Anyone addicted to Morrowind?

[Realbumpbert]

Download 'Dracandros' Voice' or 'Give Your Orders' for better guild progression. Also download Wakim's Game Improvements for various minor fixes (enemies flee, people like you less when you talk to them with a weapon out, services come at a certain rank).

Download Cortex's Vampire Embrace for a MUCH better vampire experience (you can talk to NPCS, with some difficulty, and you can infect minions).

Morrowind is flawed, but mods such as the ones above correct many of the really annoying ones.

 

[Anonymous]

I wish games with easy to use mod tools and all that wouldnt hambone their original game (Morrowind and NWN come quickly to mind there).

 

[Lord Caio]

The answer to all your questions is:

Bethesda sucks

Easy to say, but what're profeshunal RPG that doesn't f...cks published in the last two years?

MW is a step forward, even if not at all in the good direction.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Thanks for the pointers, realmbumpert However, i don't have neither Tribunal or Bloodmoon, so Vampire Embrace by Cortex will have to wait (according to the file in Morrowind Summit, it requires both XPs).

 

[Spazmo]

Well they did make Daggerfall. But that was 6 years before Morrowind. So I suppose things can change in 6 years.

Six years ago, Black Isle Studios made Fallout 2.

 

[Vault Dweller]

TOEE is *SO* more linear then BG. At some stages of BG you are actually quite free to explore the wilderness or Baldur's Gate itself. It just has choke points where you have to do something in order to progress. It is at least as free as Arcanum, or PS:T, or U7:SI but not as free as U7 or Morrowind. Plus, you could easily have a fairly non-linear adventure game, so linear != adventure game.

OMG! I can wander around the city and then I can go anywhere in the city! The non-linearity unleashed!
Now, ToEE gives you several ways into the Temple, one is directly from the Moathouse, I think at least 5 ways to beat the game (one allows you to banish Zuggtmoy without fighting), different factions inside the temple, and as Spazmo pointed out variety of endings based on your actions.

Are you talking about the same BG where they practicaly say "You can't go in the city yet, come back in a later chapter"?

No it must be some other BG I didn't get, I got stuck with the linear one

Yeah, I think I got the linear one too. May be there was a special edition or something

 

[Realbumpbert]

Thanks for the pointers, realmbumpert However, i don't have neither Tribunal or Bloodmoon, so Vampire Embrace by Cortex will have to wait (according to the file in Morrowind Summit, it requires both XPs).

Hmm...you might try an earlier version. It's too bad if you can't, cause slowly converting a town to a legion of vampiric slaves (coupled with animating corpses to serve as guards to the citizens) is infinitely more rewarding than going on generic killing sprees.

 

[Limorkil]

I've been playing Morrowind almost to the exclusion of all other games since it was released. (I took a break to play DAoC and AC2 for some months, which I regret.) It is one of the best games I have ever played and I can understand why it can be addictive.

Unfortunately, MW is far from perfect, and the novelty does wear off. I realy only play it now just to finish the main quest, which I have never done before, and to complete both expansions. I still consider it a great game, but it does not hold my attention for long periods of time.

The main problem with MW is that the world never really changes and your actions amount to very little. The game is very open-ended, but there is not a lot of satisfaction to be had from roleplaying a character. You can become the head of one or more factions; you can fulfil a prophecy and become a demi-god of sorts; you can kill everyone on the island. The trouble is, none of the NPCs react to these actions in any meaningful way. Sure, the flexibility is admirable, but the game leaves you feeling empty and without closure.

I agree with people who call MW "shallow". There is very little depth. The quests are generally straightforward and unsurprising, with only a few exceptions. However, the dialogue system is the main culprit for making the game shallow. It makes the NPCs seem like vending machines rather than people. You pretty much know what the NPC is going to say in 99% of cases because all 3000+ NPCs have almost the same dialogue. Also, there are hardly any meaningful dialogue choices. Where you do get a choice of responses, it is almost always obvious which choice to pick and the character concept you are roleplaying is rarely going to make any difference to your choice.

That said, the shallowness of the game does not irk me too much, although I can see how some people will hate it. I am more annoyed by two other flaws in the game:
(1) One of the most boring melee combat systems I have experienced
(2) The difficulty, or lack thereof.

Combat systems are one of those things that people have widely differing opinions of in RPGs. Personally, I prefer systems where your character's skills affect the outcome but you - the player - has to exercise some skill as well, or at least apply some thought. I am rarely completely satisfied with combat in an RPG and I am sure I am not the only one. Regardless of your personal preference, the combat system in Morrowind is hardly likely to be satisfactory. Melee combat is just a matter of hitting the same key over and over. There is no offense/defense strategy; there are no combat feats or other options; you can pause the game and drink an unlimited number of potions mid-swing; you almost always hit your target and your target almost always hits you - the only defensive action is an automatic block that can occur if a combatant carries a shield; there are only three choices of attack for every weapon - chop, slash, thrust - and for nearly every weapon one of these is clearly superior to the other two; there is little or no monster AI. The spell system makes combat a little more strategic than melee, but not a whole lot more interesting. In fact, I only really have fun using a missile weapon because there is some player skill involved in aiming long range shots or leading shots to hit moving targets.

If MW did not have an editor, the main flaw with it IMO would be how easy it is. The PC vs opponent combat balance seems to have been designed so that you can survive even if you choose a character without any combat skills. If you do choose a combat oriented character, such as someone who fights with a sword, shield and armor, then the combat becomes ridiculously easy after the first few character levels. It can be a bit harder for a mage, but only at the start of the game. Not only is combat easy, the game also makes it fairly easy to get cash and good items. It's not so much that uber items are easy to come by, they are not (unless you read up on where to find them), it's that you only need one such item to make combat ridiculously easy for the remainder of the game. You will obtain such items in the course of doing quests, and the quests themselves are usually very easy. What I particularly dislike is that most quests do not require any strategy or thought. Your journal is automatically filled with instructions so that you know exactly where to go and who to talk to. There are multiple ways to achieve most quest objectives, which is comendable, but you can achieve most of these objectives with either a weapon, a chameleon (invisibility) spell, a high speechcraft skill, or enough money to bribe someone to see your point of view. Although I am grateful for such freedom of choice, I would have preferred to have to think carefully about each quest rather than approaching every objective with the same tactics.

Luckily, MW does have and editor, and a good one at that. Most of the difficulty issues can be addressed by downloading a mod or creating a mod. One reason why I spent so many months playing MW is that I did a lot of tweaking to the game system to get the challenge level right. I was able to make combat harder, level-ups less frequent, uber items less uber and cash less freely available. I could not fix the quests without spoiling the surprises for myself, so that aspect still irks me. Really, without the use of the editor or downloaded mods, MW would be far less enjoyable.

After reading all my complaints you might forget that I think MW is one of the best games ever. I should really explain WHY I think that. I am one of those people who love exploring and finding out secrets in RPGs, more than I like fighting, accumulating wealth and even roleplaying; although I like all those aspects too. If nothing else, MW has a very immersive game world with plently of places to go and lots of hidden secrets. This is helped no end by the awesome graphics which, while not perfect by any means, really add to the atmosphere. I would have preferred to have worse graphics and better dialogue, but nothing is ever perfect. Luckily, I can overlook MW's shortcomings by engaging my imagination to fill in the blanks.

PS. Playing MW gave me the incentive to start playing Daggerfall again. DF has many of the same issues as MW, which is somewhat sad because it means that Bethesda did not really learn anything from DF to improve MW. I think DF is slightly better overall, IMO.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

One other reason as to why its also easy is the pat on the shoulder we get in the beginning stages. An Alchemy-based mage can get a complete Master set of apparatus in Caldera, for free, as they're behind an unlocked door in the Mage's guild. A fighter-type can become well equipped by just visiting local Imperial castles. Pelagiad and Caldera come to mind, as both have gear stored about without proper guards. There's weapons lying about, there's almost entire sets waiting to be picked up, keys for storehouses are just there calling out to you, etc. He also can sell the extra gear he doesn't need. And a Thief only needs to unlock everything he comes across, and use the sneaking ability which is quite unsatisfactory (would i be the only one who prefered a Thief-like style of sneaking, coupled with Soldier of Fortune's noise meter?).

Let's also remember the Creeper

Oh and welcome to the boards, Limorkil

 

[Psilon]

Hell, look at Ghostgate. You can filch almost an entire set of glass armor with only minimal difficulty. Getting the best light armor in the game that easily is just wrong.

 

[Jed]

Anyway, Ausir, ToEE is a dungeon crawler that focuses on combat role-playing offering tons of different options and character builds. Of course if someone always plays it with the vanilla setup: fighter, ranger, cleric, rogue, and wizard; it gets boring quickly, it shines when you use different combinations made with rp in mind, especially when you chose not to specialize in uber weapons you know of, but in something else, substituting ph4t loot with your skills and point-bought abilities.

Hey, VD: Just out of curiousity, what was the composition of yr ToEE party?

 

[Rainstorm]

Also, for those who hated it, what is the alternative? I'm always looking for good RPGs.

Since you think BG is a RPG,I'd think you might call Gothic/Gothic2 one too.... (they're imho action adventures) and those are quite nice games imho.(I do like Gothic more than #2 though,grittier atmosphere in #1...)

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Hell, look at Ghostgate. You can filch almost an entire set of glass armor with only minimal difficulty. Getting the best light armor in the game that easily is just wrong.

True, very true

 

[Anonymous]

Anyway, Ausir, ToEE is a dungeon crawler that focuses on combat role-playing offering tons of different options and character builds. Of course if someone always plays it with the vanilla setup: fighter, ranger, cleric, rogue, and wizard; it gets boring quickly, it shines when you use different combinations made with rp in mind, especially when you chose not to specialize in uber weapons you know of, but in something else, substituting ph4t loot with your skills and point-bought abilities.

Hey, VD: Just out of curiousity, what was the composition of yr ToEE party?

I'm not VD, but if you're wondering about an interesting party, try..

Dwarf Fighter
Half-Orc Monk
Halfling Paladin
Gnome Cleric (I used Strength and Healing domains of Pelor for him)
Gnome Bard (uses Heavy Crossbow (I think thats a bug, too) and just hangs back, gave him a few combat spells and good healing spells)
And then I had the theif-guy from The Inn of the Welcome Wench to about the 2nd floor of the temple, then used Wonnilion until the 4th (they died). Group is kinda tricky.

For pure on powergaming (I.E. do every single quest in Hommlet and Nulb, go for all advantages), you can do:
9 Fighter/1 Barbarian Dwarf (with either 20 Con/18 Str or 22 Con/atleast 17 STR)
9 Fighter/1 Barbarian Dwarf (with either 20 Con/18 Str or 22 Con/atleast 17 STR)
10 Human Cleric of Pelor (Sun and Healing domains, get all Turning feats and choose all the Healing spells as your Domain spells, you'll get a bunch of Greater Turning which empties rooms of undead in a cast or two)
10 Elven Ranger (set him up to be a bow-user, choose Goblinoids, Giants and *I forgot* for chosen enemy, put the chosen enemy points into Goblinoids)
10 Gnome Socerer (choose good offensive spells, make sure he has atleast 20 Con, he'll have about the same HP as Elmo)
Then I used Elmo as my NPC all the way up to the end. Make sure Elmo and the dwarves all have Greatswords.

Set the second party's alignment to Chaotic Good and have everyone be Chaotic Good (then you can use Thrommel's sword(s)). The first one has to be Lawful Good, which can be fun.

 

[Raymondo]

I used to be addictived to it too but then I added to many plug ins and it slowed the game down too much.

Kind of shitty really.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hey, VD: Just out of curiousity, what was the composition of yr ToEE party?

Which one? Here are the last two parties, no NPCs, point-buy system, masterwork items courtesy of Co8.

1. Adventuring company The Scum of the Earth: :D

Dwarven Rogue - tank
Halfling Rogue - flanking
Gnome Rogue/Bard
Halfling Rogue/Sorc
Dwarven Rogue/Cleric

2. This is my powergaming expansion-ready party
Half Orc Fighter/Barb
Human Fighter/Cleric
Elven Ranger
Halfling Fighter/Rogue
Human Wizard

 

[Jed]

Which one?

The one you meant when you said:

Of course if someone always plays it with the vanilla setup: fighter, ranger, cleric, rogue, and wizard; it gets boring quickly, it shines when you use different combinations made with rp in mind, especially when you chose not to specialize in uber weapons you know of, but in something else, substituting ph4t loot with your skills and point-bought abilities.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well, in that case, my rogues fit that description. I had a better (more interesting) party saved somewhere in case of a sequel, but the rogues will do. I will spare you the pain of listening to the backstory I came up with, but this party is weaker then most and they have to use different tactics then most parties in order to survive, some speciliaze in ranged attacks, some use finesse, some rely on str; sneaking and flanking are a must, as well as low level spells like bane/bless, cause fear, grease (rogue's high reflex save is very handy there), true strike, glitterdust (bonus to hit), etc. Multiclassed characters can't go higher then lvl 4 in non-rogue classes (because of the backstory and to keep'em away from fireballs). It's not much, but it's fun and different.

 

[Mad_Dog]

Back to Morrowind: I think of it as a (very) graphical version of ADOM, which I love. More a roll than role-playing game, with a lot of character building options and a huge world to explore. I am enjoying it a lot, and until about level 14 (level 16 now) combat with a short blade was very challenging for my asassin/thief character. Now it is getting easier with smugglers and lesser monsters but I found more dwemer ruins and a daedric temple, so I am looking forward to those. If you try to get a soul gem in each combat it makes it a little more challenging.

 

[Elwro]

Yes, but ADOM is better in every aspect excluding music & graphics. Advance a few levels and you'll still have a half of the world to see, and no one will be able to damage you.

 

[Anonymous]

Now i'm stuck on Daggerfall. DAMN YOU CONVINCING PEOPLE!

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Now i'm stuck on Daggerfall. DAMN YOU CONVINCING PEOPLE!

Hehe. Not necessarily a bad thing though.

 

[Hawkwing74]

Yes, but ADOM is better in every aspect excluding music & graphics. Advance a few levels and you'll still have a half of the world to see, and no one will be able to damage you.

I have definitely encountered this problem. Why didn't they plan past level 20?

 

[Elwro]

[I have definitely encountered this problem. Why didn't they plan past level 20?

Yeah, it's strange. If you look at the game files with the editor, you'll see that wandering mosters tables have only a few fields, and the 'hardest' monsters begin to generate when you're lvl 12 or 13. It's beyond my comprehension why weren't the lists extended a few times.

 

[Limorkil]

[I have definitely encountered this problem. Why didn't they plan past level 20?

Yeah, it's strange. If you look at the game files with the editor, you'll see that wandering mosters tables have only a few fields, and the 'hardest' monsters begin to generate when you're lvl 12 or 13. It's beyond my comprehension why weren't the lists extended a few times.

There are several things in Morrowind that strike me as odd, along the same lines:
- Each faction has two primary stats, such as strength and endurance for the Fighter's Guild, but you do not really need high values in these stats to advance through the ranks. In fact, any character can join any faction because the stat requirements start at 30 and the lowest stat you can start with is 30.
- Any character with some gold can offer bribes to raise anyone's disposition, which makes many quests really easy. Your chance of success is based on your Mercantile skill, but even with a skill of 5 (out of 100) you succeed most of the time.
- Anyone can pick up a full set of master quality alchemy equipment for free in Caldera, which makes the apprentice and journeyman quality totally redundant.
- With a few exceptions, your skills rise very very fast up until about 60. You can easily get through the first 6-10 levels or so because skills raise all the time and that causes you to level up. Most of the critters in the game are level 1 to 10, yet you can get to level 10 so quickly that these critters are little more than a nuisance.
- Unlock scrolls are found in crates all over the place, and when you get to level 15 or so you will find maximum level unlock scrolls all the time. This makes the Security skill and the Open spell pretty redundant.
- Speaking of security: You only need 50 security skill to pick every lock in the game and you can disarm 90% of all traps with only 5 security skill. Even if you are stupid enough to set off a trap, they hardly do any damage. Why even bother having traps?
- Unlike Daggerfall, you can join almost every faction in Morrowind and even opposing factions do not seem to care all that much. The only choice you have to make is which of the three Great Houses to join.
- Even if you don't join a faction, you can use almost all services that the faction offers. This means that there is no real reward for joining a faction except for the stronghold and any special items you get via faction quests.
- Combat is easy beyond level 5 for warriors and maybe level 10 for thieves and mages. The "boss" type fights you have are a joke. I was dreading meeting a Dagoth with my level 10 imperial but when I finally did he was a walkover. And it turned out he was the most powerful Dagoth except for Dagoth Ur.

IMO this all points to one thing: that the game was meant to be more challenging and more involved but some Bethesda suit decided that they would sell more copies if the game was more "accessable" (read: unchallenging).

Thank god for the editor. At least you can download player-made mods that fix most of the above issues.