Arcanum - worth a punt?

[Volrath]

This game is pretty bad. The combat ranks among the worst featured in any rpg. Character creation is cool with plently of options but the system ends up being so imbalanced this one could actually use a bit of Sawyering. And lets not talk about something like encounter design cause it's non-existent.

As a story and settingfag I could live with this but then there's the story that is generally dull and uninspired with some pretty lame twists towards the end. Moreover the game becomes total shit after Tarant which means the game falls flat on its face after about 15 hours playtime, taking you from one uninspired place with barely anything to do in to another. So in the end more than half of the game is pretty bad even at the part it supposedly shines in.

If there's one game that would actually confirm the Codex as a place of deluded madmen who prefer childhood nostalgia value over quality to the outside world it's this one. 5th best rpg of all time ever my ass.

You're a disgrace to our country.

For those playing with high res, you can change one line to turn off the scrolling limitations, which mitigates a lot of Arcanum's PITA pathfinding issues.

Interesting. Where can I find this? I've been putting off my next Arcanum playthrough for too long already.

 

[potatojohn]

Arcanum's combat is fine (it's much better than Fallout 1/2).

It's funny that codexers ended up blindly echoing an opinion that was originally a troll.

 

[hivemind]

idk
I played through it as a retarded melee half ogre and the combat was pretty bland

 

[Marquis de Lirium]

Interesting. Where can I find this? I've been putting off my next Arcanum playthrough for too long already.

Arcanum.exe -scrolldist:0

 

[Neanderthal]

The weird halflings - there's other weird easter eggs worth their while in Arcanum which reward you for aimlessly wandering the world map.

You should visit Ashbury, to the east of Tarant, which you can reach by foot (go straight east of Tarant until the shore) or by the train. I'd say reaching level 20 before BMC should save you some pain.

Took your advice about exploring, went back to Blackroot and closed that demon portal, found a wolf cave and an ancient maze. Went towards the east of Tarant, looted a tomb and killed some snotty dark elves who dared to stand between me and loot. Also visted the Dragon cave and got fucking raped without even a reacharound, think i'll come back to that. After all of that i'm creeping up on 25th level, time to see what's going on at the Black Mountain.

The Molochean Hand are still chasing me, and levelling up by the looks of it, some good loot on em.

 

[Jedi Exile]

I've never had any serious trouble in Black Mountain Mines. It was just a little bit more challenging than the rest of the game, and when I first reached it I was by no means an expert in Arcanum. It may force you to come back to Tarant at some point and restock, but is this game-breaking or something? So if you can't clear an area at your first try, it is supposed to mean that the game is shit, combat is shit, there is no balance etc.? This is just hilarious. Exactly this kind of logic brought us the decline.

 

[Backstabber]

People don't complain about Arcanum's combat because it's too hard, they complain because it's repetitive and it takes far too long (Unless you activate Diablo-mode)

 

[DraQ]

DraQ It is certainly possible. I suppose if I were on the Arcanum team, I would have argued that building the entire city that way would have resulted in an extremely claustrophobic and frustrating experience - despite my own inner history-nerd wanting a more accurate Victorian city.

Well, I don't think that trying to make something feeling like a Victorian city by making it nothing like Victorian city is a particularly bright idea.

I don't think Fallout would have benefited from more buildings done like the Cathedral, either.

The difference is that there was no worldwide architectural overhaul conducted with liberal use of blastwaves in Arcanum.

It was OK to have a few buildlings like that, but your own screenshots show how awkward it is, and I think we all remember how often party members would get stuck, too.
I think the FO style level development works best with relatively square gridded layouts, interspersed with custom-art "showcase" pieces made of large single-piece facades (which Arcanum in fact use to great effect in Dernholm castle, Caladon castle, Roseborough inn, Bates' residence, Qintarra/Tsen'Ang trees, etc).

The problem is that Arcanum does not a single of several things that could help make Tarant feel the part. It has not a single tall building, not even an occasional like the cathedral or that abbey map that got taken out. It does not emulate or fake z-axis even though isometric perspective is particularly effective in that aspect. It doesn't have shanties or cluttered environments. It doesn't have narrow alleys. It doesn't try to break up regular grid layout with extra wall orientations.

Even if it was just a handful of tall buildings (mostly in the back to not obscure the view), some cluttered narrow alleys, a bunch of shanties, a bit of elevated terrain or an external staircase and a diagonal street or two the effect would have been much better. Even if it was just one or two of the things mentioned it would have been a massive net incline - see Fallout Tactics for comparison. As it is, apart from the bridge and Bates' residence, everything in Tarant is shit, it's even worse than at least some of the wonderpful "cities" I had misfortune to experience in Oblivion.

Anyway, on the whole, I do agree with you that Arcanum does its best to frontload its frustrating aspects - which is sadly why it tanked so bad in sales on release, I'd think.

I would really love some Tarant/city replacement mod and something to fix insultingly retarded gunplay. I think that alone would go a long way towards making Arcanum palatable.

You should visit Ashbury, to the east of Tarant

Why?

Given how many people ragequit saying how difficult BMC is, and given how many people completely don't understand Arcanum combat mechanics on their first try, it's a super safe figure.

What's in there to not understand?
I mean firearms are just wrong, explosives hilariously spammable and mechanically retarded and aimed attack interface frustratingly obfuscated, but hard to understand?

 

[Old One]

The problem is that Arcanum does not a single of several things that could help make Tarant feel the part. It has not a single tall building, not even an occasional like the cathedral or that abbey map that got taken out. It does not emulate or fake z-axis even though isometric perspective is particularly effective in that aspect. It doesn't have shanties or cluttered environments. It doesn't have narrow alleys. It doesn't try to break up regular grid layout with extra wall orientations.

All of those things would be nice to have, but the lack of them doesn't bother me when I play the game because the city is full of good content. It has more content than either Athkatla or Khorinis, which are the two other cities that immediately come to mind when I think of good cRPG metropoli.

 

[Neanderthal]

I'd put Tarant up there with Vizima and Britain in some ways, still feel there's a damn lot of content I haven't touched.

I see what folk mean when they slag off Black Mountain, it's a bloody grind, lot of loot whoring and slaughter. Haven't got to the end of it yet, and Garfield is running low on weapons and his barbarian armour. Think i'll teleport back to Tarant at some point and do a clearout, have a break.

 

[Tigranes]

DraQ

I don't think Tarant was necessarily conceived as a Victorian city, though. I was only engaging with you on this because I love them and I'd have liked to see one as well, but I'm pretty sure it's simply incorrect. Tarant is basically a nonspectacular city from the magic-era, a poor man's Caladon (which you can still see in the Western parts of the city) that expanded very rapidly into the other side of the river in poorly built copypasta housing after the population and resources explosion via Bates' steam engine. As for the general comments, sure, I agree - since I started out by saying the aesthetics suck in Tarant.

The weird halflings - there's other weird easter eggs worth their while in Arcanum which reward you for aimlessly wandering the world map.

You should visit Ashbury, to the east of Tarant, which you can reach by foot (go straight east of Tarant until the shore) or by the train. I'd say reaching level 20 before BMC should save you some pain.

Took your advice about exploring, went back to Blackroot and closed that demon portal, found a wolf cave and an ancient maze. Went towards the east of Tarant, looted a tomb and killed some snotty dark elves who dared to stand between me and loot. Also visted the Dragon cave and got fucking raped without even a reacharound, think i'll come back to that. After all of that i'm creeping up on 25th level, time to see what's going on at the Black Mountain.

The Molochean Hand are still chasing me, and levelling up by the looks of it, some good loot on em.

Heh. You've probably done 90% of what's possible to do before BMC, and you're even overlevelled. Go for it and get on with the story / other side of mountains / etc.

 

[Dreaad]

I liked Arcanum but I do remember one thing I thought at the time that would have made the game better if the engine could handle it. They should have made Tarant a mega city by combining all the other cities into 1, putting it by the sea and spreading out the content a little more. Then replacing the other city locations on the map with more random little locations. Instead of making the steam engines a city to city thing they could have simply made it into a tram system from district to district with some larger train track being built to another city over the mountains somewhere.

 

[Snufkin]

Guys for ultimatle chalange, beat game with 0 kills on account. I managed to finish game this way at lvl 27.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

I liked Arcanum but I do remember one thing I thought at the time that would have made the game better if the engine could handle it. They should have made Tarant a mega city by combining all the other cities into 1, putting it by the sea and spreading out the content a little more. Then replacing the other city locations on the map with more random little locations. Instead of making the steam engines a city to city thing they could have simply made it into a tram system from district to district with some larger train track being built to another city over the mountains somewhere.

I think Tarant it's already the biggest city in any CRPG. Don't think the engine could handle. I remember in 2001 my PC had troubles in Tarant.

 

[Snufkin]

I think there was way to reduce Tarant lag back when pc's were weak. I think it had to do with disabling shadows or lightning, not sure it was long time ago.

Edit: Also I remember playing vanilla without any patches and there were balance issues, for example looking glass rifle would do 40-40 dmg and had 95% chance to hit with just 2 pts in firearms.

 

[DraQ]

DraQ

I don't think Tarant was necessarily conceived as a Victorian city, though. I was only engaging with you on this because I love them and I'd have liked to see one as well, but I'm pretty sure it's simply incorrect.

The thing is it doesn't necessarily need to be Victorian, all that matters is that it's an industrial revolution city.

Tarant is basically a nonspectacular city from the magic-era, a poor man's Caladon (which you can still see in the Western parts of the city) that expanded very rapidly into the other side of the river in poorly built copypasta housing after the population and resources explosion via Bates' steam engine.

This is pretty much the story of about any industrial revolution city, give or take the magic part and being non-spectacular.
There is no reason why it should produce results in fictional Tarant that would be so different from those in historical England.

As for the general comments, sure, I agree - since I started out by saying the aesthetics suck in Tarant.

I hope you don't mind discussing those points where we haven't reached agreement, then.

All of those things would be nice to have, but the lack of them doesn't bother me when I play the game because the city is full of good content.

Content is one thing, but sometimes the container matters as well and as far as those go Tarant is absolutely awful.

And then there are some other things - for a supposedly fresh and innovative setting Arcanum is chock-full of trite fantasy cliches of the worst kind - it's pretty much your standard D&D world complete with hurrdurr orcs, evil dark elves and clear-cut alignment system. Even if you are willing to suffer to get your monocled cRPG fix the Arcanum does its best to put you off.

I think Tarant it's already the biggest city in any CRPG.

Then you think wrong.

Pretty much all but smallest towns in TES II: Daggerfall completely crush Tarant in every possible way, with largest ones, like Daggerfall itself, looking like this:

(the 3d plan on the right is castle dungeon)

 

[Neanderthal]

Fuck me, just shows you how far Elder Scrolls have fallen when half a dozen huts now make a capital city, no such thing as decline eh?

Anyway after all that grind I think things are getting interesting, the Molochean Hand seem to be anticipating my actions (and keeping me well supplied,) the empty trapped Dwarven homes are eery in their emptiness and finally getting some answers from this lone mad survivor is damn interesting. The Black Mountain clan taken away by fellow Elves for their crime of giving technology to Man, seems really harsh and strange that the Dwarves would agree to it. Bates is gonna throw a right fucking wobbler I bet.

Story's really drawing me in now, like Torment it's really central to themes of the world i'm exploring by looks of it.

 

[JarlFrank]

Sure, I think a U7-style in-town opening where you get to toy with a lot of the non-combat options and experience some quests would have served it much better. But on the Codex of all places, a bad opening should be no excuse and shame on the player. You people played through the Temple of Trials, you can drag your arse to Tarant.

And for the aesthetic design of Tarant, yes, it is the weakest part, and I'm pretty sure it was simply the limitations of the assets they were working with. I doubt the Arcanum engine, similar to FO1/2 level editors, was capable of narrow, winding streets and the like, nor was it capable of shanty town style hovels piled on top of and across one another. It was the easiest for them to plop down some identical looking Fallouty shacks. That doesn't excuse it at all - it's a key weakness - but everything else about Tarant is amazing and you'll know this when you've done the quests.

Actually I like the introduction to Arcanum. You get to know it's a world with 19th century steampunk tech - you ride in a blimp that crashes, and on the corpses and in the debris you find some techy stuff like a camera. Then, you can decide to explore and find your first quest in a cave, or you can just go ahead and go to Shrouded Hills, a small mining town. Only after that you get to Tarant, and Tarant is talked about in Shrouded Hills as being a big city, so it builds up a bit of anticipation before you go there.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

The thing is it doesn't necessarily need to be Victorian, all that matters is that it's an industrial revolution city.
This is pretty much the story of about any industrial revolution city, give or take the magic part and being non-spectacular.
There is no reason why it should produce results in fictional Tarant that would be so different from those in historical England.

I hope you don't mind discussing those points where we haven't reached agreement, then.

Content is one thing, but sometimes the container matters as well and as far as those go Tarant is absolutely awful.

And then there are some other things - for a supposedly fresh and innovative setting Arcanum is chock-full of trite fantasy cliches of the worst kind - it's pretty much your standard D&D world complete with hurrdurr orcs, evil dark elves and clear-cut alignment system. Even if you are willing to suffer to get your monocled cRPG fix the Arcanum does its best to put you off.


Then you think wrong.

Pretty much all but smallest towns in TES II: Daggerfall completely crush Tarant in every possible way, with largest ones, like Daggerfall itself, looking like this:

(the 3d plan on the right is castle dungeon)

I ment isometric RPG's

 

[Neanderthal]

Bates did his nut, i'm no longer allowed anywhere near a train, and we're all off to the Black Isle. Wonder what that's a reference to? Decided to walk instead of teleport everywhere, aid exploration on my travels. Got to say I can see why the Elves are pissed about Morbihan, Orcs seem to be thriving there though and Gar got re-armoured and equipped thanks to them. Should I be keeping one of these Molochean Hand amulets?

 

[Old One]

Content is one thing, but sometimes the container matters as well and as far as those go Tarant is absolutely awful.

Your opinion seems to be that, despite how much content it contains in the form of quests and activities for the player to pursue, Tarant is terrible because it doesn't look nice enough.

I think there's nothing left to discuss.

 

[Tigranes]

Bates did his nut, i'm no longer allowed anywhere near a train, and we're all off to the Black Isle. Wonder what that's a reference to? Decided to walk instead of teleport everywhere, aid exploration on my travels. Got to say I can see why the Elves are pissed about Morbihan, Orcs seem to be thriving there though and Gar got re-armoured and equipped thanks to them. Should I be keeping one of these Molochean Hand amulets?

You should keep one amulet with you at all times, to save yourself some ragewalk later.

 

[roshan]

Finally made it out of the Dredge. After a fucking year and a half. Now I remember absolutely nothing about what I should be doing. I've even forgotten most of the mechanics.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Finally made it out of the Dredge. After a fucking year and a half. Now I remember absolutely nothing about what I should be doing. I've even forgotten most of the mechanics.

Luxury. My Dwarf has been in underwear for over a year, his clothes embarrassingly having been burned off in a self-inflicted fire dousing.

Street beggars chide and chortle at him. Even fellow dwarfs label me an embarrassment to the race. I can't find any dwarf sized fucking clothes ANYWHERE in Tarrant. Someone take pity on me.

 

[Beastro]

BROS NOT LIEKKING ARCANUM UIS A CRITICAL CHARACTAR FLAW

IT IS A BEAUTIFUL GEM THAT IS CVOVERED IN A THIN LAYER OF SHIT BUT FUCK THERE IS A DIAMOND UNDER THAT LITTLE BIT OF SHIT

BRO I PLAYED THROUGH AS A GUNSLUINGER WITH LITTLE TROUBLE

Playing its ages ago I was left liking it as a nice little game, but it left me wanting more, just not in the good way - it's incomplete by a wide margin and that desire left me wanting a sequel that would actually deliver enough of the world that should have been in the first one.