Review Around Cinci reviews IWD2

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Icewind Dale 2

<a href="http://www.aroundcinci.com/">Around Cinci</a> has popped up with their <A href="http://www.aroundcinci.com/gaming/review.asp?review=131">review</a> of <A href="http://icewind2.blackisle.com">IWD2</a>, giving it a glowing <b>8.9/10</b>. It's an incredibly short <a href="http://www.aroundcinci.com/gaming/review.asp?review=131">review</a>, pretty much devoid of anything but opinions that have no backing within the review.
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<blockquote><u>The Infinity engine is Black Isle Studio's brainchild</u> -- the programming heart and soul of every Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale game to date. Debuting in 1998 with the release of Baldur's Gate, the <u>Infinity engine provides an intense blend of tactical turn-based or real time combat and traditional RPGs</u>. Built upon the 3rd edition Dungeons and Dragons rule set, the Infinity engine utilizes a third-person isometric perspective common to many party based RPGs. The appeal, and resulting longevity, of the engine comes from the efficient, yet complex, gameplay it provides. Although not greatly changed since its debut, <u>it has been constantly refined to the point of perfection</u>. Finding success in game after game, Black Isle has continued the Infinity tradition with Icewind Dale II.</blockquote>
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Amazing. Simply amazing.
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This was spotted at <a href="http://rpgdot.com">RPGDot</a>.

 

[Dan]

The fact that this kind of reviews are not surprising are sad.

 

[Sol Invictus]

Amazing review, isn't it? And even more amazing is that reviewer. I'm sure that he'll just love to hear what I have to say.

The Infinity engine is Black Isle Studio's brainchild

Mr. Ben Rudick needs to take a mental note to do a little more research before publishing his next review. The Infinity Engine was designed and developed by BioWare, which has since left Interplay/Black Isle Studios on less than sterling developments. BioWare leased the engine to Black Isle Studios.

the Infinity engine provides an intense blend of tactical turn-based or real time combat and traditional RPGs.

It is, in fact, not a 'tactical turn-based' game, as the only turn-based elements present within the system are the weapon speeds, which aren't supposed to even exist in 3rd Edition rules, and is a shortcoming of the Infinity Engine itself.

The Infinity Engine is primarily a real-time system that isn't anywhere close to being as balanced as the ones you see in "proper" real-time strategy games. The Pause and Play mechanism was implemented simply because the D20 system (Dungeons and Dragons) does not function properly in a true real time system.

Although not greatly changed since its debut, it has been constantly refined to the point of perfection.

Actually, it hasn't. The boys at Black Isle had to utilize the original Infinity Engine from Baldur's Gate one when they programmed IWD2 because the drastic code changes made in BG2 did not allow them to implement the new features seen in IWD2. For that reason, the pathfinding in IWD2 is as messed up as it is in Baldur's Gate and it isn't as refined as the one seen in Baldur's Gate 2.

It is also the reason why they could not implement the spell TimeStop, because that spell was basically 'engineered into IE' by BioWare's people when they made BG2. The new features in IWD2 just conflicted with that.

It is a system that is full of flaws and very far away from perfection. It's not very versatile, and it's very difficult to modify without screwing up all the basics.

I am not denying the fact that Icewind Dale 2 provides an ample amount of enjoyment (It's provided me with over 40 hours of just that), but the engine it is built upon is far from being as 'perfect' as Mr. Rudick proclaims it to be.

Do your research, Rudick.

Multi Player: 8
While the multi-player support is lacking, games such as these do not lend themselves very well, if at all, to multi-player gaming.

Woo-hoo. That makes a whole lot of sense, there, Rudick.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I agree. This is really an awful review. What's worse is this guy most likely gets paid. He says the game is "great" throughout the thing, but there's absolutely NOTHING in the review to back up this claim other than it uses the Infinity Engine.

In fact, the Infinity Engine alone is responsible for a lot of the game's shortcomings. There are no Attacks of Opportunity, for example. This is because the pathfinding in the engine is so awful, you can only have five attacks per round maximum due to the real time nature of the engine, and the fact it's poorly written in the first place.

Think about it. Party based dungeon crawlers are little more than tactical games. That's what they are in a nutshell. However, you have IWD2, which claims to be a 3E Dungeon Crawler(re: tactical game), yet one of the biggest tactical rules in the 3E ruleset can't be done because it uses the Infinity Engine.

How is that even remotely close to perfection?

Like I said in the news post.. Amazing.

 

[Anonymous]

In response..........

Hello,

I am the author of the article you so graciously tore to peices in this thread. First off, the mistake concerning Black Isle developing the Infinity engine is completely my fault. I realized this the day after publication, and made the appropriate changes. I apologize for my confusion, or as you said, lack of research.

As much as you would like to deny it, the Infinity engine does provide turn-based as well as real time gaming. Interplay even boasts this capability in its press releases. I do not doubt that you have an incredibly extensive knowledge base on this subject, and could easily cite numerous technical flaws in my, and just about any, review. Next time I write a review I'll make sure to confer with you first.

Sincerely,

Ben Rudick

 

[Anonymous]

Re: In response..........

Hello,

I am the author of the article you so graciously tore to peices in this thread. First off, the mistake concerning Black Isle developing the Infinity engine is completely my fault. I realized this the day after publication, and made the appropriate changes. I apologize for my confusion, or as you said, lack of research.

As much as you would like to deny it, the Infinity engine does provide turn-based as well as real time gaming. Interplay even boasts this capability in its press releases. I do not doubt that you have an incredibly extensive knowledge base on this subject, and could easily cite numerous technical flaws in my, and just about any, review. Next time I write a review I'll make sure to confer with you first.

Sincerely,

Ben Rudick

Just because a company boasts it doesn't mean it's true. We have been disappointed by many games boasts before so were skeptical of anything a company says until we seen it first hand.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Re: In response..........

As much as you would like to deny it, the Infinity engine does provide turn-based as well as real time gaming

Do you even know what Turn Based is, Ben? Because the Infinity Engine doesn't provide it at all.

Turn Based is where one person executes all his actions, then completes his turn. The next person does their turn, and so on. Please tell me how the Infinity Engine does this.

It doesn't. The closest it comes is Phase/Round Based. which is similar to how Wasteland and Wizardy handle combat. At the beginning of the round, it allows you to set up all your moves for that round, and then you just watch it play out.

The obvious difference being that unlike Turn Based, when one thing is moving, everything else is as well. You only have two gamestates here, where it's either paused or everything is happening.

If you have two bowmen, and enemy and a friendly bowman, that means if one's shooting the other, the other most shooting him as well. That just doesn't happen in Turn Based.

Interplay even boasts this capability in its press releases.

Interplay boasts about a lot of things in their press releases. That doesn't make them true. It's what press types would call, "biased information". That's why press types should actually research what they're writing about.

I do not doubt that you have an incredibly extensive knowledge base on this subject, and could easily cite numerous technical flaws in my, and just about any, review. Next time I write a review I'll make sure to confer with you first.

Next time you write a review, try to actually list reasons why things are good. That's my main problem with your review. You drone on and on about how great the game is with nothing to back it up at all.

Even the part where you say the graphics are bad in IWD2, there's nothing explaining why you thought they were bad. Was it the fact they re-used a lot of sprites? Was it the fact the Infinity Engine doesn't do anti-aliasing? WHAT?

You also stated that it's too hard, but you never said what made it too hard. Was it the sheer number of enemies thrown at you? Very few resting places to regain spells? The lack of health potions? The lack of equipments? WHAT?

See what I'm getting at here, Ben?

 

[Vikjunk]

Re: In response..........

Just because a company boasts it doesn't mean it's true. We have been disappointed by many games boasts before so were skeptical of anything a company says until we seen it first hand.

Sorry about that, that was my post...

 

[Killzig]

Damn, you guys really took it to poor Ben. He's from Cincy, hasn't he suffered enough?

 

[Killzig]

If there is ever a full-scale nuclear war, only three things will remain: cockroaches, Styrofoam, and the Infinity engine. It was around when the gaming world was created, and will persist many years after the demise of humanity.

LOL! Ben, you silly boy. This is the last game that will use the IE engine. It's dead and buried my friend, get with the times.

Learning curve aside, Icewind Dale II is one incredible RPG. Interplay has always made very extensive, indepth games, and this one is not exception. From detailed character generation, to rich landscapes and NPCs, this game has an overabundance of all the things that make an RPG great. One could easily get 150 hours of solid, entertaining game play out of this game.

150 hours? I realize you're from cincy, and your only other option is going to a bengals game. But hell, even the bengals are more entertaining than 150 hours of monotonous goblin bashing.

Any hardcore RPG gamer cannot afford to pass up this game. It's incredibly complex, lengthy, and constantly challenging. But, if you shy away from reading long conversations and immersing yourself in the fantasy world, or are not looking for an especially challenging game, look elsewhere.

LoL. Ben found teh phunn33..

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Any hardcore RPG gamer cannot afford to pass up this game. It's incredibly complex, lengthy, and constantly challenging. But, if you shy away from reading long conversations and immersing yourself in the fantasy world, or are not looking for an especially challenging game, look elsewhere.

LoL. Ben found teh phunn33..

Yeah, you think he was playing Planescape: Torment?

 

[Anonymous]

Just a side note:

Hey guys,

If nothing else this thread has shown me that people actually DO read my reviews. I guess it takes a mistake (or a review full of them as you most likely will say) to bring the readers out from under their rocks. Just curious, how did you find the reivew? Oh, and I'm not from Cinci. I'm from Canton which is even worse. Make sure you guys read my Hitman 2 review that will be live Tuesday. But please, don't sugar coat your response like you did with this review, tell me what you really think.

Sincerely,

Ben

 

[Anonymous]

Completely off topic...........

After reviewing games for a while I've realized that it takes a really bad game to make you appreciate all the quality material being published. Icewind Dale II may not be the best of games, but it is in comparison to a game such as Tsunami 2265. Download this demo and tell me what you think. I've decided it's one of the worst games made in a long, long time.

http://www.gotgameentertainment.com/tsu ... 65Demo.exe

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

You obviously haven't tried ShadowFlare yet, Ben. :D

 

[Deathy]

Or Dungeon Odyssey, for that matter.

 

[Killzig]

Re: Just a side note:

Hey guys,

If nothing else this thread has shown me that people actually DO read my reviews.

It's a survival trait, being this cheerily optimistic. I mean you need it to live in Ohio right?

I guess it takes a mistake (or a review full of them as you most likely will say) to bring the readers out from under their rocks. Just curious, how did you find the reivew?

Well it all started in a chat room in some far off land, I think Canada. Someone provided a link and said it was worth a laugh. So we clicked and giggled at your silly review benny. 9 out of 10 times we probably wouldn't of even heard about it if it weren't so chock full o fun.

Oh, and I'm not from Cinci. I'm from Canton which is even worse.

Worse than Bungle Town!? YOU JEST.

Make sure you guys read my Hitman 2 review that will be live Tuesday.

Ben, why are you playing with us here on the board instead of doing your research!?

But please, don't sugar coat your response like you did with this review, tell me what you really think.

*giggles* at least he does sarcasm well, hey guys... you think maybe that IWD2 review was all sarcasm? Ben's underpaid so maybe he takes it out on his reviews ... the low rated games are actually good and the high rated games are double plus crap.

Sincerely,

Ben

I R Killzig, Roar!

After reviewing games for a while I've realized that it takes a really bad game to make you appreciate all the quality material being published. Icewind Dale II may not be the best of games, but it is in comparison to a game such as Tsunami 2265. Download this demo and tell me what you think. I've decided it's one of the worst games made in a long, long time.

Just because we've been fed a steady diet of shit for this long doesn't mean it's still not shit. You've just adapted and accepted, not made any sort of stunning realization. Your standards have lowered to accomodate the quality of the product you have to force yourself through. IWD2 has 150 hours of gameplay Ben? Please. Even the designers would scoff at something like that.