Preview ArcaniA: An Oblivion Tale

[Serus]

If it requires dexterity from the player it shouldn't be called 'rpg'anyway - its an action game with rpg elements.

 

[bhlaab]

If it requires dexterity from the player it shouldn't be called 'rpg'anyway - its an action game with rpg elements.

No, it's actually a SUPER rpg because not only are you levelling up your skills, you're also levelling up your "Grappling with inane design decisionsand programming inadequacies that grate on the nerves" skill IRL!

Level it up enough and you'll gain resistance to chewing on tinfoil.

 

[nomask7]

If it requires dexterity from the player it shouldn't be called 'rpg'anyway - its an action game with rpg elements.

I'm not very interested in the semantics of market categories, or in the categories themselves, but Gothic doesn't require "dexterity", it requires some patience or the right kind of attitude. It's not for insta-gratification kids who are deeply distressed by anything that requires them to think about what they're doing for a moment & learn something new. A new player to G2: NotR who has never played Gothic before would undoubtedly feel that the combat is difficult—I did—possibly blaming the supposedly clumsy controls. The feel of the controls actually changes gradually throughout the game as the to-hit-% of the player character improves. I enjoyed the difficulty and occasional clumsiness in the beginning, since the player character wasn't supposed to be a great fighter right from the get go either. But when I started my second playthrough, I noticed that the low-level battles weren't really as difficult as I had thought.

As you would expect if you practised real sword fighting, the process of learning is slow, subtle, gradual & mostly unconscious after you've learned the basics of what buttons(!) to push & when. The combat isn't something you can suddenly do perfectly. It's kinda like Mount & Blade, except that I think the controls & the whole fighting scheme in G2: NotR is actually more interesting & original than in M&B. The early Gothics are strange masterpieces that should be taken on their own terms. You need at least a tiny bit of humility to do that, or an open mind if nothing else. It's not for idiots imprisoned by cliche patterns of thought & behaviour.

 

[Lexx]

I want to see ArcaniA released buggy as shit just to see new fail tails. What I've read about it yet sounds even more bad than the stuff PB already added in Gothic 3.

Heh, at the moment, the bets are good Risen to become a good rpg and ArcaniA to become a shit rpg.

 

[someone else]

So when are we going to get quest waypoints complete with targetbox and distance like OFP? Hmm?

Topography fail!

 

[Wyrmlord]

In The Name Of The King: A Dungeon Siege Tale

ArkaniA: A Gothic Tale

This game sounds like a Uwe Boll production.

 

[Kraszu]

What nomask7 had said is very true. Original way of control in Gothic offer new gameplay experience, to bad that most people now cry that the game don't play exactly like the previous game that they were used to, and they can't even try something new. It makes you wonder on how many people tried to play using mouse + wasd becouse of they lack of imagination to see that those controls would not work good in Gothic.

Controls of Gothic are not even complex, there is very few buttons, it is all about timing, positioning yourself good. There are no combos other then timing based ones. It is very easy to get to system as long as you are able to learn something new.

 

[Talby]

Nope, disliking Gothic's crap control scheme doesn't automatically make one a insta-gratification console kiddie who refuses to try new things. The controls are just poorly thought-out and clunky.

It's not difficult to get used to them, but they're inferior when compared to the control schemes of similar games. The problem is not that they're different, it's that they're bad.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The problem is not that they're different, it's that they're bad.

No.

 

[nomask7]

Nope, disliking Gothic's crap control scheme doesn't automatically make one a insta-gratification console kiddie who refuses to try new things. The controls are just poorly thought-out and clunky.

It's not difficult to get used to them, but they're inferior when compared to the control schemes of similar games. The problem is not that they're different, it's that they're bad.

Let's see.

1) I don't think they're poorly thought-out; rather, I think that the controls and the whole essential game play, i.e. combat & travel scheme, are better & more interesting than in Two Worlds, Gothic 3 (community enhanced or otherwise), The Witcher, Mount and Blade, Oblivion, Morrowind, Daggerfall, Arena, Ultima Underworld...

2) Take a visit to any Gothic forums. You'll see that many people agree with me.

3) The developers themselves don't think it's poorly thought-out. You can find proof of that in the G2 & G2: NotR ini files:

... if you set this one to 0 you will have another fight interface (one key to attack).
; we feel the gothic 1 interface is more challenging, so we set the old controls to default
; with the new interface

They set the old, supposedly clumsier control scheme to default even though it would likely alienate many people new to Gothic (since most people are dumb & rape-ruled by their cliche viewpoints). But you must be right. Everyone else must be wrong. It must be poorly thought out, because you're too damned dumb to appreciate it.

 

[Kraszu]

Ok so how exactly they are clunky or bad through out? Inventory you want to see what you have, or select something. Both those things Gothic do fine job at, scrolling is fast, you have items split in couple categories. You have description about item/potion/whatever.
In G2 it is worse becouse there are no categories still it takes couple more seconds to select item not a big deal.

Bad through out - there is left-right swing abuse that should be fixed, still it only works later in game, and not against everybody or pack of enemies.

Overall the combat is good, you have to time your attack, against some enemies dodging they first attack is best. You can't run around when you attack (except for one swing deigned for it that can be used only when you charge from front not strife). You can't just spam attack becouse you have to get your composure back, when fighting with multiple opponent you can't get yourself surrounded forcing you to constantly changing your position.

When I had played he game G2 last time I had check the claims about clumsiness of controls, and they are nonsense. As soon as give command then right animation is played, that is like crying that PoP have clumsy jumps.

 

[nomask7]

Bad through out - there is left-right swing abuse that should be fixed, still it only works later in game, and not against everybody or pack of enemies.

It doesn't work with all types of weapon either; it probably works only with some types of two-handed weapon, or maybe with weapons that are fast enough. I faintly remember using it against a couple of orcs that I kept from attacking me in unison by standing close to a sort of doorway (in the ruins around the castle). It was still intense though. You still have to be able to time your button-pushes, which means you have to manage to stay calm. I ended up having to run away.

 

[Kraszu]

Bad through out - there is left-right swing abuse that should be fixed, still it only works later in game, and not against everybody or pack of enemies.

It doesn't work with all types of weapon either.

Yes that is what I meant by later in game.

 

[JarlFrank]

Gothic 2 had awesome controls, fuck all the pussies who complain. In the beginning it took me quite some time to get used to, and combat was fucking HARD and unforgiving, but after a while the controls just feel natural. You don't even miss the mouse. The control scheme is actually very well thought-out since it requires not many keys, is simple to use when you've gotten used to it and there are no problems whatsoever. Yes, the combat might be "twitchy" since you have to time your attacks and blocks perfectly, but the controls never were a problem for me. And I was 14 or 15 or something when I first played the game. The problem isn't that the controls are shit, the problem is that the fights are so incredibly unforgiving. And it's supposed to be like that. It makes the game feel special and different. In most RPGs, you don't feel a certain fear when exploring the countryside or a dungeon because you know that you will get out alive, even if you don't pay close attention to the environment. In Gothic 2, you are afraid. Very afraid. One moment of carelessness and you're dead. Even at higher levels, if you just stand there and let a low-level enemy attack you, you're dead meat after a short time. That's what I love about the game. The world stays dangerous throughout the game, except maybe the very end when you have the very best armor and weapon. But generally, you'll be in constant danger.

And there's nothing wrong with the controls. They're fine as they are.

 

[Jim Cojones]

Original way of control in Gothic offer new gameplay experience, to bad that most people now cry that the game don't play exactly like the previous game that they were used to, and they can't even try something new. It makes you wonder on how many people tried to play using mouse + wasd because of they lack of imagination to see that those controls would not work good in Gothic.

WSAD + mouse do work well in G1&2. I've beaten both games in this way and never had any problems with such configuration. And I'm far from being extremely dexterous.

 

[nomask7]

In most RPGs, you don't feel a certain fear when exploring the countryside or a dungeon because you know that you will get out alive, even if you don't pay close attention to the environment.

This observation has so profound potential consequences for the future of adventure RPGs that it should be stickied and locked as a front-page one-post thread with gigantic type & spammed all over the Internet.

 

[JarlFrank]

In most RPGs, you don't feel a certain fear when exploring the countryside or a dungeon because you know that you will get out alive, even if you don't pay close attention to the environment.

This observation has so profound potential consequences for the future of adventure RPGs that it should be stickied and locked as a front-page one-post thread with gigantic type & spammed all over the Internet.

It's too bad we're in an era of dumbing down right now. With more complex combat systems we could get this feeling of being in constant danger more often.
Heck, even with simple combat systems.
The Gothic games were a very special experience because of that. Very unique, and very awesome. This feeling that, even if you're a strong paladin with steel armor, you can always get fucked when exploring remote areas of the wilderness and as a low-level character even when simply not sticking to the road was amazing. A very refreshing experience compared to the usual "YOU ARE THE POWERFUL GODLIKE HERO" that we have in most RPGs. You are the hero, yes, but you're vulnerable and when you have to fight groups of enemies, you're in deep trouble.

 

[Talby]

Let's see.

1) I don't think they're poorly thought-out; rather, I think that the controls and the whole essential game play, i.e. combat & travel scheme, are better & more interesting than in Two Worlds, Gothic 3 (community enhanced or otherwise), The Witcher, Mount and Blade, Oblivion, Morrowind, Daggerfall, Arena, Ultima Underworld...

More power to you, then. I think they're rather bad.

2) Take a visit to any Gothic forums. You'll see that many people agree with me.

Argumentum ad Populum. Lots of people like Oblivion, but that won't change my opinion that it's a crappy game.

3) The developers themselves don't think it's poorly thought-out. You can find proof of that in the G2 & G2: NotR ini files:

... if you set this one to 0 you will have another fight interface (one key to attack).
; we feel the gothic 1 interface is more challenging, so we set the old controls to default
; with the new interface

The developers don't think their game sucks. Surprise surprise!

They set the old, supposedly clumsier control scheme to default even though it would likely alienate many people new to Gothic (since most people are dumb & rape-ruled by their cliche viewpoints). But you must be right. Everyone else must be wrong. It must be poorly thought out, because you're too damned dumb to appreciate it.

Once again, disliking the control scheme doesn't make one dumb. It doesn't mean I'm in favour of dumbing-down. It doesn't mean I run screaming from any kind of difficulty. It doesn't mean I'm unwilling to try new things. You're the one frothing at the mouth saying, "OMEGS IF YOY DONT LIKE GOTHIKS CONTROELS U R RETARDED."

In my opinion, Gothic's controls are kinda crap. Don't read anything into this other than they're not exactly my cup of tea. Get it?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Look, if you like this game then buy it, if you don't then there's nothing forcing you to. Risen will be the spiritual successor to the Gothic series, and you can always go back and play the original three games if you need your Gothic fix.

 

[nomask7]

@JarlFrank

It would help a lot if avoiding or running away from enemies weren't so damned easy in other "similar" games.

blah blah, get it?

Funny. I recall how you wrote that Gothic controls sucked and how the developers were probably idiots because they couldn't come up with a more conventional control interface. Or maybe you only implied it. Anyway, here's a thought: when some group of people make & publish a strange game, it's probably because they're creative as well as courageous enough to take risks, and so if you like the game, good, & make some noise about the fact so other game developers & publishers might learn to take risks as well and use whatever little creativity they might have left locked inside their corporate-raped souls; if you don't like the game, why not shut the fuck up? It should be obvious you're shooting yourself in the foot, when you complain that someone has the guts to make games that are somewhat different from the generic shite they're drowning in, unless generic shite is all you like. In either case, it would appear that you're a fucking moron. Savvy?

 

[fizzelopeguss]

I want to see ArcaniA released buggy as shit

I wan't it to be a good game....you know, so we'd have something else to play.

Gothic 2 had awesome controls, fuck all the pussies who complain.

Yep, the controls were spot on, far more precise than the gothic 3 abortion.

 

[Talby]

Funny. I recall how you wrote that Gothic controls sucked and how the developers were probably idiots because they couldn't come up with a more conventional control interface. Or maybe you only implied it. Anyway, here's a thought: when some group of people make & publish a strange game, it's probably because they're creative as well as courageous enough to take risks, and so if you like the game, good, & make some noise about the fact so other game developers & publishers might learn to take risks as well and use whatever little creativity they might have left locked inside their corporate-raped souls; if you don't like the game, why not shut the fuck up? It should be obvious you're shooting yourself in the foot, when you complain that someone has the guts to make games that are somewhat different from the generic shite they're drowning in, unless generic shite is all you like. In either case, it would appear that you're a fucking moron. Savvy?

Kudos to them for trying. Not every attempt at being different and creative results in something better, though. Anyway, if you would shut the fuck up with your, "IF U DISAGREE YUR A FUCKING MORON FUCK FUCK FUCK SHITFUCKASSBITCHCUNTASSAAAAFFGGGGSOJGODKGPSIDJ" type posts, I wouldn't have posted anything at all. Apparently you're too stupid to realize that someone may not share your taste in games, but at the same time not be a complete moron.

 

[DefJam101]

I'm afraid that's just not possible, Talby.

 

[bhlaab]

You don't understand, Talby. Pihranha Bytes had the balls to do something different. Most developers try to make something "good" with camera, movement, and interface controls that don't make one "wretch" They're just, you know, innovators like that.

For added hardcoreness, try playing with a blindfold and bamboo chutes under your fingernails

 

[nomask7]

This is why humanity needs eugenics.

I said everything there is to say in my previous post. Learn to think, kids, learn to read, etc....

Come to think of it, I said everything there is to say in my first post in this thread.

Come to think of it, it's all in my sig.

 

[WalterKinde]

My moment of shame in Gothic 2 came when i got my ass handed to me by the bully in the first town to have to sneak in/fake your way into.
I thought i had a pretty decent kit/weapon/armor and he still wiped the floor with me, then had the gall to steal my shit off of me.
Well that made me pay more attention to how i fought, instead of wild button mashing and relying on armor rating/sword damage , potions to see me through, yeah defeating him and other enemies really gave you a sense of accomplishment in the game cause it required thinking your way through.