Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Another example of Fallout's superiority over Fallout 2

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
How much do you know of the Master, the Nightkin army of Unity, and the Children of the Cathedral from just a conversation with the Master?

Very little.

Instead, the game doesn't give any major exposition. You are left carrying the pieces of the background from ten different places - Harold's story of Dr. Richard Grey, West Tek Research Facility records on FEV research, the brief limited explanations by the Lieutenant of the Master's Army, the brief limited explanations by Jain, Morpheus, other major Children,.etc, the diary of Dr. Richard Grey from Mariposa Military Base, the Brotherhood experiment results, and more.

In other words, Fallout didn't turn to complete exposition mode onto you, and instead worked the narrative into its medium. It also did it in a way that had you figuring what to do and where to go - a part of the problem solving in the game. It's also likely that you'll end Fallout the first time having little idea of what really happened, perhaps no idea, or only as much as you wanted to know.

On the other hand, Fallout 2 has two long speeches by the President of the United States and the head of the Enclave Chemical Research Facility about the history, background, and bizzare motivation of the Enclave. To make it worse, the Enclave's plan to exterminate American mainlanders is so completely contrived that it seems unfeasible and makes no sense - even though the Enclave is full of sane, balanced, unmutated human beings, and not the mentally broken creatures of the FEV experiments and the delusional fanatics of the Cathedral. The latter's plan still makes more sense!

TLDR: Fallout's narrative works better as a game; Fallout 2 does a lore dump on you.
 

bhlaab

Erudite
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
1,787
Actually if you use the Tell Me About button you get a ton of info about all of those things from the major talking head characters.
 

DragoFireheart

all caps, rainbow colors, SOMETHING.
Joined
Jun 16, 2007
Messages
23,731
Hobo Elf said:
Narrative might be better, but the plot is still shit in both games.

At least the way the plot is told in both games is pretty good (still better in Fallout 1).
 

Daemongar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 21, 2010
Messages
4,756
Location
Wisconsin
Codex Year of the Donut
Hobo Elf said:
Narrative might be better, but the plot is still shit in both games.

Yeah, man the plot in FO was shit. I'll bet you could name 3 average RPG plotlines that are better, eh?
 
Self-Ejected

Drog Black Tooth

Self-Ejected
Joined
Feb 20, 2008
Messages
2,636
Fallout 2 had no focus. For the majority of the game you're just visiting a string of random towns, and then BAM! the main plot appears out of the blue.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium

P. banal
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
13,696
Location
Third World
Drog Black Tooth said:
Fallout 2 had no focus. For the majority of the game you're just visiting a string of random towns, and then BAM! the main plot appears out of the blue.
Yeah, and that's the fun of it. Just travelling to new places, doing quests, beating enemies, getting stronger...
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
8,831
But the narrative isn't what I'd call good there. ;) Actually, the only real narrative is the forced cutscene where you get shown how evil Frank Horrigan is (slaughtering innocents etc) or some small tidbits about the enclave here and there. The rest is just you fucking around in a themepark world - which isn't bad - but I prefer a bit more tighter narrative.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
8,831
No, but usually one sides suffers from the overpresence of the other, it's very hard to do a tight narrative when the whole world lays open to the character and he can go anywhere he wants.. That's also a reason why the actual main story of both of the Fallout games are rather short, I think.
 

sgc_meltdown

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
6,000
cinematic exploration

probably the only way to have a good all rounder with scale is to have tons of well written little events all over the place that you can take part in as you please with big obvious story arc go-forwarders

otherwise you will have to sacrifice the scope and amount of indepdent gameworld sections and make everything relevant in some way to the single story event, meaning a much smaller yet detailed active area like Dead Rising 2 or a large one with less than a dozen large quests and very little sidequests

the price of freedom is eternal compromise

or you could make the mythical nonlinear rpg with amazing timeless branching story and hundreds of varying sidequests that all interact with one other and have solutions for each skilltype and react differently to different characters with twelve ending slides for each location and a dozen party members with all with the malleability of the nameless one and who have their own independent goals and can change the gameworld as much as your main character does according to their individual philosophies and needs upon each moment

and also the graphics and music have to be good as well and the combat better not be shit and the interface should be deep and attractive yet functional

yes that will be acceptable
 

Destroid

Arcane
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
16,628
Location
Australia
sgc_meltdown said:
cinematic exploration

probably the only way to have a good all rounder with scale is to have tons of well written little events all over the place that you can take part in as you please with big obvious story arc go-forwarders

otherwise you will have to sacrifice the scope and amount of indepdent gameworld sections and make everything relevant in some way to the single story event, meaning a much smaller yet detailed active area like Dead Rising 2 or a large one with less than a dozen large quests and very little sidequests

This is the way Morrowind and Oblivion work, no?
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Messages
626
"Fallout 1 is superior because I have the free time and the inclination to replay it the countless number of times required to identify and retain the main plot"

Okay.
 

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
Shoot, Mickey Mouse, you are still edgy. I thought you'd grow out of that phase, but come ON!

FTR, I have only played Fallout twice, and all these thoughts have been on my mind in a recent playthrough of Fallout 2.

As it is, I don't intend to play these games any more number of times now. Other things to do and other entertainment to check out, gaming or nongaming.

PS: Drog Black Tooth, as is often the case, is completely right.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Excidium said:
Drog Black Tooth said:
Fallout 2 had no focus. For the majority of the game you're just visiting a string of random towns, and then BAM! the main plot appears out of the blue.
Yeah, and that's the fun of it. Just travelling to new places, doing quests, beating enemies, getting stronger...

Just like a MMORPG.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Daemongar said:
Hobo Elf said:
Narrative might be better, but the plot is still shit in both games.

Yeah, man the plot in FO was shit. I'll bet you could name 3 average RPG plotlines that are better, eh?

BG2
Torment
M&M7
 

Havoc

Cheerful Magician
Patron
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Messages
5,521
Location
Poland
Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath
Surf Solar said:
Mastermind said:
Daemongar said:
Hobo Elf said:
Narrative might be better, but the plot is still shit in both games.

Yeah, man the plot in FO was shit. I'll bet you could name 3 average RPG plotlines that are better, eh?

BG2
Torment
M&M7

:what:

From Zero to Hero and he could be a God. It's a good 0-to-awesome story, better than DA:O and DA2 for example.
 

attackfighter

Magister
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
2,307
BG2's plot is pretty good. It mainly gets bashed because it's not edgy enough, or something. Meanwhile Fallout is praised because you can shoot the overseer at the end for no reason, which is "EPIC LULZZ FTW!!!11!1!!!!" (or so codexers think...)
 
In My Safe Space
Joined
Dec 11, 2009
Messages
21,899
Codex 2012
attackfighter said:
BG2's plot is pretty good. It mainly gets bashed because it's not edgy enough, or something. Meanwhile Fallout is praised because you can shoot the overseer at the end for no reason, which is "EPIC LULZZ FTW!!!11!1!!!!" (or so codexers think...)
Yeah, the linearity and having to fight Irenicus 3 times is SO awesome.
 

Serious_Business

Best Poster on the Codex
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
3,918
Location
Frown Town
Mastermind said:
Excidium said:
Drog Black Tooth said:
Fallout 2 had no focus. For the majority of the game you're just visiting a string of random towns, and then BAM! the main plot appears out of the blue.
Yeah, and that's the fun of it. Just travelling to new places, doing quests, beating enemies, getting stronger...

Just like a MMORPG.

Fucking 1998 bandwangon newfags
 

attackfighter

Magister
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
2,307
Awor Szurkrarz said:
attackfighter said:
BG2's plot is pretty good. It mainly gets bashed because it's not edgy enough, or something. Meanwhile Fallout is praised because you can shoot the overseer at the end for no reason, which is "EPIC LULZZ FTW!!!11!1!!!!" (or so codexers think...)
Yeah, the linearity and having to fight Irenicus 3 times is SO awesome.

All plots are linear and I don't see the problem with confronting a villain multiple times. In Twitcher you have multiple encounters with both The Professor and Mr. Jarvid, yet no one has ever complained about that.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom