on fixing this demo) are two different things.

Perhaps you should comment on these other things as well.

Serves no purpose. We're reading posts, taking notes, and discussing internally. It's one thing to argue with people who say that combat is impossible and swords are useless - these claims are simply not true, it's another to argue with people who didn't like the game for one reason or another. Are they wrong? No.

 

[Regdar]

This has been said a million times already, but I'll repeat: the combat in this game is fucking brutal. But the most frustrating thing is that it's not a difficulty-based problem, not really... I just stand there, whacking the other guy with what I've calculated to be the best AP:Hit%:Damage ratio attack with no additional options other than using situational items of limited usefulness.

Playing the mercenary and putting all points into my preferred weapon skill since I reckon getting more hit% is the most optimal way of increasing my chances in combat. I get the game is old school so you actually have to weigh your options instead of fighting everyone you can for exp and loot (and I did skip the assassin fight after getting raped on my first try - no complaints about that one), but I hope it's a reasonable expectation of mine that by picking the only specialized fighter-type class in the game that I would be able to experience as much of the game's combat as possible.

I'm assuming combat gets more fast-paced and dynamic with counterattacks and shit later in the game when combatants have capped their hit ratings. Right now I feel like the player's options in combat are lacking. Some simple defensive moves like "spend 4 AP this turn to get 4 AC and 2 DR until the end of the round" or active offensive abilities as opposed to chance-based passive ones would do the game some good, in my opinion. Not to presume the creators haven't though of all this, but fights - at least the low level ones - place the player in a pretty helpless position of watching his character make 2-3 misses and hitting the spacebar over and over until combat is resolved.

Another issue I have is that fade-to-black is overused. My guess is it was done to minimize time spent on seemingly stupid shit like walking from point A to point B, which is a proposition I am all for, however, it ruins immersion. The start of the game feels like a flashback my character is having rather than a coherent introduction to the game and its world designed to get me interested.

P.S. Please consider adding a high resolution font for 1080p.

 

[commie]

Were the game more open

Well, this is a demo.

That's what I'm hoping. I'd rather not have the entire game boil down to 'guess the next skill' dialogue slides. About the only thing that makes sense with the current approach is that it's a way of forcing you to develop your character to fit the chosen background during the opening few hours so that the 'assassin' doesn't just merge with the 'thief' or vice versa as happens in other games. It's an approach that gives the illusion of letting you do what you want but in effect it skews progress towards a certain build for each class. At least that's what I hope it is...if it's all like this then I'll be disappointed.

It's one thing to argue with people who say that combat is impossible and swords are useless - these claims are simply not true, it's another to argue with people who didn't like the game for one reason or another. Are they wrong? No.

I just feel that it's missing things that would really round out the experience and make it a full fledged RPG (exploration, party combat). I don't dislike it, just that I'd like MOAR!!! I know that it's too late in the development cycle to do much about that now and God knows I don't want to wait another half decade. I hope that regardless of the reception it gets that you don't give up and make another one instead. You've got experience now, the engine down, the world, the mechanics....now you just need to do a Fallout 2 and put in stupid shit make it bigger and better in a shorter time!

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

P.S. Please consider adding a high resolution font for 1080p.

Bigger fonts are already shipped in the demo, VD already stated that they are working on it ASAP, and I have posted a quick hack on the first pages of this thread on how to work around this issue. Size 15 is the one you want to replace to get bigger fonts in dialog.

 

[Infinitron]

Candara font (from the ITS forums):

 

[Elwro]

The "e" letter in the PC lines is different from the "e" in Dellar's line. And it's weird.

 

[Yaar Podshipnik]

I actually liked the original font for dialogs. I just want it bigger.

 

[Gord]

Well, in case it helps anyone, I used 1400x900 (16:10, down from 1680x1050) and the fonts are definitely readable enough, while still preserving aspect ration of my wide-screen monitor and giving a high-enough resolution.

 

[Elhoim]

The "e" letter in the PC lines is different from the "e" in Dellar's line. And it's weird.

It's a WIP shot where only the main text has the font. I'll upload a new one.

EDIT: Uploaded.

 

[Tigranes]

As has been pointed out, I think a big part of the stat-gaming tendency you get in the demo is the range of quests; there are only 4 or 5 options, at most, for you to take to earn more skill points/gold within the demo. If the demo's "FULL GAME IS" ad is correct about ~120 quests well, that's a lot more than I would have thought based on the demo-Teron, so good stuff.

I also don't know if the whole 'stuck in Teron then sent to Maadoran' deal is true in the full game, but I assume at the very least, after Teron, the world will open up.

 

[curry]

The "e" letter in the PC lines is different from the "e" in Dellar's line. And it's weird.

It's a WIP shot where only the main text has the font. I'll upload a new one.

EDIT: Uploaded.

Great, you just replaced the old picture, making Elwro look like a idiot. I approve.

 

[Elwro]

He did? The old one still displays for me :D Do I need to clear my cache or what?

 

[Gord]

If the demo's "FULL GAME IS" ad is correct about ~120 quests well, that's a lot more than I would have thought based on the demo-Teron, so good stuff.

Well, if the full-game will offer much more content in Teron/the early game, maybe the demo should give you a couple more skill points, as well, so you can diversify your character a bit more, or rather, make it so that you aren't screwed if you did not have the clairvoyance that seems necessary at times to raise the right set of skills.

Just to "simulate" the side-quests you might have done in the full game.

 

[DwarvenFood]

When playing on a laptop in one of the higher 16:9 resolutions the font is definitely too small. changing to a 4:3 resolution it becomes manageable, but like some mentioned before, lines could be shorter and dialog window moved down toward the response choices.

As for the game, it might be an idea to include an "arena" mode, what I mean is - apart from the main "campaign" or "story" or whatever you want to call the main game, include an arena battle mode, where you can create a character, pick some basic equipment and fight battles in an arena, progressing from easy to more difficult encounters, as to be able to practice combat and tactics without resorting to reloads and restarts of main game and also eliminating the need for a classic tutorial.

Will play more tonight.

 

[Vault Dweller]

As has been pointed out, I think a big part of the stat-gaming tendency you get in the demo is the range of quests; there are only 4 or 5 options, at most, for you to take to earn more skill points/gold within the demo. If the demo's "FULL GAME IS" ad is correct about ~120 quests well, that's a lot more than I would have thought based on the demo-Teron, so good stuff.

Depends on how you count and what's a quest, but I'd say there are about 30 quests in Teron: 7 vignettes, 12 guild quests (3 x4), 2 Dellar's quests, 2 Daratan quests, Feng's quest, Flavius' quest, Cado's quest, Miltiades', refugees, the pickpockets, the cellar, plus minor stuff like the ring, the infiltration, etc.

I also don't know if the whole 'stuck in Teron then sent to Maadoran' deal is true in the full game, but I assume at the very least, after Teron, the world will open up.

Keep in mind that the world is mostly ruins. You need to know where you can go, but we'll give you 3-4 places to start with in the full game (like Aemolas' gold quest).

 

[J_C]

Do you know what is one of my favourite thing in the game? The map screens, both the town screen and the world screen. The latter reminds me of BG2, it has a nice style to it. How I missed those from modern games.

 

[Flatlander]

As for the game, it might be an idea to include an "arena" mode, what I mean is - apart from the main "campaign" or "story" or whatever you want to call the main game, include an arena battle mode, where you can create a character, pick some basic equipment and fight battles in an arena, progressing from easy to more difficult encounters, as to be able to practice combat and tactics without resorting to reloads and restarts of main game and also eliminating the need for a classic tutorial.

This.

 

[PrzeSzkoda]

OK, so I played the demo quite extensively, time to comment.

It's good, I like it. If the full game's going to be crafted the exact same way, I want it NAO.

Combat seems to be the main spot of bother here, so I'll comment on it first. It's brutal, but good. Fun. Takes a lot of reloading at first, though. I have not played the combat demo since its first release, so I had to re-learn the system from scratch (I forgot what it all was about + the changes are very extensive.) I still have to figure out what type of melee dude to make to beat the whole Imperial Guards questline (crossbow is easy - the easiest to play, I think, these things are brutal - gotta try bows sometime in the future.) I guess it might be mostly due to the fact that I tend to dump constitution in favor of other stats, but I'll see about that tonight (I might also have to try some heavier armor, but I like my APs ). So do not worry, bros, YOU CAN DO IT. Just tinker with your builds some more, the game is really made with multiple playthroughs in mind so making a new character and getting him considerably far into the game is not bothersome at all. And it really drives me to try different approaches and retry a lot simply to see whether my dude can do it (I think I must have taken 10 attempts to beat all of Militiades' goons - BTW is he in Teron after the ordeal? I'd like to pay him a visit.) So no complaints here, I guess.

I think I used to bitch that "ze writingz needz a editar!", but comparing the early sneak peeks to the demo assures me that it's no longer a problem. If the game in its entirety gets the same amount of polish the demo got, it's gonna be really good. Any oddities are very minor. Good work.

As to other things: I love all of 'em questlines (though I still have to do Imperial Guards and try a Praetor.) Lots of neat stuff to do. My favorites would be either the Assassins Guild or the Forty Thieves, I still haven't decided. Lots of options, support for many builds, lotsa fun. Finally a game where I feel my character's skills actually make a difference.

Lovin' the text adventures, especially infiltrating the Palace. Although these do encourage hoarding skill points - since you never know which skill you'll have to up to advance and not fail/die, especially with non-combat builds (although my strictly non-combat thief character did manage to beat some dudes up after a failed skill-check thanks to the help of some friends.) I found myself craving for more skill points quite often.

Two technical issues, though: I get the occasional CTD when loading a savegame (runtime-error-something). The camera is a bit wonky, too, especially when playing with a touchpad, but I guess that's Torque for you. Adding detailed camera controls description to the help text would have been nice, I had to experiment due to being too lazy to look it up over at the ITS forums. No performance issues here.

All in all, the game's shaping up to be something quite unique. I've not played anything quite like it yet (maybe Prelude to Darkness, but I did not get very far due to constant crashing.)

 

[Vault Dweller]

Thanks.

 

[Livonya]

VD, have you folks considered just giving people the ability to choose a difficulty level?

What I would suggest is that the difficulty level only gives extra starting skill points, and nothing more.

So if someone wants to play it on "easy" then they would for example start with 20 extra skill points. On easy the game will start out super easy and will slowly get harder as those extra skill points become less and less important over time.

This wouldn't involve much codding and it would let you keep your vision without having to make it easier. Everyone wins, and you won't have to fight with people about the difficulty as much.

I actually prefer the current difficulty, and I only bring this up because I fear in some small ways all the complaining will influence you to make it just a tad easier even if you don't want to do that.

You could have 3 or 4 settings.... even 1 that was harder.

Seems simple and if it relieves some of the complaints then you can get past this "difficulty debate"

 

[Vault Dweller]

VD, have you folks considered just giving people the ability to choose a difficulty level?

What I would suggest is that the difficulty level only gives extra starting skill points, and nothing more.

We did think about it. Haven't decided anything yet.

I actually prefer the current difficulty, and I only bring this up because I fear in some small ways all the complaining will influence you to make it just a tad easier even if you don't want to do that.

It won't.

However, we need to tweak the THC formula because it rewards focusing on dodge/block too much. Defense is king at the moment and we want to change that. Naturally, changing the formula will change the difficulty instantly (probably making it even harder), so we'll need your help (and everyone else who likes the difficulty) to balance it the right way.

Are you registered on our forums?

Seems simple and if it relieves some of the complaints then you can get past this "difficulty debate"

Fuck 'em. Simple solutions for simple problems.