AOD Release Date and the nature of Indie Projects

[Melcar]

Honestly, if the game had kept the 2D engine and had been released already (what is it now? 1, 2 years ago?) VD would have already had an innovative indie RPG under his belt, and who knows, by now he may have been working on another RPG with modern 3D graphics.

He wouldn't. Vince said many times that the level of success AoD achieves will influence if he'll be inclined to continue making games - and having a hardcore flop under one's belt isn't exactly a source of positive motivation.

Who said it was going to be a failure? A well polished 2D game, an indie game, can go far. After that, VD and his team would have had some street cred. and experience, and be better prepared to undertake bigger, more ambitious projects.
Face it, these guys have mouths bigger than their stomachs. They got too ambitious.

 

[Silellak]

Honestly, if the game had kept the 2D engine and had been released already (what is it now? 1, 2 years ago?) VD would have already had an innovative indie RPG under his belt, and who knows, by now he may have been working on another RPG with modern 3D graphics.

He wouldn't. Vince said many times that the level of success AoD achieves will influence if he'll be inclined to continue making games - and having a hardcore flop under one's belt isn't exactly a source of positive motivation.

Who said it was going to be a failure? A well polished 2D game, an indie game, can go far. After that, VD and his team would have had some street cred. and experience, and be better prepared to undertake bigger, more ambitious projects.
Face it, these guys have mouths bigger than their stomachs. They got too ambitious.

The hypocrisy of you accusing someone else of having a big mouth is too delicious to ignore. Mmm. Tasty.

 

[Kingston]

They really improved the text since then, thank the Lord. "You enter the tavern. You can't help but notice that most patrons are armed and look like the sort that has outstanding debts to society town guards wouldn't mind collecting." Probably filler text, but still, bloody hell - that's one fucked up sentence.

 

[Melcar]

Honestly, if the game had kept the 2D engine and had been released already (what is it now? 1, 2 years ago?) VD would have already had an innovative indie RPG under his belt, and who knows, by now he may have been working on another RPG with modern 3D graphics.

He wouldn't. Vince said many times that the level of success AoD achieves will influence if he'll be inclined to continue making games - and having a hardcore flop under one's belt isn't exactly a source of positive motivation.

Who said it was going to be a failure? A well polished 2D game, an indie game, can go far. After that, VD and his team would have had some street cred. and experience, and be better prepared to undertake bigger, more ambitious projects.
Face it, these guys have mouths bigger than their stomachs. They got too ambitious.

The hypocrisy of you accusing someone else of having a big mouth is too delicious to ignore. Mmm. Tasty.

I forget that Spanish figures of speech don't really translate to the barbaric English tongue. Or maybe you're just too unimaginative.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Have the animations been spruced up any since the combat videos? They were pretty weak.

No. Better critical animations were added, but the basic animations will have to be redone (after the demo).

The man just wants to release a game that fits as closely as possible what he has in his mind. It will never be as good as he wants it to be, but he can get a close match. He'll keep on making major improvements until there aren't any left.

There won't be another engine change for this reason: It wouldn't be worth the trouble, as he is already pleased with the current look of the game. It's not perfect, but it's good enough. It's all about compromises. 2D -> 3D was worth it because it brings in a lot more customers. To get the same exponential increase with a graphical update from now would require a lot more work than the conversion from 2D to 3D took. The target audience doesn't care about graphics that much anyway. The 2D looked ugly, but the 3D is more than passable for the majority of his audience. Even if the game had superb AAA graphics the game might not sell to the masses because it's isometric and turn-based or whatever.

It'd be stupid to spend 5 years making a game and then releasing something you're not pleased with because you couldn't work on it that one year longer. He's making the game for himself, not for us.

Pretty much. After explaining obvious things for 2 days, this post is a breath of fresh air.

Who said it was going to be a failure? A well polished 2D game, an indie game, can go far.

Because you said so?

After that, VD and his team would have had some street cred. and experience, and be better prepared to undertake bigger, more ambitious projects. Face it, these guys have mouths bigger than their stomachs. They got too ambitious.

:facepalm:

 

[OSK]

I forget that Spanish figures of speech don't really translate to the barbaric English tongue. Or maybe you're just too unimaginative.

It's "eyes" instead of "mouth" in English.

 

[Elhoim]

Here we say "Cagar más grande que el culo" (Shit bigger than the ass).

 

[Melcar]

I forget that Spanish figures of speech don't really translate to the barbaric English tongue. Or maybe you're just too unimaginative.

It's "eyes" instead of "mouth" in English.

Oh yeah. Comes con tus ojos sort of thing.

 

[Kos_Koa]

I thought everyone knew AoD was the spiritual sequel to Quest 64?

Who said it was going to be a failure? A well polished 2D game, an indie game, can go far. After that, VD and his team would have had some street cred. and experience, and be better prepared to undertake bigger, more ambitious projects.
Face it, these guys have mouths bigger than their stomachs. They got too ambitious.

There is a flaw in your reasoning unless you are just being sarcastic. If AoD was released as a 2d game years ago it wouldn't have been a "well polished 2d game", it would have probably been an average 2d game at best. Just look at Icewind Dale, really solid 2d graphics with a development team composed with upwards to 10 or more artists, and not just average artist but some of the better artist in the field. An indie game can't compete with that, especially a team composed of one designer/writer, programmer, and artist. Face it, it's much easier to make a decent looking 3d game than it is to make a decent looking 2d game.

If a good portrait artist shows up tomorrow, I'll take extra time to do 30-40 portraits and ask Oscar to change the interface to fit them in. Why? Because I didn't find a good artist before and I think that good portraits will improve the game.

In order to further delay AoD and to keep the codex in a perpetual state of chaos, if character portraits are on your list, I'm sure I can be of service.

 

[bhlaab]

What did the 2d graphics look like?

The funny thing is that several textures from that picture are still being used in the game

Eesh, that doesn't look too hot. Good thing he changed it, the 3d art is much better and seems to suit a darker atmosphere. Well, okay, if you throw some shadows onto that screenshot it would look much better (kind of like how the 3d version looked awful until lightmaps came into the picture)

VD, you thinking of putting this on Steam? If you do I think you're guaranteed way more than 5,000 sales!

 

[Joe Krow]

Those graphics look a lot better then Spiderweb's games and I think they sell well enough don't they? The only reason I can think of to upgrade the graphics is to appeal to those outside the "hardcore rpg" market. Seems like a mistake to me. One that Spiderweb avoided and probably the reason they are still in business.

 

[Melcar]

Those graphics look a lot better then Spiderweb's games and I think they sell well enough don't they? The only reason I can think of to upgrade the graphics is to appeal to those outside the "hardcore rpg" market. Seems like a mistake to me. One that Spiderweb avoided and probably the reason they are still in business.

Oh noes. VD sold out. So, when the demo coming out?

 

[bhlaab]

Those graphics look a lot better then Spiderweb's games and I think they sell well enough don't they? The only reason I can think of to upgrade the graphics is to appeal to those outside the "hardcore rpg" market. Seems like a mistake to me. One that Spiderweb avoided and probably the reason they are still in business.

So many of these indie rpgs just ignore presentation and aesthetics. Sorry, I just can't get into a game if the world looks flat and unappealing, the characters are hideous, and the text is all in Fixedsys. I'm not saying these low budget games need to look like Crysis, but it just looks like they didn't care enough to bother. And if they don't care, I don't care.

And geez, what an asshole, this guy actually cares that his game doesn't look good enough and took the extra time to improve it. Boooooo.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Those graphics look a lot better then Spiderweb's games and I think they sell well enough don't they? The only reason I can think of to upgrade the graphics is to appeal to those outside the "hardcore rpg" market. Seems like a mistake to me. One that Spiderweb avoided and probably the reason they are still in business.

Geneforge 4 sold 3,979 copies. That's considering the Mac market, the existing fanbase, established setting, etc.

 

[Knightrider]

You are such a bitch VD. Did you really found excuses to keep yourself from replying to me?you are such a weasel.

I will admit I envy your weasel qualities in a way. A lot of people criticized me for not learning to model and program and said that was the reason American Hare didn't get off the ground. We are the same, you and I: game designers. With the difference that I'm a much better writer, and that my idea was original and not some rehashed and tasteless "roman setting stuffed into Fallout's cornhole".

And the biggest difference of all, off course: you are a corporate weasel. And you've managed to find 4 idiots to slave away for you without payment and make your game for you.

So yeah, I'm angry and jealous because you are such a weasel. Understand this people: in a way VD is not responsible for all the failures and delays because he actually doesn't work in the game. He just roleplays game designer and hypes his project across the interwebz. He was successful in the hype, but he failed in the design. As you can see by all the LP's, interviews and other hype-a-lot antics, AOD is as tasteless and shitty as cucumber flavored ice cream. If he was actually working on the game he wouldn't post so goddamn much. And he really wouldn't bother with all this bashing. Real game developers don't do this kind of thing.

VD thought it would be a great weasel deal to make a codex wishlist, create a boring and unoriginal setting and mix it all together in a shitty and ugly Fallout clone. Let's see if he was right.

And this is not trolling. I'm a mexican living in Brazil. I'm incapable of making jokes if they don't relate to vicious black supremacists and interwebz dwelling eunuchs.

 

[MLMarkland]

:kimjongil:

 

[Chefe]

I would like to point out that I am looking forward to AoD. I love the way it looks and have enjoyed everything I've read about it. Knightrider is not my alt. I don't know why someone would go to all the trouble pretending to be my alt when I'm obviously one of the worst posters this forum has ever seen, an emotional wreck, and am not very knowledgeable on role playing games.

 

[cardtrick]

This thread is depressing as hell.

 

[Knightrider]

Quit toying with my old account DU. This is not funny. I thought you hated VD anyway? why cover up for him?

 

[Chefe]

Okay, Chefe, how did American Hare end up in Retardo Land? I want a step by step account.

 

[Knightrider]

Son of a bitch. You changed my password and all login information? What the hell is this shit? who is the AOD fanboy sabotaging my accounts?

I guess this is why people call you "DorkOvenLoad". First you and Trash sabotaged my black supremacist trolling spree and now you do this. You are going too far.

Seriously people, ignore this asshole that hijacked my old account. And pay attention to my glorious bashing of AOD. I'm going to let it ALL hang out and redeem what American Hare could have been. Really. Trust me.

 

[Chefe]

It's still the same. I just logged into this account using it.

Now, don't dodge my question, Chefe. How did American Hare end up in Retardo Land? It was such a popular topic.

 

[betamin]

God damn, so much whining... these guys don't have an obligation to release the game in x time, just let them do what they like, play the demo when it comes out and then decide whether to buy it or not, does your life depends on aod?

Oh and those people critizising their work ethic are either retarded or 15 years old, these people do not live with what they program.

 

[Knightrider]

That's really funny DU. I guess you win again. You kept me from being a cape verdean black cop and now you deprive me of my original account.

I give up. Unless someone makes me a moderator I can't compete with this anti-trolling douchebag.

 

[Wyrmlord]

I will admit I envy your weasel qualities in a way. A lot of people criticized me for not learning to model and program and said that was the reason American Hare didn't get off the ground. We are the same, you and I: game designers. With the difference that I'm a much better writer, and that my idea was original and not some rehashed and tasteless "roman setting stuffed into Fallout's cornhole".

LMAO

Look, if this is true, I have something to say.

In the entire history of gaming, there has never ever been a playable game made by a man whose sole specialty is in coming up with ideas. In the old days of gaming, there was never ever a dichotomy as ridiculous as having a game designer and then seperately a programmer. It was a programmer who was working on a game.

And they actually made good stuff. It was not the crap that you see related to all this mania of games which are just 5 hour long cinematics with quick-time events. Sorry, a programmer is actually suitable for making a game because he has any idea what he is doing and what he is working with.

I am sure all these wonderful armchair sages, who sit there stroking their long beards, saying, "My job here...is to conceive!" are capable of wonderful videogame rhetoric, but the problem is that RHETORIC ON VIDEOGAMES MEANS SHIT. You can preach all the semantics you want about game design, but once you start thinking of it in terms of semantics, you forget the basic technical things that are necessary for the game to be enjoyable, and forget that what works and what doesn't work is solely based on whether it is fun.

And that's why games like Might & Magic, Wizardry, Gold Box,.etc are actually fun. They were built by people who just focused on the mechanics, the numbers, and all the endless monsters to kill in big dungeons, and see the kind of mess combat has been in every game since 1997. And to top it off, the terrible combat, which forms 90% of those post-1997 games anyway, is excused under the rhetoric that combat does not matter.

Gods, it's one thing to have division of labour, it's another to hand over tasks that go knee-to-limb which can be done by one person anyway.