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Arcanum setting makes no sense

Daemongar

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.


Winged spears was the main weapon to hunt in medieval times because the "wings" could stop a charging animal, a sword would not stop him even if kills him. Best case scenario, you kill him and die.

IDK any case of a polar bear being stopped by bows or swords BUT in Alaska, there are cases of people stopping it with .44 magnum ( https://www.ammoland.com/2023/05/polar-bear-attack-stopped-with-a-44-magnum-in-alaska/#axzz8hXLEKSQu ). As for .338 lapua magnum, there is no land animal which it can't kill.
I'd agree if we were talking about a 5th edition Polar bear - 12 ac, 45 hps - two crappy attacks per round. A large rifle could easily dispatch it.

PolarBear_5th_Ed.png

However, oddly enough, the 2nd edition Polar bear has a 6 ac (they were defined differently in those days) and almost twice as many hit points- and has 3 attacks plus a hug for big big damage. So two claws, a bite, and if a claw rolls an 18 or better - you take an automatic 3-18. Thats a very respectable 7-50 hps of damage per round!

PolarBear_2nd_Ed.png

The more you think about it, when you put the rifle on your shoulder OR .44 magnum, you'd better pray its a 5th edition Polar bear (and you are at least 5th level to have a better chance of hitting, but that goes without saying!)
 

ShiningSoldier

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I think the entire idea that "technology decreases the effectiveness of magic" sounds stupid, at least in Arcanum implementation. It would be better if some specific components from the technological stuff were harmful for magic. For example, gas. Or even oil itself. If oil is used, magic cannot be properly casted nearby.
Imagine, how the world of Arcanum could develop: everyone forgot about magic because of oil. Then - global warming, people try to stop using oil, start using green energy... and suddenly magic is back on the table!
 

RaggleFraggle

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The "magic vs tech" conflict requires careful forethought to avoid the problems pointed out in this thread. Now, one explanation I've seen is that magic is EMP. You can see this in settings like Amethyst. The magic only interferes with electronics, but not purely mechanical technology. So gunpowder and steam still works just fine, but computers fail.

In order for magic to interfere with steampunk, you'd need to invent new physics just for steampunk that magic interferes with, like the ether I mentioned. It's not as complicated as some are making it out to be. If real EMP can negatively affect electronics without making your head explode, then you should be able to use the same logic for fictional physics. Now here's the idea I had for doing that:

Steampunk relies on combustibles, right? Wood, whale oil, fossil fuels, etc. So... lets replace the fuel source with a magical equivalent. Instead of coal, gas, and oil, fossil fuels and gunpowder on this world are made of concentrated "ether". Meanwhile, magic is powered by "magicules". Both ether and magicules are naturally occurring and are required for natural processes in trace amounts, but when their concentrations increase they interfere with each other, like trying to dowse a forest fire with a bucket of water or drop a molotov into a lake, despite humans needing both water and combustive processes to survive. Trying to cast a spell on a train would cause the ether engine to malfunction, while trying to fire a gun inside a ritual circle would cause it to shoot a blank or explode in the hand.
 

S.torch

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to Make Magic Great Again is a seperate thing from the setting
This is a very good point and all that. But at the end of the day me as the player I'm getting barred out of roleplaying options that the game is presenting as equal. And Arcanum is contradictory in this point. Example:

In the beginning town of the game a mage gives you the quest to destroy town's new engine. If you go and do it, probably killing the dwarf that guards it in the process, your alignment will shift to evil. So your options are: a) do nothing b) do it and get labelled as evil.

a) is just not fun. I'm a magic-user, I want to do magic things.
Meanwhile b) is basically punishing the player for doing the quest, telling him/her that what you did is evil. But then everywhere you go technology is showed being a negative force in the world, hell, the main technological city in the game is controlled by a depraved cabal but you get to do NOTHING about it.

The game would've been more enjoyable if you were just left to enjoy your victories over technology no matter how small they were. Instead of trying to lecture you with the alignment system or just not supporting your style of play and decisions.
 

Ryan muller

Educated
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Messages
437
Actually, it does. Neither Star Trek nor Star Wars are simulations. They are simply works of fiction. They are nowhere near being realistic
Except my entire point revolved around internal consistency within its own universe rules and ideas

Having sorcerers applying their magic within a productive schedule or winning a war due to the logical results of being far greater than its adversaries isnt realism because theres no magic in reality, its however, logical considering the universe and its rules.

You missed the point because i said "simulation" but it doesnt matter much since the entire point revolves around suspending disbelief and the ultimate failure of buying such a ridiculous setting.
 

Cryomancer

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The more you think about it, when you put the rifle on your shoulder OR .44 magnum, you'd better pray its a 5th edition Polar bear (and you are at least 5th level to have a better chance of hitting, but that goes without saying!)

I was talking about IRL Polar Bears, but yes, 5e nerfed a lot of monsters and mundane animals.

Yeah so Tech would basically be another form of magic. Arcanum Magic vs Tech runs on rule of cool, it wasn't written for you to step back and think about it.

Yes and no, for some people here, fictional settings must make absolute sense in every aspect.
 

Ryan muller

Educated
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Yes and no, for some people here, fictional settings must make absolute sense in every aspect.
I will quote my post:

And i know that every game will have some nonsensical stuff and at times, devs do care more about in-game functions than logical cohesion and if it works at the game's world, then yes, i know that i shouldnt question that hard the simulational aspects of the game if my knife can kill an automatron or why my extremely low caliber pistol can murder an iron golem, nor why the hell my dog's teeth are stronger than a Shotgun on close range

However, theres basic elements which are things that are the basis for the setting and that are extremely important to understand and be logical in how they work in-setting in order to suspend your desbelief and immerse yourself within a world and more often than not, Arcanum tear throught those elements for nothing but the sheer desire to include new gameplay elements and quantity to the game
 

RaggleFraggle

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Yes and no, for some people here, fictional settings must make absolute sense in every aspect.
That’s a strawman. What we’re concerned with is whether the internal logic of the world building makes sense in and of itself. The explanation that Arcanum itself uses, that tech works with nature and magic works against nature, makes no sense because the people who use magic are themselves of nature. Why does magic derail a train but not a wheeled cart or legs? That’s the internal inconsistency here.
 

Daemongar

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
The more you think about it, when you put the rifle on your shoulder OR .44 magnum, you'd better pray its a 5th edition Polar bear (and you are at least 5th level to have a better chance of hitting, but that goes without saying!)

I was talking about IRL Polar Bears, but yes, 5e nerfed a lot of monsters and mundane animals.

Yah, but now that you mention it, if you were a Snow Elf, first mentioned in Dragon #155 you'd probably have no problem managing that polar bear, as they can train bears (any kind!) as a pet or guard. Of course, as you probably know, Polar Bears weren't in the original Monster Manual (they make their appearance in MM2!) So, they imply polar bears but don't state that.
 

Axioms

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I think the OP is overestimating the availability of magic, the number of people competent to use it, and the breadth at which it was developed. The PC, like every game, is exceptional in ability and not representative of the broader setting.
The real problem is that the game was so small in scale and scope. Tim's Arcanum data video or w/e said there were like 40 "named npcs" or something? The lore may specify that magic is rare and difficult but the in-game experience conflicts with that.

Ludo-narrative dissonance or some shit eh?
 

RaggleFraggle

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I think Rise of Legends did this better by having steampunk and magic compete without causing mutual interference. One side used magic, the other used steampunk, they fought each other, then aliens with scifi magic tech showed up.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
The Codex Decline is real: Some guy posts a wall 'o text filled TO THE BRIM with spelling errors, and people don't immediately dismiss whatever word spaghetti was posted, but instead stretch things over six pages.

What has this world come to?
 

Beans00

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The Codex Decline is real: Some guy posts a wall 'o text filled TO THE BRIM with spelling errors, and people don't immediately dismiss whatever word spaghetti was posted, but instead stretch things over six pages.

What has this world come to?

I dismissed it, I said anyone who doesn't like arcanum is a bowlcut.


Pre 2010 join date unite.
 

Harthwain

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Except my entire point revolved around internal consistency within its own universe rules and ideas
Read up what hard sci-fi is (which I mentioned a few times already), because you make yourself look like a moron here.
 

Ryan muller

Educated
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Except my entire point revolved around internal consistency within its own universe rules and ideas
Read up what hard sci-fi is (which I mentioned a few times already), because you make yourself look like a moron here.
Lmao, i said nothing about hard sci fi your imbecile

I barely had stated anything related to the realism of the technology itself. You are really something, arent ya?
 
Last edited:

Ryan muller

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The Codex Decline is real: Some guy posts a wall 'o text filled TO THE BRIM with spelling errors, and people don't immediately dismiss whatever word spaghetti was posted, but instead stretch things over six pages.

What has this world come to?

:kingcomrade:
 

Beans00

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skaraher

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And in true Troika/Black Isle fashion, the last act of the game is linear, buggy and blatantly unfinished. :smug:

But still a better experience that most of the crap released in the last 10 years
 

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