Age of Wonders 4

[Infinitum]

This obviously goes well beyond "staying relevant". Anyone who played an AoW game in their life surely understands how utterly ridiculous giving t1 unit 150hp and 25dmg spread over multiple channels is. I'd understand the ability to create t1/2 units that are able to trade cost-effectively with some t3-4 under certain circumstances (sort of like properly upgraded pikemen sometimes could in AoW3), but not something like this. They fixed the pace of higher tiers appearing on the battlefield compared to PF, but their attractiveness is even worse now.

It's a start. In an ideal game, I see no problem with having early units being more cost-effective in a straight trade, with subsequent tiers adding versatility and force multiplying effects. I guess until patches/expansions fixes it there's also stacking Keeper's Mark with Swarmers (or the Shadow magic unit upkeep reduction) and the support hero upkeep reduction ability for a -40% upkeep reduction for elite stacks.

 

[Norfleet]

The Gold golem would be more powerful at the same experience level

I don't think higher-tier units gain medals at the same rate as low-tier units. IIRC, from previous editions, higher tier units require more XP to level up. Can't get this to run on my computer so I don't know how it works here, but if it's the same, a straight medals-to-medals comparison isn't necessarily accurate given the differing XP costs to accomplish it.

 

[BING XI LAO]

A classic way to counter a high-level unit (if it only has single target attacks) should simply be an archer stack, since only one archer will die per turn. On the other hand if a high level unit has AoE, then maybe it shouldn't be beatable by low tier units generally, better to approach with a buffed tier3 1v1, say. There are so many ways to approach the problem with basic mechanics. Limiting production of high-tier units is still done best in AoW1 where city sizes are preset, so if you have a city producing dragons, most of the rest of your holdings is still stuck making archers and swordsmen. Hearing that there is an "imperium" cookie clicker resource mechanic is just another reason to never play this game. Instead of faggy "imperium" should've added a HoMM-style resource set like mercury, sulfur, gems, crystal. If gold and mana weren't enough. Maybe tier4s would pay upkeep to use their powerful attacks, then you would want to have mundane troop backup for non-crucial battles. SO MANY WAYS to handle this without whatever turbofaggotry "imperium" is. Stellaris is shit btw

 

[Norfleet]

The problem is that you don't have "A" high level unit, you have multiple, and you can't counter them with archer spam because of the arbitrary stack size limit, meaning you will not be able to outnumber the enemy with cheaper units.

 

[Raghar]

That's fine. i don't think low tier units SHOULD outperform high tier ones (and of course Zboj is WRONG about that, too).

You realize you were just shown a screenshot of a t-fucking-1 unit having more hp, more dmg, more defense and 2 less resistance than t5... right?

Yeah, it's also the comparison between a T1 unit leveled up to "Legendary" (max rank) vs a tier V one just spawned and with no rank at all, you fucking dimwit.
Not to mention several high tier units have spells and special abilities that go past the merits of just their base stats.

So how much more stats would T1 unit get when leveled to legendary?

 

[Demo.Graph]

Yeah, I haven't followed the series in years. Last time I took a poke at was in 3, which was hilarious because it seemed like the sequel was a targeted attempt at nerfing everything I was doing in 2.

You should. I think that, unlike many other series, including AoW, the balance changes generally improve the game. Devs sometimes get carried away, so that single tactic dominates in the lategame (blood in Dom2, gemgens + SCs in Dom3, turboblesses in Dom4). In Dom5 lategame mass enchants dominate, but oversized armies can be nuked, and you really should use the variety of tactics.
Devs had added event scripting to Dom5, so it's very viable in singleplayer. I've mostly played it in SP, when I had the time.

 

[Lacrymas]

Another absolutely hilarious exploit - you can declare wars on your own vassals, conquer them, then revassalize them to farm bodies, resources and loot every turn.

 

[Raghar]

>Attack skill 7

>Prot 40

And resistance to piercing, blunt, and slashing.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

It's a start.

I dunno, to me it rather feels like a step back compared to ideas for the t4 debacle that PF had, other than fixing the obvious issue of having to play like 100yo turtle in order to even see them. Coming back to one of my previous posts, it now mostly hinges on what they are planning to do with the tome circus and how will it impact the viability of the highest tiers.

Instead of faggy "imperium" should've added a HoMM-style resource set like mercury, sulfur, gems, crystal. If gold and mana weren't enough. Maybe tier4s would pay upkeep to use their powerful attacks, then you would want to have mundane troop backup for non-crucial battles. SO MANY WAYS to handle this without whatever turbofaggotry "imperium" is.

100% agreed here. Affinity trees also feel like something added just so that you have something to spend the imperium points on (and I guess adding it took much less effort than creating actual mechanics, like npc factions that were the biggest influence sink in PF) and they could just be mixed into normal research for added benefit of it being better paced and more varied. Unfortunately, for a modern paradox game having an empire mana is probably as mandatory as trash collecting and crafting is for modern open world rpgs.

 

[Fedora Master]

Another absolutely hilarious exploit - you can declare wars on your own vassals, conquer them, then revassalize them to farm bodies, resources and loot every turn.

Again, these are extremely obvious loopholes that should have been caught in alpha.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

All that's left is luring Infinitron in to post social media updates so that the playerbase will plummet.

 

[Lagi]

Maybe tier4s would pay upkeep to use their powerful attacks, then you would want to have mundane troop backup for non-crucial battles.

this is a great idea. I would like to see it implemented.

It remind me how brilliant was in Total Annihilation spin-offs (Escalation, BAR) to use Energy as ammo for some late tier units. You use them to break the front, but dont want to use them all the time cause it hinder your economy.
In HMM late tier units need a pinch of rare resources to be produced, sometimes it prevent you from getting all the toys you want.
Fantasy General 2 introduce tons of new resources (armors, weapons, mana). At first i was very sceptic, but i enjoy how nicely it limit access to most wanted units. Just resource variety/scarcity can make absolute trash unit, the only viable option in current situation. Enviroment can affect the selection too, as is in BroodWar Firebats are rather bad units, but become a good pick to clash under DarkSwarm.

 

[Blutwurstritter]

It is good that the economic empire upgrades are no longer competing with spells and units for research, as was the case in AoW III. There were just to many no brainer empire upgrades, basically must-haves. But I agree that the Imperium and affinity mechanics are dull. There is generally too much of a disconnect of the economy gameplay and the "martial" part of the game. You clear the nodes/wonders and that's it. Building up your city and expanding it should be harder and require more fighting/exploring. At the moment you just have to let the turns pass by. Your city is basically guaranteed to develop into an economic powerhouse if you wait long enough. I'd like it, if higher tier buildings required artifacts or rare resources that you'd have to gather. Currently there is fairly little to do for heroes, its just stretched out due to the rather low move speed on the overland map. AoW III also had much more neutral structures, the number of ancient wonders and monster dens is meager.

 

[Fedora Master]

All that's left is luring Infinitron in to post social media updates so that the playerbase will plummet.

Nah, they didn't spring for the Complete Shilling Platinum Package or he'd already be in here.

 

[BING XI LAO]

All that's left is luring Infinitron in to post social media updates so that the playerbase will plummet.

Nah, they didn't spring for the Complete Shilling Platinum Package or he'd already be in here.

Odd since they sure did buy a lot of youtube reviews.

 

[Lagi]

if higher tier buildings required artifacts or rare resources that you'd have to gather.

yes, absolutely. Need dragon eggs to build a Dragon Nest to be able to produce dragons. Or you could just sell them or eat them for extra skill for your hero.
Wyrmsum (indie rts, clone w2) have a concept where there are predestined magic location on the map where you could build temples to create magic casters. This is a great twist to the turtling meta. Its the same as shipyard or builderguild in AoW1, you need to control them on the map. And it feels more natural than Strategic Points in DawnOfWar.

a

a feature that one can hate apparently

 

[Lacrymas]

More types of resources is always good in 4X games and similar genres (like Total War) because it promotes map control and expansion.

 

[Dwarvophile]

Triumph studios really sucks for sound and music, no improvement since AoW3. Are the campaigns worth playing or should I go directly to the maps ?

Also wtf, moles now ? Those news races feels totally redundant with existing ones : toads, we already had nagas for amphibian, why bring up another underground race on top of dwarves, goblins and now ratmen. Is it just plain retarded or something I don't see ?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Are the campaigns

Also wtf, moles now ? Those news races feels totally redundant with existing ones : toads, we already had nagas for amphibian, why bring up another underground race on top of dwarves, goblins and now ratmen. Is it just plain retarded or something I don't see ?

Races are just skins and don't matter at all.

 

[Dwarvophile]

Are the campaigns

Last AoW3 campaign with the undead frostlings was really good.

Also wtf, moles now ? Those news races feels totally redundant with existing ones : toads, we already had nagas for amphibian, why bring up another underground race on top of dwarves, goblins and now ratmen. Is it just plain retarded or something I don't see ?

Races are just skins and don't matter at all.

Well, skin matters to me.

Random guy complaining about new races on Reddit, his first sentence is : "First I want to clarify than I'm not racist towards moles"

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yeah, the add-on AoW3 campaigns were good. This one has like 5 or 6 "story realms" which are RMG with some quest/story presets. Think PF "campaigns". Only those were actual campaigns on the technical level, here there's no continuity, no hero transfer etc.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Yeah, the add-on AoW3 campaigns were good. This one has like 5 or 6 "story realms" which are RMG with some quest/story presets. Think PF "campaigns". Only those were actual campaigns on the technical level, here there's no continuity, no hero transfer etc.

It plays a lot like Civ with more/better combat. It's not nearly as deep as Civ, but still.

 

[Dwarvophile]

So in my first campaign I allied with the enthralled orcs faction, since they were evil like me and we were at war against the same faction. After a few turns I see how relation going to shit and they start breaking treaties. I check in the diplomatic screen and surprise, the enthralled orcs have now switched their alignment to good. I don't remember anything like that in the previous game, it's weird.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

It is good that the economic empire upgrades are no longer competing with spells and units for research, as was the case in AoW III. There were just to many no brainer empire upgrades, basically must-haves.

I think the research pacing is really bad and the fact that after reaching your desired higher tier tomes you can absolutely blitz through all the lower ones is a major contributor behind the dumb enchantment stacking. Keeping the empire upgrades where they previously were is not only a good way to fix it, but also potentially make cultures no so boring. It would also add c&c and mix things up a bit instead of picking 6th similar unit for your lineup. I dunno, I just don't see anything that is gained from that tree other the typical modern design loop of one arbitrary mechanic reinforcing another so it can be reinforced by yet another one in turn.

 

[Blutwurstritter]

It is good that the economic empire upgrades are no longer competing with spells and units for research, as was the case in AoW III. There were just to many no brainer empire upgrades, basically must-haves.

I think the research pacing is really bad and the fact that after reaching your desired higher tier tomes you can absolutely blitz through all the lower ones is a major contributor behind the dumb enchantment stacking. Keeping the empire upgrades where they previously were is not only a good way to fix it, but also potentially make cultures no so boring. It would also add c&c and mix things up a bit instead of picking 6th similar unit for your lineup. I dunno, I just don't see anything that is gained from that tree other the typical modern design loop of one arbitrary mechanic reinforcing another so it can be reinforced by yet another one in turn.

They keep you busy with these systems and it works for a while, but I think we agree that all those systems are very superficial and flat. The game lacks tough choices that lead to unique/meaningful outcomes.
And the research system is indeed very broken. Going through the tomes in increasing tier order, as the game suggests with the tome selection, seems to serve hiding the fact that you can even fairly early 1-turn through most of the tier I/II tome research options, which contain some of the best stuff. You don't have to wait long to do so, and you can easily double/triple the damage output of tier 1 archers and shield units. I'm playing a High Culture archer focused game right now and its silly how quickly it gets out of hand due to the damage stacking by picking the tier 1 tomes that give elemental damage enchantments.