Are Action RPGs Dull?

[Davaris]

• Enemies keep their guard up until you show a weakness, like dropping your shield or swinging up to attack.
• Many enemies will time their attacks to get in between your strikes.
• A few enemy types will circle behind you while one draws your attention and try to stab you in the back.
• Enemies have different weapon types and will switch them according to the situation (i.e. archers switching to melee).
• Ranged attackers will relentlessly pepper you with attacks, forcing you to constantly move or use a shield.
• Enemies will use shields and slowly advance on you if you use ranged weapons, trying to close distance as quickly as possible, or in some cases they will turtle in cover to force you to change tactics.
• Many melee enemies will throw you off guard by varying attack patterns and canceling their combo chains.
• Boss enemies will use powerful attacks that send you flying near ledges, to send you falling to your death.
• Bosses are aware of the fact that players can roll and dodge, and will time and lead their attacks to prevent you from dodge-spamming.

Can you recommend any spoiler articles that discuss this part of the game in detail?

 

[Captain Shrek]

• Enemies keep their guard up until you show a weakness, like dropping your shield or swinging up to attack.
• Many enemies will time their attacks to get in between your strikes.
• A few enemy types will circle behind you while one draws your attention and try to stab you in the back.
• Enemies have different weapon types and will switch them according to the situation (i.e. archers switching to melee).
• Ranged attackers will relentlessly pepper you with attacks, forcing you to constantly move or use a shield.
• Enemies will use shields and slowly advance on you if you use ranged weapons, trying to close distance as quickly as possible, or in some cases they will turtle in cover to force you to change tactics.
• Many melee enemies will throw you off guard by varying attack patterns and canceling their combo chains.
• Enemies (including bosses) will chase you mercilessly, and many are able to jump up ledges etc. to prevent the use of cheese tactics.
• Boss enemies will use powerful attacks that send you flying near ledges, to send you falling to your death.
• Bosses are aware of the fact that players can roll and dodge, and will time and lead their attacks to prevent you from dodge-spamming.

.

Hmm. Show me a video of this please.

 

[chubs]

• Enemies keep their guard up until you show a weakness, like dropping your shield or swinging up to attack.
• Many enemies will time their attacks to get in between your strikes.
• A few enemy types will circle behind you while one draws your attention and try to stab you in the back.
• Enemies have different weapon types and will switch them according to the situation (i.e. archers switching to melee).
• Ranged attackers will relentlessly pepper you with attacks, forcing you to constantly move or use a shield.
• Enemies will use shields and slowly advance on you if you use ranged weapons, trying to close distance as quickly as possible, or in some cases they will turtle in cover to force you to change tactics.
• Many melee enemies will throw you off guard by varying attack patterns and canceling their combo chains.
• Enemies (including bosses) will chase you mercilessly, and many are able to jump up ledges etc. to prevent the use of cheese tactics.
• Boss enemies will use powerful attacks that send you flying near ledges, to send you falling to your death.
• Bosses are aware of the fact that players can roll and dodge, and will time and lead their attacks to prevent you from dodge-spamming.

.

Hmm. Show me a video of this please.

There are dozens of them on youtube alone that demonstrate much of what he is saying.

 

[Jasede]

Yes, but can you show me a notarized statement about the validity of these claims? Last I checked on Youtube the videos showed nothing but God of War-level QTE gameplay. I'm afraid unless you can come up with some more valid argument I find my position more and more confirmed.

 

[Machocruz]

3/10

 

[Brayko]

your mom is dull

 

[Metro]

Hmm. Show me a video of this please.

 

[Niektory]

Hmm. Show me a video of this please.

 

[Lancehead]

Good heavens, sea with great patience goes to great lengths to explain how Dark Souls combat works and that indeed one can't judge it by merely watching videos, yet we have Shrek still clinging to his BS claim and asking for a video. Just man up and admit you were wrong.

 

[Jaesun]

The only thing sea fails to explain (a point which Tim Cain also shares) is that even with all the cRPG stat mechanics, The game relies 90% in player skill.

NOT on your character skills.

 

[Davaris]

• Enemies keep their guard up until you show a weakness, like dropping your shield or swinging up to attack.
• Many enemies will time their attacks to get in between your strikes.
• A few enemy types will circle behind you while one draws your attention and try to stab you in the back.
• Enemies have different weapon types and will switch them according to the situation (i.e. archers switching to melee).
• Ranged attackers will relentlessly pepper you with attacks, forcing you to constantly move or use a shield.
• Enemies will use shields and slowly advance on you if you use ranged weapons, trying to close distance as quickly as possible, or in some cases they will turtle in cover to force you to change tactics.
• Many melee enemies will throw you off guard by varying attack patterns and canceling their combo chains.
• Enemies (including bosses) will chase you mercilessly, and many are able to jump up ledges etc. to prevent the use of cheese tactics.
• Boss enemies will use powerful attacks that send you flying near ledges, to send you falling to your death.
• Bosses are aware of the fact that players can roll and dodge, and will time and lead their attacks to prevent you from dodge-spamming.

What sea and others have described elsewhere of this game, makes it sound like Streetfighter in 3D. However, I think the above would be fun as a phased based game and there would be no argument, it was an RPG in that case.

 

[Metro]

The only thing sea fails to explain (a point which Tim Cain also shares) is that even with all the cRPG stat mechanics, The game relies 90% in player skill.

NOT on your character skills.

That's true for a lot of lot of ARPGs, though.

 

[Jaesun]

Yeah, and they are not cRPG's either.

 

[Metro]

Oh, was someone arguing Dark Souls is a cRPG? That's pretty silly.

 

[DragoFireheart]

There are a lot of bad aRPGs, but the well done ones are some of my personal favorites.

Namely, Dark Souls and Dragon's Dogma.

Note that Skyrim is not an aRPG. It's a hiking simulator. Same thing for Oblivion. Morrowind is more of a weird c/a/RPG mess with good lore, a decent story, but lots of the mechanics just sorta borrowed elements from other RPGs and just sorta mashed them together.

 

[anus_pounder]

This shit again ? ffs. Though I suppose its inevitable given the topic at hand.

 

[Giauz Ragnacock]

For all of Fable the lost chapters' faults I loved playing around with the spells. Before the god-like ego-stroking of the Prototype games there was Fable TLC. Assassin's Rush FTW!!!11!

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Good heavens, sea with great patience goes to great lengths to explain how Dark Souls combat works and that indeed one can't judge it by merely watching videos, yet we have Shrek still clinging to his BS claim and asking for a video. Just man up and admit you were wrong.

He had this exact discussion in the Dark Souls thread - including demanding videos - literally months ago. I stumbled across it earlier when looking for something. I don't think he intends to let up.

 

[bussinrounds]

The fuck. Codex doesn't know the difference between action rpgs and loot whoring games ?

 

[Papa Môlé]

aRPGs are better in first or third person perspective. Gothic's and Morrowind's of the world.

I like my ARPGs in second person.

As in, you go play one not me.

 

[Hobz]

Try to do that by yourself and come back telling us how it went. Most players don't even try to parry because it's easy to miss a parry and it can mean death if you get staggered as a result.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The only thing sea fails to explain (a point which Tim Cain also shares) is that even with all the cRPG stat mechanics, The game relies 90% in player skill.

NOT on your character skills.

That's true for a lot of lot of ARPGs, though.

It's also not actually true of dark souls. It doesn't require any player skill when you 3 shot bosses and one shot normal enemies and take 40 hits to die and block almost anything. And you can easily build a character like that within 20 minutes if you're good at the exploration and character building aspects. How much player skill is required is going to depend entirely on how powerful the character is and what sort of situations you put yourself in. If you arm yourself with a knife and a parrying dagger and charge into the middle of 5 enemies, you'd better have some fucking skills. If you're carrying around a heavily upgraded two hander with plenty of hp and engaging one enemy at a time, you could play the game with one hand.

 

[sea]

It's also not actually true of dark souls. It doesn't require any player skill when you 3 shot bosses and one shot normal enemies and take 40 hits to die and block almost anything. And you can easily build a character like that within 20 minutes if you're good at the exploration and character building aspects. How much player skill is required is going to depend entirely on how powerful the character is and what sort of situations you put yourself in. If you arm yourself with a knife and a parrying dagger and charge into the middle of 5 enemies, you'd better have some fucking skills. If you're carrying around a heavily upgraded two hander with plenty of hp and engaging one enemy at a time, you could play the game with one hand.

I agree with this. Although I think Damned Registrations exaggerates slightly, he is completely correct in saying that difficulty is vastly influenced by character build. Furthermore, knowledge of the game vastly trumps actual player skill on the hierarchy. Compared to most traditional RPGs that's pretty normal. Most bosses in Dark Souls are fairly easy, once you've learned their attack patterns and vulnerabilities, just like how in most turn-based RPGs it's knowledge of specific tactics to use against particular enemies that will help you win.

The only difference is that Dark Souls requires a modicum of coordination and reflexes, but I'm not sure I'd call those "skills" if you're at least somewhat familiar with how action-style games play. It's not like Bayonetta where you have to have perfect timing and finesse to win at the most challenging stuff - it's much closer to traditional dungeon crawlers where you learn as you play and get better not simply through leveling and acquiring items, but because you've figured out the best way to handle challenge.s

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Oh god, Captain Shrek is STILL doing the "Dark Souls, eh? Give me a video / look at this video" routine? Fucking let go.

 

[Gurkog]

Torchlight 2 is pretty fun on elite/hardcore. If you don't pay attention you will die instantly and the game will be over. It forces you to actually learn how to use tactics to survive, but can be a royal pain in the ass at times.