Assload of new OB-screens + videos courtesy of the Germans

[Section8]

Just for another fun comparison, here's a shot from a game that may not look quite as good up close, but doesn't have an obscenely steep LOD dropoff curve. (read: no curve.)

Oblivion's LOD "curve":

0ft               100ft               200ft

"Nextgen"-----------\
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    |
                    \----------> Antediluvian

 

[Makus]

I just took a peek at the Gothic 3 screens again, and I must say, they look infinitely betterr than that shit.

I could hand this on my wall.

And have you seen this "in motion"? Are you sure that it will look just like this in game?

 

[Data4]

I've seen a screenshot somewhere that showed a date. It was something like "Sunday, 3 Earthrise 3E154" or whatever. I'll see if I can find it again.

-D4

Find that shot, D4, and you'll have quite a hand-grenade to toss into the ESF Lore forum, or General for that matter....

Well, after going through every possible avenue I could think of, I can't find that shot. I remember it was a journal entry of some sort, and the date was at the top left. It was an OMG! ILLEEGEL!! shot that didn't last very long where it was. I could only find one shot of the journal, and that wasn't it.

Sorry.

-D4

 

[dongle]

Just for another fun comparison, here's a shot from a game that may not look quite as good up close, but doesn't have an obscenely steep LOD dropoff curve. (read: no curve.)

I'm not so sure that's not just crappy world-building there. Looks like they just forgot to add a texture at all. Only some vertex coloring. Take a look here:
http://www.justgamers.de/kmx/modul_cms/uploads/article/new/pc/Vergleich-1.jpg
Which is just to the left of your shot. Look at the hill you point out to the right. Blurry right? Looks like ass. But, now look at the hill to the left of the shot. See how that looks better, with sand/rock/grass textures? The un-textured hills are no farther away from the player than the textured ones. It's a glitch, or a world-building error, and looks awful, but it's not an LOD issue.

 

[Data4]

Just for another fun comparison, here's a shot from a game that may not look quite as good up close, but doesn't have an obscenely steep LOD dropoff curve. (read: no curve.)

I'm not so sure that's not just crappy world-building there. Looks like they just forgot to add a texture at all. Only some vertex coloring. Take a look here:
http://www.justgamers.de/kmx/modul_cms/uploads/article/new/pc/Vergleich-1.jpg
Which is just to the left of your shot. Look at the hill you point out to the right. Blurry right? Looks like ass. But, now look at the hill to the left of the shot. See how that looks better, with sand/rock/grass textures? The un-textured hills are no farther away from the player than the textured ones. It's a glitch, or a world-building error, and looks awful, but it's not an LOD issue.

Good point. The main hill in view there has good texturing all the way to the wall up and to the left, while the right side, as you say, looks like ass. Could it be a "view cone" deal, where if the player turns to the right, say, 45 degrees, the blurred out hill will come into focus, while the one that presently looks good will blur out?

-D4

 

[dongle]

Here we are lookin' right at it:
http://www.justgamers.de/kmx/modul_cms/uploads/article/new/pc/Vergleich-2.jpg

 

[FaranBrygo]

Is it possible that Oblivion has fallen right into the uncanny valley? Might this, among other reasons, account for the graphic shortfalls? I understand the uncanny valley deals with humanoid creations but might it apply to landscaping?

 

[Data4]

Here we are lookin' right at it:
http://www.justgamers.de/kmx/modul_cms/uploads/article/new/pc/Vergleich-2.jpg

*self smack* Doh... there's that 45 degree turn to the right. The only other thing I can think of is that the hill is actually further back than it appears. If you notice the point in the land where the good hill slopes into the water, it "pushes" the far shore further back into the scene. (Going by principles in layering the lay of the land in traditional 2D painting).

Or it could just be a glitch as you say. Maybe a tap on the W key to move the player just a hair forward would be enough to bring it into focus. This is wild speculation, though, and barring a comment from a dev (Here? HA!) this is one of those things we won't really know until played.

-D4

 

[dongle]

Actually now I'm wondering if it's in a different cell? You know how the MW exterior was divided up into cells, and it loaded the one you were in, and the eight surrounding you? Maybe then next cell over didn't get fully loaded somehow, and if you move forwards a bit over an invisible barrier it'll pop in? If that, or S8's LOD thing, is happening constantly it'll be annoying as hell.

I understand what you mean about the shore being farther back. Surely tho there are areas on the "good" hill father away then the closest areas of the "bad" hill? Is hard to tell from the screenshot.

 

[dongle]

Is it possible that Oblivion has fallen right into the uncanny valley?

Well, I think the landscaping looks pretty good overall. But, yes, I suppose the UV could apply to one. I think that's -definitely- what's wrong with the NPCs. They obviously used photos as a basis for the textures. The crappy lighting, no self shadows, glow-in-the-dark skin, and pockmarked bump mapping keeps them looking way off. Clearly not photo-realistic, yet far from a carton or painting == creepy as hell. Good call there!

Edit: This dude could be in the dictionary next to the "uncanny valley" entry!

Double Edit: Didn't realize until I linked it the shots in that gallery are mondo sized. HTML tag in the popup made 'em look smaller. Anyways, up close this Hirtel guy is -really- creepy! Sort of like Elvis after he's been dead three weeks. . . .

 

[Gwendo]

Whatever the reason, that's what we see. And what we see is shitty graphics in everything 100 meters further away.

But that shouldn't be a let down. I don't see anyone complaining about Spidweb's graphics. Those who play it, play it as it is.

You're just wishing Oblivion would be THE GAME, but it won't. Just acept that and you'll enjoy it for what it is.

 

[Venom]

Oh dear the game is sluggish in those videos. Reminds me of when I first got Morrowind... those were the days.

Actually, it's stated that the videos are laggy because the video card used to take them is shitty.

 

[Elwro]

Edit: This dude could be in the dictionary next to the "uncanny valley" entry!

Holy fuck, the screen's so funny... Thx!

 

[Venom]

The point still is: These screens represent the game on normal PCs, not uber computers and 500$ consoles.


I'm slightly pissed that Bethesda didn't show us that and act like the game always look perfect independently of the computer it runs on.

 

[Section8]

Actually now I'm wondering if it's in a different cell? You know how the MW exterior was divided up into cells, and it loaded the one you were in, and the eight surrounding you? Maybe then next cell over didn't get fully loaded somehow, and if you move forwards a bit over an invisible barrier it'll pop in? If that, or S8's LOD thing, is happening constantly it'll be annoying as hell.

I understand what you mean about the shore being farther back. Surely tho there are areas on the "good" hill father away then the closest areas of the "bad" hill? Is hard to tell from the screenshot.

Actually, it could possibly be an adjacent cell or something such, rather than a cutoff at a certain distance, but there's still something going very wrong with the LOD. The AF settings don't seem to be fucked up on the "good" hill, so so I'm not inclined to disbelieve the "hoechst moeglich detailstube" claim.

I also find it very hard to believe it's dodgy world design. Maybe if it was someone with an agenda intentionally seeking out a dodgy looking bit and taking a screenshot of some obscure location, but I doubt that's the case here.

Take a look at the other shot that has a big expanse of terrain in view, and it's only the water that hides the sudden falloff (although admittedly there could be graduations under there too.) Also notice the far distant hills seem to have about as much texture detail as the shoreline.

But that shouldn't be a let down. I don't see anyone complaining about Spidweb's graphics. Those who play it, play it as it is.

You're just wishing Oblivion would be THE GAME, but it won't. Just acept that and you'll enjoy it for what it is.

Maybe, but is it so wrong to compare "what it is" against "what it has been claimed to be"?

Besides, my criticisms are not so much levelled at the graphical quality, but the fact that the contrast in graphical quality is damaging to the game's ability to plausibly emulate a fantasy world. That's a core feature of the series. I'd be quite happy with lower detail graphics across the board, rather than glaring differences in detail levels.

 

[Jon]

Am I missing something or is the difference between medium and high settings an occasional shrubbery and the odd rock?

 

[Elwro]

And barrels!

 

[Makus]

I'm slightly pissed that Bethesda didn't show us that and act like the game always look perfect independently of the computer it runs on.

You know that it's naive to belive that there's no difference in graphics, depending on your system? You belived that it'll always look the same, but with worse performance? Gimme a break...

 

[Sirbolt]

Yes. 'Render' meaning the (colloquial?) term for graphics which have not been generated in real time by the final game-engine, and which are at a higher resolution and overall quality (lacking any LOD loss and artifacts for example) than the final look of the game.

It's a qualitative judgment I make on G3's shots, based on seeing countless publicity shots of games in the past, but I remain confident that it's accurate.

46.) In the first Gothic, I was always amazed at how I could climb a mountain and still be able to look down into the valley below. This long viewing distance was also seen in Gothic 2, although even at 300% it always felt a bit shorter than in the original Gothic. I loved being able to see so far ahead of myself, as it really helped my immersion factor within the game. But these new screenshots worry me. None of them show any vast areas where I can judge how far I'll be able to see before the cut-off fog sets in. So my question is this: will your new technology still allow players to have long reaching viewing distances, or will they be shorter because of the more detailed graphics ? by Matthias Kreku

Yes, we plan to integrate long viewing distances. One can see far over the landscape, recognize contours, far-flung forests or striking places in the distance. But this option can surely be used on high performance machines only and should be disabled on weak computers, since it requires a high amount of graphics power and memory.
The immediate environs will be detailed, since miscellaneous optimizations will be used. For highest detail (watching from above the hills at a village and nevertheless distant items, villagers and animals can be identified as such) a computer with optimum equipment is a need. But like in Gothic 1 and 2 you will be able to adjust the amount of details.
The screenshots apply to the first Pre-Alpha-version of the game, where these systems and optimizations were integrated only partly or not at all, so we decided to switch the long-view feature off for taking them.

 

[Irwanday01]

I've seen a screenshot somewhere that showed a date. It was something like "Sunday, 3 Earthrise 3E154" or whatever. I'll see if I can find it again.

-D4

Find that shot, D4, and you'll have quite a hand-grenade to toss into the ESF Lore forum, or General for that matter....

Well, after going through every possible avenue I could think of, I can't find that shot. I remember it was a journal entry of some sort, and the date was at the top left. It was an OMG! ILLEEGEL!! shot that didn't last very long where it was. I could only find one shot of the journal, and that wasn't it.

Sorry.

-D4

all of the illegal pics I have are dated 3E 433, The are the russian pics.

 

[dongle]

I also find it very hard to believe it's dodgy world design. Maybe if it was someone with an agenda intentionally seeking out a dodgy looking bit and taking a screenshot of some obscure location, but I doubt that's the case

That -is- pretty unlikely I have to admit, just didn't look like it was distance based in your first example. Especially considering that's the Imperial City's backyard, you'd think they'd textured it. I also have a feeling that's where you first emerge from the dungeon tutorial, some previewer said you come out looking over water at a walled city. If that's the first damn outdoor cell you see, you better believe they spent some time crafting it. That makes it hard to believe your first view is of an obvious graphical glitch too, whether LOD or cell based. Dunno what to believe here, as you say time will tell.

 

[The Internets]

I've seen a screenshot somewhere that showed a date. It was something like "Sunday, 3 Earthrise 3E154" or whatever. I'll see if I can find it again.

-D4

Find that shot, D4, and you'll have quite a hand-grenade to toss into the ESF Lore forum, or General for that matter....

Well, after going through every possible avenue I could think of, I can't find that shot. I remember it was a journal entry of some sort, and the date was at the top left. It was an OMG! ILLEEGEL!! shot that didn't last very long where it was. I could only find one shot of the journal, and that wasn't it.

Sorry.

-D4

all of the illegal pics I have are dated 3E 433, The are the russian pics.

So the russian version of the game is getting a German translation?Makes sense.

 

[The Internets]

I also find it very hard to believe it's dodgy world design. Maybe if it was someone with an agenda intentionally seeking out a dodgy looking bit and taking a screenshot of some obscure location, but I doubt that's the case

That -is- pretty unlikely I have to admit, just didn't look like it was distance based in your first example. Especially considering that's the Imperial City's backyard, you'd think they'd textured it. I also have a feeling that's where you first emerge from the dungeon tutorial, some previewer said you come out looking over water at a walled city. If that's the first damn outdoor cell you see, you better believe they spent some time crafting it. That makes it hard to believe your first view is of an obvious graphical glitch too, whether LOD or cell based. Dunno what to believe here, as you say time will tell.

I doubt it. I remember a preview from a couple of weeks back specifically noting the use of incredibly low resolution textures for distance drawing.

What's most damaging is you'll notice none of Bethesda's outdoor screenshots show an area like the new German pics do. Every one of the shots is always in the middle of a super dense grassy area or looking above the horizon. It's almost as if they've specifically planned it that way. Gee, i wonder.

And to who said they'll play Oblivion just to take pics of the areas used in Bethesda's promotional media--why not take pics of the areas from the Russian 'beta'.

One final point: Remember when the Russian shots first got leaked and the uproar it caused? We only got one semi-official response, from MSFD, who said he thought the pics 'weren't a good indication of the games actual quality'. He then blamed the .ini file and some garble about "tons of settings which are tweaked daily" Yeah right. It was the weakest response I've ever heard and all but confirmed the pictures were very close to the final product.

Finally, the new German pics have the 'new' shadowing system, something the Russian ones didn't have.

 

[Section8]

Another shot courtesy of JustGamers.de, where you can see the hill in question, from a greater distance.

To the left and right of screen, there's barely any texture detail, and in the middle there's enough to create really obvious tiling artifacts. Where's the happy medium?

 

[Xi]

What you're seeing is a lack of Anisotropic Filtering past the first hill. It's to be expected on a midrange PC though because AF can hurt performance.

http://www.answers.com/topic/anisotropic-filtering

On maximum detail, it should go as far as the eye can see. Youd need a monster machine to do it properly though.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

i don't think so, look at this, bottom right of the hill, the higher quality textures are being abruptly capped by i presume the engine (or hopefully just an ini setting) and is being replaced with a low quality texture.