Development Info Aliens RPG cancelled, Obsidian fires staff, future in doubt

[Shannow]

They can do - but they don't want to. And that's why they deserved this.

Nobody stops them from doing a good game without any unneeded for RPG genre fancy graphics, with a budget of Arcanum and the team of the same size as Troika - but whoops! It won't bring as much profit as a generic console shooter with stats (and will tank because Obsidian can't program and optimize for shit)

That's right they deserve to lose theirs jobs and not feed their families because you aren't getting your precious Might and Magic 1 and Wizardry clones. You remind me of an old hippie who thinks no music released after Woodstock is worth listening to. You never ever have anything remotely intelligent or constructive to say whatsoever do you? I'd tell you to go shoot yourself in the head but seeing at your skull is completely hollow the impact might cause your head to totally collapse around your neck.

Foamhead

 

[NiM82]

They can do - but they don't want to. And that's why they deserved this.

Nobody stops them from doing a good game without any unneeded for RPG genre fancy graphics, with a budget of Arcanum and the team of the same size as Troika - but whoops! It won't bring as much profit as a generic console shooter with stats (and will tank because Obsidian can't program and optimize for shit)

That's right they deserve to lose theirs jobs and not feed their families because you aren't getting your precious Might and Magic 1 and Wizardry clones. You remind me of an old hippie who thinks no music released after Woodstock is worth listening to. You never ever have anything remotely intelligent or constructive to say whatsoever do you? I'd tell you to go shoot yourself in the head but seeing at your skull is completely hollow the impact might cause your head to totally collapse around your neck.

He has a valid point though. There's loads of smallish independent studios who turn a tidy profit, by focussing on the niche they excel at. Take Kereberos, the team behind Sword of the Stars. They like making 'hardcore' 4X space games. They know full well it won't make as much $$$ as Gears of War, that it won't appeal to the casual crowd, but hey there's a captive market for that sort of game! By keeping their studio lean and mean and focussing on what they do well, they turn a tidy profit and have a loyal fan base. They didn't really sacrifice anything either visually. You don't need to spend a fortune these days to make a game look 'nice'.

Obsidian seem intent though on becoming Bioware Jr, looking at their product lineup, their expansion, etc. Going for the epic slam dunk. There's more money there, if they are very lucky, but the risks are much, much higher and they aren't necessarily the best suited to it. Good cRPG designers don't necessarily make good 3rd person shooters, etc. Take Bloodlines, you could tell from a mile away Troika had been struggling with it. The repetitive/actiony combat was fucking awful, the level design quality was all over the show, only really coming together for the first hub, even the quality of character models was inconsistent (check out the people in the clubs). But luckily the dialogue was consistently awesome -- lucky for us that is.

It's tight for the guys who have lost/are going to lose jobs, but it doesn't change the moral of the story: Trying to be everything, to everybody is a sure fire way to end up in tears.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

They can do - but they don't want to. And that's why they deserved this.

Nobody stops them from doing a good game without any unneeded for RPG genre fancy graphics, with a budget of Arcanum and the team of the same size as Troika - but whoops! It won't bring as much profit as a generic console shooter with stats (and will tank because Obsidian can't program and optimize for shit)

That's right they deserve to lose theirs jobs and not feed their families because you aren't getting your precious Might and Magic 1 and Wizardry clones. You remind me of an old hippie who thinks no music released after Woodstock is worth listening to. You never ever have anything remotely intelligent or constructive to say whatsoever do you? I'd tell you to go shoot yourself in the head but seeing at your skull is completely hollow the impact might cause your head to totally collapse around your neck.

He has a valid point though. There's loads of smallish independent studios who turn a tidy profit, by focussing on the niche they excel at. Take Kereberos, the team behind Sword of the Stars. They like making 'hardcore' 4X space games. They know full well it won't make as much $$$ as Gears of War, that it won't appeal to the casual crowd, but hey there's a captive market for that sort of game! By keeping their studio lean and mean and focussing on what they do well, they turn a tidy profit and have a loyal fan base. They didn't really sacrifice anything either visually. You don't need to spend a fortune these days to make a game look 'nice'.

Obsidian seem intent though on becoming Bioware Jr, looking at their product lineup, their expansion, etc. Going for the epic slam dunk. There's more money there, if they are very lucky, but the risks are much, much higher and they aren't necessarily the best suited to it. Good cRPG designers don't necessarily make good 3rd person shooters, etc. Take Bloodlines, you could tell from a mile away Troika had been struggling with it. The repetitive/actiony combat was fucking awful, the level design quality was all over the show, only really coming together for the first hub, even the quality of character models was inconsistent (check out the people in the clubs). But luckily the dialogue was consistently awesome -- lucky for us that is.

It's tight for the guys who have lost/are going to lose jobs, but it doesn't change the moral of the story: Trying to be everything, to everybody is a sure fire way to end up in tears.

A valid point. It certainly happened to Origin (not even taking into account the EA disaster), with the road to failure starting at precisely the point that they began deviating from their RPG roots to action games.

 

[jiujitsu]

Sega has been in and out of business since the Genesis got replaced. They should have known better than to do business with that shit hole company.

Publishers are fucking Satan scum.

Long live Feargus.

 

[MetalCraze]

Stardock is only able to develop and publish niche games and get by financially because of their steady line in Windows apps, you asshole. And Stardock only started publishing their own work because they found that when their niche games were published by a third party, their cut of the revenue was nowhere near adequate! Are you saying that the way forward for the industry is for all developer studios to stop making games, start producing utility software and hopefully sign a deal with Microsoft?

Stardock doesn't make millions on small utilities - they develop games since mid 90s and their games turn in 2 or 3 times more money than they spend on them (fact) - no matter if it's their own game or published by them - they give money. Even EA games don't do that. And you can see that EA is failing now - so f.e. instead of one sequel to NFS this year we have 3 fucking sequels of it.
But to understand all that you first must become less dumb fanboy and stop with your "we must forgive Obsidian any shit because you can make money only with big AAA titles". By the same flawed logic we can protect EA. But the reality is - it doesn't matter how you make money - what matters is those guys don't deserve pity.

What did Obsidian do good? MotB. A low-budget(and it wasn't omg shaderz 5.0 bloom AAA title) short expansion to piece of shit that is NWN2 (and they force you to buy NWN2 if you want to play MotB). 1 good game in 5 years.
MotB certainly brought profit - otherwise SoZ would've never happened.

Sega is also known to be a failure among publishers - Obsidian decided to work with them knowing that.

 

[kris]

BAAAAWWWWWWWW

All the God of whine needs to say.

 

[youhomofo]

Why should we give a damn about Obsidian's employees? I'm a consumer, not a fucking philanthropist. I want a decent game. It brings a smile to my face to see a company go under for trying to appeal to the largest common denominator and producing steaming piles of shit with pretty graphics. With any luck this economic fiasco will drive more and more of these companies out of business and we'll see more independent developers sprouting up to fill in the gaps with inspired products.

 

[crakkie]

Long live Feargus.

 

[Silellak]

1 good game in 5 years.

Hey, that puts them one ahead of you, at least.

Let us know when you actually contribute something worthwhile to the world, though.

 

[youhomofo]

1 good game in 5 years.

Hey, that puts them one ahead of you, at least.

Let us know when you actually contribute something worthwhile to the world, though.

I guess I should never criticize music because I'm not a musician, huh?

That is the dumbest, most ignorant argument I've ever seen. Why the fuck won't it die?

 

[BethesdaLove]

1 good game in 5 years.

Hey, that puts them one ahead of you, at least.

Let us know when you actually contribute something worthwhile to the world, though.

I guess I should never criticize music because I'm not a musician, huh?

That is the dumbest, most ignorant argument I've ever seen. Why the fuck won't it die?

Because you are an idiot and this is The Codex.

 

[made]

These are rough times indeed for the gaming industry. Layoffs on a daily basis, major studios closing left and right...

Personally, I think piracy is to blame for all this.

 

[Luzur]

That's right they deserve to lose theirs jobs and not feed their families because you aren't getting your precious Might and Magic 1 and Wizardry clones. You remind me of an old hippie who thinks no music released after Woodstock is worth listening to. You never ever have anything remotely intelligent or constructive to say whatsoever do you? I'd tell you to go shoot yourself in the head but seeing at your skull is completely hollow the impact might cause your head to totally collapse around your neck.

keep Might & Magic out of this, show some respect for the dead, dammit.

maybe it will end in a return to the 80's style of making games, with small (showing up overnight) developer companies or alone programmers?

as sort of restart of the whole business.

 

[MetalCraze]

1 good game in 5 years.

Hey, that puts them one ahead of you, at least.

Let us know when you actually contribute something worthwhile to the world, though.

"youre welcum to do a bettar gaem urself"

 

[WanderingThrough2]

This may be an example of "creative destruction" as well. When BIS went under, nothing worthwhile was lost (their best games plainly were behind them), and out of the explosion came Troika, which brought us Arcanum and Bloodlines, and Obsidian, which brought us KOTOR 2 and MOTB. Now Obsidian was turning into a movie tie-in second-rate developer making games with unhealthy budgets. Presumably all the talented guys will land on their feet, make some games with soul, before they need to lose their jobs again to wake them up.

 

[Silellak]

1 good game in 5 years.

Hey, that puts them one ahead of you, at least.

Let us know when you actually contribute something worthwhile to the world, though.

I guess I should never criticize music because I'm not a musician, huh?

That is the dumbest, most ignorant argument I've ever seen. Why the fuck won't it die?

There is a significant difference between legitimate criticism of things in a certain medium, and constantly whining about those things day in and day out in every damn thread.

Can you guess which category Skyway falls into?

1 good game in 5 years.

Hey, that puts them one ahead of you, at least.

Let us know when you actually contribute something worthwhile to the world, though.

"youre welcum to do a bettar gaem urself"

You don't have to make a game in particular; just contribute something to the world besides being a whiny little douche.

 

[MetalCraze]

And what did you contribute to the world?
I'm whiny little douche? The one who is whining is you, because I dared to talk bad about your favorite developer studio that made only 1 good game, while making 4 mediocre ones.
You see - when I'm criticizing something - it is whining - it needs to die but somehow you forget that I equally wank to the good games.

It is better to be an elitist wanting good things than a moronic fanboi who will accept any shit coming his way just because that studio has some man who did a good game 10 years ago.

 

[VonVentrue]

I wish Obsidian could shed some light on the matter.
Hopefully, they'll manage to stay afloat despite the recession.

This may be an example of "creative destruction" as well. When BIS went under, nothing worthwhile was lost (their best games plainly were behind them), and out of the explosion came Troika, which brought us Arcanum and Bloodlines, and Obsidian, which brought us KOTOR 2 and MOTB. Now Obsidian was turning into a movie tie-in second-rate developer making games with unhealthy budgets. Presumably all the talented guys will land on their feet, make some games with soul, before they need to lose their jobs again to wake them up.

There's an error in your ways of thinking. Troika's regretfully gone out of business and the cRPG genre as a whole most certainly did not benefit from its closure - if anything, the games have only been getting progressively worse.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Well, it's not the first and definitely not the last time someone drops a game-in-development, so I don't believe it'll mean an instant bankruptcy and closing of the studio.

It's still a friggin shame though.

 

[Silellak]

And what did you contribute to the world?
I'm whiny little douche? The one who is whining is you, because I dared to talk bad about your favorite developer studio that made only 1 good game, while making 4 mediocre ones.
You see - when I'm criticizing something - it is whining - it needs to die but somehow you forget that I equally wank to the good games.

It is better to be an elitist wanting good things than a moronic fanboi who will accept any shit coming his way just because that studio has some man who did a good game 10 years ago.

When did Obsidian become my favorite studio? I think they're talented developers who haven't had a chance to reach their full potential due to various reasons. They've made some games I enjoy. And, as a software developer myself, it's always sad to me to hear about my peers potentially losing their jobs, especially given how difficult it is to find NEW jobs nowdays.

My favorite modern development studio right now is actually probably Stardock, both because of their DRM philosophy and the fact that every game they've released recently has been solid. On the subject of Obsidian, I think MotB alone is reason enough to want them to stay around. Even if they only released 1 "good game" a year every 5 years, that's more than most modern studios manage to shit out.

Just because I point out you're a whiny elitist who repeats the same criticisms of games/studios/etc. over and over and over until you're red in the face doesn't mean I'm a fanboy of the games or studios you happen to be criticizing. I do find it somewhat disgusting that anyone would wish ill will on people simply because the company is making video games - you know, a FUN HOBBY at most - that they don't happen to like, but then, this is the Codex.

So-called Elitists aren't better than Fanboys, they just have a different irrational behavior. Fanboys love everything a company or person does regardless of quality, while Elitists hate everything that doesn't meet their ridiculous standards. I mean, all the more power to you for being an Elitist, I guess, but I'd rather lower my personal bar and be able to enjoy more games than look down on "the peasants" who dare to enjoy things that may be as great as games that came out during the Golden Age.

Video games are about HAVING FUN, after all. If you aren't having fun with modern games, maybe you should find a new hobby?

 

[racofer]

If you aren't having fun with modern games, maybe you should find a new hobby?

Another shinny example of argumentation.

 

[Silellak]

If you aren't having fun with modern games, maybe you should find a new hobby?

Another shinny example of argumentation.

Yeah, it's totally unreasonable to suggest someone find a new hobby if they are no longer enjoying their current hobby.

I always forget that video games are SERIUS BIZNESS GUYZ.

 

[racofer]

If you aren't having fun with modern games, maybe you should find a new hobby?

Another shinny example of argumentation.

Yeah, it's totally unreasonable to suggest someone find a new hobby if they are no longer enjoying their current hobby.

Indeed. Avoid the problem instead of facing it, that's the best solution.

 

[Starwars]

Once again, endlessly bitching about something doesn't change it. Codex is notoriously bitchy (though good arguments can also be found of course), and the fact that skyway is made fun of every now and then for being bitch even *here* should tell you something.

Nevertheless, I won't understand the opinion that some are happy about the fact that people are losing their jobs. Making games (even bad ones) isn't a very malicious thing after all.

 

[Silellak]

If you aren't having fun with modern games, maybe you should find a new hobby?

Another shinny example of argumentation.

Yeah, it's totally unreasonable to suggest someone find a new hobby if they are no longer enjoying their current hobby.

Indeed. Avoid the problem instead of facing it, that's the best solution.

Facing it? What the fuck are you going to do, whine your way into getting better games?

Christ, this is a forum on the internet, you aren't going to change a damn thing about the industry here. The most you can do as a consumer is only buy the games you enjoy. If you really want to change something, make your own game and work your ass off to try and make it successful.