Game News AoD Gameplay Video - Carrinas Assassination

[Vault Dweller]

VD, I still would like to hear about the stealth model you have in mind for a future game.

Not much to tell. We did a rough mock up based on the combat system and the existing stealth AI and it worked fairly well.

It's turn-based, like I said. During your turn you see NPCs, their awareness/detection areas (similar to how we show the attack/movement ranges in AoD) modified by light(for now the standard value for the room; it's easier to avoid detection in a dark cellar than in a brightly lit throne room)/objects you can hide behind, the NPC status (unaware, suspicious, investigating, actively searching, detected), and the detection meter.

In real-time systems you react instantly. Say, you start moving, some guard is close, the meter shows that your detection level is going up, so you fall back and wait for the guard to pass.

In turn-based systems the trick is always to survive your opponents' turn. Same here. You can't react instantly, so you need to prepare for the NPCs' turn. If you make too much noise, you can't just fall back and retreat quietly. The NPCs will start looking for the noise source during their turn and that, in my opinion, is the fun part. Your speed makes a huge difference during your turn. Etc.

 

[BlaineMono]

I can do one that too. Here: "Bro, no u, bro."

Not really, bro. You suck at bro shit, bro. Cause you are no bro, i guess.

"It has fightan in it so it's a fightan game for one! it has walkin'n'talkin so it has adventure for two! and so on" is not an argument. It's a fallacy.

Yeah, bro, sure, bro, you don't need no resources to make shit, bro. Good turn-based combat systems just grow on trees, you just have to find the right tree, bro. And dialogue grows on bushes. And stealth is a kind of moss. And RPG systems are like that dick that penetrated your skull four years ago and lives there still, gloating at us mortals through an empty eye socket, waiting for the right moment to blossom and consume consume CONSUME US ALL WITH ITS FIERY COCKBREATH OH GOD PLEASE MAKE IT STOP PLEASE GOD I WILL BE A GOOD BOY NO MORE PAIN

 

[denizsi]

1/10.

What's wrong, 8496?

 

[Claw]

This is why before Youtube went HD, I had to zoom into my gameplay videos like crazy.

AOD looks to have even smaller text so HD is actually a requirement here.

EDIT: Also, the visuals look much better in HD. I notice the awesome shadows.

I could read the text just fine in 480p.

What's wrong, are you all short-sighted and refuse to wear glasses?

Anyway, looks great. Sounds great, too.


PS: All this talk about turnbased stealth is turning me on. I need to go an assert my heterosexuality.

 

[shihonage]

deniszi, I made a post here explaining why your simplistic equations don't contain an ounce of truth.

In retrospect, this post was too large and detailed to blatantly stick out in a thread dedicated to another game altogether - so I deleted it.

After all, it was addressed to you, in an attempt to make you understand the chasm of difference in design complexity between components that are named the same, but belong in different game genres. I know you read it, so it served its purpose.

Now, I have to give credit where credit is due. Your trolling tactics had breathtaking audacity behind them. You were angry from the first post ("illiterate bullshit, man!"), and a couple posts later started personal attacks ("pull your shit together man! i crush your dreams! fuckity fuck fuck!").

I calmly pointed it out. This angered you even more, so you called me "defensive", and continued to escalate with every rambling, disjointed rant. I honestly have not seen this strong combination of stupidity and aggression since a hobo attacked me in a fast food joint.

If you don't like sticks landing on your head, consider not throwing them at others in the first place. It didn't end well for the hobo, either, but at least he didn't cry about it.

 

[denizsi]

VD, I still would like to hear about the stealth model you have in mind for a future game.

Not much to tell. We did a rough mock up based on the combat system and the existing stealth AI and it worked fairly well.

It's turn-based, like I said. During your turn you see NPCs, their awareness/detection areas (similar to how we show the attack/movement ranges in AoD) modified by light(for now the standard value for the room; it's easier to avoid detection in a dark cellar than in a brightly lit throne room)/objects you can hide behind, the NPC status (unaware, suspicious, investigating, actively searching, detected), and the detection meter.

In real-time systems you react instantly. Say, you start moving, some guard is close, the meter shows that your detection level is going up, so you fall back and wait for the guard to pass.

In turn-based systems the trick is always to survive your opponents' turn. Same here. You can't react instantly, so you need to prepare for the NPCs' turn. If you make too much noise, you can't just fall back and retreat quietly. The NPCs will start looking for the noise source during their turn and that, in my opinion, is the fun part. Your speed makes a huge difference during your turn. Etc.

Any visual or textual indicators for noise?

 

[Vault Dweller]

There is a detection meter which combines both noise (that you're making with every step (square)) and visibility (on the current square).

It should be fairly easy to implement pointing the cursor at any square to see its detection value (how much noise you'd generate getting there and how exposed you're going to be).

 

[Forest Dweller]

Sounds pretty cool.

 

[Lennie]

VD, I still would like to hear about the stealth model you have in mind for a future game.

Not much to tell. We did a rough mock up based on the combat system and the existing stealth AI and it worked fairly well.

It's turn-based, like I said. During your turn you see NPCs, their awareness/detection areas (similar to how we show the attack/movement ranges in AoD) modified by light(for now the standard value for the room; it's easier to avoid detection in a dark cellar than in a brightly lit throne room)/objects you can hide behind, the NPC status (unaware, suspicious, investigating, actively searching, detected), and the detection meter.

In real-time systems you react instantly. Say, you start moving, some guard is close, the meter shows that your detection level is going up, so you fall back and wait for the guard to pass.

In turn-based systems the trick is always to survive your opponents' turn. Same here. You can't react instantly, so you need to prepare for the NPCs' turn. If you make too much noise, you can't just fall back and retreat quietly. The NPCs will start looking for the noise source during their turn and that, in my opinion, is the fun part. Your speed makes a huge difference during your turn. Etc.

Sounds nice. It's a shame it won't be in AoD.

Still planning on releasing a demo of the first town sometime soon?

 

[Elhoim]

Still planning on releasing a demo of the first town sometime soon?

Yep, we will release it.

 

[denizsi]

There is a detection meter which combines both noise (that you're making with every step (square)) and visibility (on the current square).

It should be fairly easy to implement pointing the cursor at any square to see its detection value (how much noise you'd generate getting there and how exposed you're going to be).

How about the noise the NPCs make? In JA1/2 for instance, you get text messages ("X hears a faint/definite/etc. sound from NW) along with a visual cue approximately on where the sound originated if your merc is close enough.

JA2 also has this lovely function that shows cover/visibility conditions of all the grids in your view with colour-coding, on top of the option to check individual grids separately so you can immediately have complete awareness of your entire environment and also check for precise data for any given grid. Something similar/identical maybe?

Examples:
This screenshot shows the selected merc's visibility (narrow field of vision due to aiming down the optics of the rifle). This one shows cover/visibility conditions against one enemy spotted by the selected merc. It's updated according to all enemies spotted by the selected merc.

And the developer of Timelapse Vertigo also has it nice, somewhat reminiscent of console games like MGS.

derp

LOL

I read the original post last night but needed to sleep. I came back to reply and now this :sigh:

Yes, I know all about that you explained which wasn't necessary (but nonetheless correct). I responded to one fallacy that supported its owner's point with one of my own that supported mine to make a point. Both have glimpses of truth in them but neither can be taken as a valid argument. I'd expect a mature person to acknowledge that instead of looking for an ulterior motive because I also happened to say that both were fallacies in the first place. Unlike the other poster, however, I have already provided a few actual arguments to support my point instead of just repeating the point itself enough times and hoping it becomes true. You can go back and read them again; I don't edit my posts post-mortem, after all.

All said and done, I also am not the one who edited his entire post and opted to take out an actual argument in favor of more accusations and with what reason? "too large and detailed in a thread about about something else". Ok, if you say so but then again, why replace it with all the unnecessary fluff at all? Is that suddenly more relevant to the subject of the thread somehow? Your priorities are interesting to say the least. Personally, I'd rather debate instead of make stuff personal.

Prior to that, you didn't provide a single explanation but, like that other poster, only kept repeating a nondescript point along with a good deal many incriminations until your last post which was your first straight and honest answer without ego-tripping and which for whatever reason you replaced with yet even more of it. And you think I am the one who's angry. Well, I don't know about you but if either of us has to be angry, I think it's pretty obvious that it's not me since I'm not the one resorting to incriminations in every other sentence and editing his post.

 

[shihonage]

Wait, this wasn't your swan song? A second one, to boot?

deniszi, you continue to make me smile. I never intended for this to be a trolling competition, but you've been dragging this into the mud from the start, which makes your attempts at the high ground even funnier.

You accuse me of insults while insulting me, and accuse me of edits (edits are now a crime?), while your own post on this page was edited 3 times. And you just edited the post directly above, as well.

deniszi. deniszi never changes.

/Ron Perlman

Maybe some gullible soul will read your late posts and trip up on the number of times you said "fallacy" (fo sho he said "fallacy" 20 times, so he must be right, uh-yuck!), but people here are generally pretty sharp and have an ability to form their own opinions.

I'll repeat this for the last time.

There are no examples that support your claims.

There's no Fallout-type RPG which has the intricate depth you demand from combat and stealth systems. The reason one hasn't been made, ever, is because it would take significantly more resources than expected from a single game.

You actually admitted this in an earlier post (1.5x the effort, remember?), so I am baffled by your continued, unending demagogy.

I removed my post for obvious reasons - it went into great detail about _my_ games in a thread dedicated to _another_. I certainly didn't remove it for whatever criminal reasons your paranoid imagination had conjured.

I certainly hoped that when it sunk in, you may actually rethink your position. Y'know, the one where dialogue in Monkey Island is as complex as dialogue in Fallout. It is just not possible for a rational, decent individual to maintain such an ignorant, simplistic viewpoint when presented with so much food for thought.

But, you've revealed yourself to have absolutely no shame. Your only goal here has been to waste my time, and you've succeeded admirably. You also managed to finally piss me off, you brickheaded neanderthal.

Fightan game + Adventure game + Stealth game = 7 + 8 + 7 = 22 "game stuff". Wow, 22? That sure looks like a lot to me. Maybe you have a point after all. Let's see how it works out for an RPG, though, shall we?

Build story. Build fightan system. Build dialogue system. Build stealth system. Build mini-games and the like (to substitute for the puzzles in an adventure game). Build game world. Items & character models. Textures. Sound. Music. 10 "game stuff". B-b-but how can this be? When you add the others together it's 22 and when you put them together, you got 10? Wow, man, this has gotta be magic!

Jesus fucking Christ. Why did I look at that again. I am done here. When you're in the middle of making the RPG of your dreams, feel free to send me a PM. You'll be feeling very different then.

 

[denizsi]

Sure, repeat a few points I've already admitted as if it's new and roll back to incriminations. Will you ever stop? You have nothing new to say. Anything new you can add I have already implied or mentioned myself, like in your last post:

Oh so you think you are raising some points about dialogue (and previously about inventory before you edited it out)? Bzzzt, sorry, I never said anything to the contrary and in fact I've myself already eliminated the very same point you are arguing against, by presenting it as an invalid argument in response to another poster's invalid argument. Tragic thing is, I'm repeating myself here:

Yes, I know all about that you explained which wasn't necessary (but nonetheless correct). I responded to one fallacy that supported its owner's point with one of my own that supported mine to make a point. Both have glimpses of truth in them but neither can be taken as a valid argument. I'd expect a mature person to acknowledge that instead of looking for an ulterior motive because I also happened to say that both were fallacies in the first place. Unlike the other poster, however, I have already provided a few actual arguments to support my point instead of just repeating the point itself enough times and hoping it becomes true. You can go back and read them again; I don't edit my posts post-mortem, after all.

See, I'm not even fighting some point you'd like to think you are making; you are fighting yourself like a dog chasing its tail because what you are trying to prove, I have already admitted to.

So I'll repeat myself once more: stop looking for ulterior motives and try to improve your reading comprehension. You and this whole deal are a terrible case of miscommunication.

And finally, let's just follow your own advice and not hijack the thread, shall we? After all, you even edited your previous post completely, replacing the entire content of your post (I myself only edit for typos and other similar errors or additions/notes; never complete wipe-out. I have the backbone to stand behind my posts without replacing my arguments) just to avoid that (or so you say) so what's with the change of heart now? Let it go, man. There are plenty of threads to go around doing that.

 

[Claw]

You both lose at the internet.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Everyone does.

 

[Superalt]

Aren't you taking it out of context?

Bro, I don't. It's still four games worth of work and four different skillsets required, bro.

I can do one that too. Here: "Bro, no u, bro."

"It has fightan in it so it's a fightan game for one! it has walkin'n'talkin so it has adventure for two! and so on" is not an argument. It's a fallacy. If you have to turn it into a illogical game of maths by the mere amount of genre elements, let's see how it turns out:

Fighting game: Build fighting system. Build story. Build game world. Items & character models. Textures. Sound. Music (that makes 7 "game stuff")

Adventure game: Build puzzle systems. Build dialogue system. Build story. Build game world. Items & character models. Textures. Sound. Music (8 "game stuff")

Stealth game: Build stealth system. Build story. Build game world. Items & character models. Textures. Sound. Music (7 "game stuff")

Fightan game + Adventure game + Stealth game = 7 + 8 + 7 = 22 "game stuff". Wow, 22? That sure looks like a lot to me. Maybe you have a point after all. Let's see how it works out for an RPG, though, shall we?

Build story. Build fightan system. Build dialogue system. Build stealth system. Build mini-games and the like (to substitute for the puzzles in an adventure game). Build game world. Items & character models. Textures. Sound. Music. 10 "game stuff". B-b-but how can this be? When you add the others together it's 22 and when you put them together, you got 10? Wow, man, this has gotta be magic!

I agree with you the guy you are arguing with is pretty retarded. There's no reason to have shitty and dumbed down retard game mechanics in any game, but there is another issues you don't take into account: competence. Unless you are some guy who really knows about tactical games and rpgs you just can't make a decent combat system, as AoD proves (enter a million retard fanbois to defend that pathetic game system and childish user interface).

Likewise with a stealth system. I have never played a stealth game system in an RPG that was not utter crap. The only decent ones as far as Iam concerned are submarine games. Games which treat the subject with extreme care.

Doing otherwise I think a stealth system will always be crap. Like alpha popamole and [fill in game name here that people constantly complain about].

Unfortunately just because someone is making a game and manages to complete it doesn't mean they will make a GOOD game. A guy who might be good at a couple things is not going to be good at everything, either. Reality proves to me most would be game makers aren't good at anything at all, or at most just one thing, and most will never release any kind of game at all.

So yes I agree with you in theory and for games with big budget there's no excuse to be so shitty, but for small studio it's seriously unlikely anyone can do what you want and have good combat and character system, good stealth system, and good dialog.

 

[Leimrey]

The combat system looks pretty good, except for one tiny little thing: ranged weapon wielding characters should fucking die a horrible, horrible death once a properly armed for melee combat enemy gets anywhere in the 5 feet radius near them. Seriously, the fact that a guy with a crossbow is able to beat an enemy, who chases him with a melee weapon around a good portion of the map, by doing some Benny Hill style legwork looks kinda retarded. Also, does AoD have some sort of grappling system (like that Knights Of The Chalice game) to prevent such bullshit?

 

[Leimrey]

Likewise with a stealth system. I have never played a stealth game system in an RPG that was not utter crap. The only decent ones as far as Iam concerned are submarine games.

He hasn't played the Thief games.
>laughinggarret.jpg

 

[Serious_Business]

I just want to make sure everyone is not reading this crap and ctrl+f "Vault Dweller" at this point (thanks tono avatar, raaaaaaggggeeeeeaaaannnn)