Baldur's Gate #BaldurGate: Siege of Dragonspear

[Lacrymas]

You will start in the Undercity with the party you've defeated Sarevok with, I thought that was a given. You become the "hero of Baldur's Gate" by accident and you don't end the game that way, when do we actually learn we are the hero of Baldur's Gate? The dukes realize you exist when you crash the doppelganger party with Sarevok and then he escapes to the Thieves' Maze, by which point the game is 99% over. There's no need for you to be the hero of Baldur's Gate at all, you stopped Sarevok, great, give me my medal and leave me alone, I have better shit to do. The most obvious and logical thing to do after killing Sarevok is trying to find out more about your heritage. You might not get anywhere, but you get Irenicus' attention which sparks BG2 (he could've been an undercover companion even). Not to mention that this works for all parties, evil parties don't care about Baldur's Gate at all, let alone being heroes of it. Sure, you can spin it and say "oh, but they are just using the fame and fortune blah blah blah". Yeah, but Occam's Razor still exists. You can pull whatever story you want from your ass, it doesn't mean it's a good continuation. Caelar's crusade is NOT a logical continuation no matter how you spin it, it's a random idea. Being in an army is also not a good idea after the specific adventuring of BG1.

There's also the fact that SoD is not a prequel, it's an interquel which needs to have something in common with the other two ends. Why do we care if Caelar is a Bhaalspawn? You yourself said that this is BG2's territory. You can't have it both ways, you either have any interest in your heritage and want to explore it or not. If you do, rummaging through the Undercity is the next move, if you don't then Caelar doesn't matter to you in 99% of motivations (the other 1% is being a paladin like Ajantis, that's "what they do"), even as a "hero of Baldur's Gate", a title you never had a goal to obtain, let alone try to justify and uphold. Simple as that. I'm perfectly aware that they wanted to flex their writing muscles, but logical continuity is much more important than whatever rehashed idea you (the people at Beamdog) happen to like currently, especially in this context. Caelar could've been a major side quest in the new structure I'm proposing, but not the center of attention, she could've even been a companion and her quest trying to start the crusade. There were many other options which didn't involve randomly stumbling into whatever mess they thought up. In the end it did end up as fanservice either way.

 

[Delterius]

You will start in the Undercity with the party you've defeated Sarevok with, I thought that was a given.

You won't because there won't be content for all BG1 characters.

You become the "hero of Baldur's Gate" by accident

You stopped an evil demigod, war with Amn and saved the Dukes. That's no accident.

when do we actually learn we are the hero of Baldur's Gate?

When you are living the good life in the Ducal Palace.

The dukes realize you exist when you crash the doppelganger party with Sarevok and then he escapes to the Thieves' Maze, by which point the game is 99% over.

The aforementioned stopping a war, saving the rulers and killing an evil demigod. Hero material right there.

There's no need for you to be the hero of Baldur's Gate at all

That would contradict BG2.

I have better shit to do

Killing the remnants of the Iron Throne and then investigating the warlady who is sending assassins after you.

The most obvious and logical thing to do after killing Sarevok is trying to find out more about your heritage.

The aforementioned warlady is rumoured to be a Bhaalspawn, so its two rabbits with a stone.

You might not get anywhere, but you get Irenicus' attention which sparks BG2 (he could've been an undercover companion even).

Yeah, that already happened in BG1 when two bhaalspawn fought in the Undercity. Irenicus is already onto you since the beginning.

Not to mention that this works for all parties, evil parties don't care about Baldur's Gate at all, let alone being heroes of it.

They all followed you into becoming heroes for a reason. Money, power and fame. And they also desert you after the whole deal with the Iron Throne is finally over.

Caelar's crusade is NOT a logical continuation no matter how you spin it, it's a random idea.

Everything I pointed out is factual and while Caelar's crusade is an obvious red herring your motivations to follow up on it are all logical. For all you know she's the one trying to kill you. She might be another Bhaalspawn and she threatens the good life you earned by killing Sarevok. Etc.

Being in an army is also not a good idea after the specific adventuring of BG1.

Stop pretending this is somehow a war story. It isn't. You spend 95% of the runtime adventuring and dungeoneering. You fight two battles as a champion in an army filled with mercenaries and adventurers. One of which can come down to a one on one between you and an enemy general. This is very basic Sword and Sorcery plot.

Why do we care if Caelar is a Bhaalspawn?

Because as far as you know she's trying to kill you by sending assassins after you. This is the same motivation as Baldur's Gate, except without Gorion.

You can't have it both ways, you either have any interest in your heritage and want to explore it or not.

Re read what I wrote. I said that you can't supercede BG2 as the game where you learn everything about your heritage. Which is why its a good thing SoD creates a story with Bhaal elements, as opposed to a story about Bhaalspawn. Its the difference between being an expansion of BG1 and ToB.

If you do, rummaging through the Undercity is the next move

You already have and you have killed the remnants of the Iron Throne in there. Its the beginning of the game.

if you don't then Caelar doesn't matter to you in 99% of motivations

Yes, there's a vast universe of potential motivations only constrained by your imagination. The ones excepted are the ones the game gives you. She's presumably trying to kill you and she might be another Bhaalspawn.

even as a "hero of Baldur's Gate"

Its what you are at the end of BG1, its what BG2 said you are and its a plot point of SoD. You might as well complain about why Charname can't leave the Sword Coast for other pastures in BG1. Why would I care about Gorion? Why would I care about the 'iron crisis'? You either play the game or not and its something you do while rationalizing through any alignment. Lawful Goods be Lawful Goods, Evils like the power, etc.

I'm perfectly aware that they wanted to flex their writing muscles

They have to, otherwise you have a non story. Your premise would net us a game that is all foreshadowing and no story.

It'd be best if the Siege of Dragonspear Castle had more to do with the cults of Cyric and Bhaal but that's working within a 'random idea with no logical continuation despite the logic being there since Baldur's Gate 2 was released 10 years ago'.

in the new structure I'm proposing

There is no structure to what you propose because there can't be anything that supercedes BG2. You'd investigate enough about Bhaalspawn to foreshadow ToB and then Irenicus and suddenly the game ends. A prequel needs its own identity otherwise its just fanservice. Oooh, ever heard of people called Balthazar and Amelisaan? I heard they have something to do with Bhaal!

There were many other options which didn't involve randomly stumbling into whatever mess they thought up.

They'd all be random according to you if they weren't a literal foreshadow of BG2.

 

[Lacrymas]

No, no, no, no, no aaaaand no. You think of it from a very unusual perspective where SoD has already happened and you are trying to tie it to BG1, which is completely bonkers. You are aposteriori projecting SoD's story like it has to have happened this way . You might be the hero of Baldur's Gate, but that doesn't mean it should've been used as a plot device, that's what I mean. The title you are given is an accident, not the things you did for it. It's also meaningless, an honorary gesture. There was no need for them to write assassins to come for you, sent my Caelar. You don't need any of this, let alone try to justify it. Like I said, you can ass-pull all you want and try to meander about the issue like they did, but Occam's Razor still exists and it demands the lack of the crusade being the main plot. There is no negotiation allowed here. It either happens logically or, if it can't, it doesn't happen at all and it was pointless and unnecessary for them to try to do it.

 

[Delterius]

You think of it from a very unusual perspective where SoD has already happened and you are trying to tie it to BG1, which is completely bonkers.

What in God's name are you blabbering about? This isnt about tying things to BG1, its about BG2.

Because you know? Baldur's Gate 2 already happened.

The Prequel to Baldur's Gate 2 can't contradict or supercede it.

Siege of Dragonspear needs to develop from BG1 while at the same time not doing things that render Baldur's Gate 2 redundant. You can explore the Bhaal heritage, but you can't make it the central focus of the entire game. The expansion needs to have its own story. Which is why your premise has very limited potential that, in fact, was already covered by SoD as it is. That's what Irenicus, Boareskyr and the Temple of Bhaal already are.

You keep talking about how logical continuation is important but you don't seem to actually care about it aside from your interpretation of what the saga should be.

You might be the hero of Baldur's Gate, but that doesn't mean it should've been used as a plot device, that's what I mean.

It has to be used as a plot device because its the plot device of the sequel. You were the Hero of Baldur's Gate. People began suspecting you were Bhaalspawn yourself. 'Dark circumstances' forced you out of the city, when you became vulnerable and were kidnapped. It is spelled out in the intro to Baldur's Gate 2.

The title you are given is an accident, not the things you did for it.

You only become a Hero to someone if you set out to do so beforehand?

Or are you slowly realizing there's nothing accidental here and you just didn't pay attention to things? Just like you did in Pillars, I might add.

There was no need for them to write assassins to come for you, sent my Caelar.

Sometimes your character's motivations are molded by the world they are in. Like when Sarevok sent assassins after you.

Like I said, you can ass-pull all you want and try to meander about the issue, but Occam's Razor still exists and it demands the lack of the crusade being the main plot.

In Baldur's Gate 1 an evil black armored man tries to kill you and ends up killing a loved one (Gorion) and keeps sending assassins after you.

In Baldur's Gate 2 an evil warlady apparently tries to kill you and ends up hurting a loved one (Imoen). She sent assassins after you.

There was also this whole thing about an Iron Crisis and or Crusade but BY GOD there was this guy called Occam. He wrote somethings about how simple explanations are logical which just shows how secondary plotlines are totally useless in my sword and sorcery adventure.

 

[Lacrymas]

Where do you see a contradiction or supersession? They can write it in such a way as for you to find nothing in your travels, but still adventure around, it's not even necessary to have a main plot that is completed, as long as it brings you to "mysterious assailants" all is fine. Let's say that another temple or library of Bhaal is your ultimate destination, have the assailants knock you out at the gates of it. You still don't understand what I mean by the title being an accident. That's because you cut up my thought and you can't follow it properly. It doesn't matter that you are the hero of Baldur's Gate because that's not a title your character desires, fights for or wants to uphold. It's an honorary gesture given to you by the dukes. You can still be known like this and still not be in an army fighting Caelar, i.e. you are known like this regardless of what you do.

 

[Delterius]

contradiction

You keep contradicting the intro to Baldur's Gate 2, claiming that its plot points are unnecessary. Its however a fact that you became a Hero to Baldur's Gate. That stuff happened afterwards. You should know the drill by now.

supersession?

If you go much farther than what Dragonspear already did on investigating the Bhaal heritage, then much of Baldur's Gate 2 and Throne of Bhaal become redundant. Superceded by fanfiction 10 years too late.

They can write it in such a way as for you to find nothing in your travels, but still adventure around, it's not even necessary to have a main plot that is completed, as long as it brings you to "mysterious assailants" all is fine.

That's what happened, actually. Except that the game actually has a plot to it.

Let's say that another temple or library of Bhaal is your ultimate destination, have the assailants knock you out at the gates of it.

How boring is that? A whole story about investigating Bhaal and where you learn nothing at the end? How many temples and libraries of Bhaal do you want to visit for purposes of cliffhanging?

You still don't understand what I mean by the title being an accident. That's because you cut up my thought and you can't follow it properly.

Don't flatter yourself Mr. 'Occam's Razor demands my preferred screenwriting'.

It doesn't matter that you are the hero of Baldur's Gate because that's not a title your character desires, fights for or wants to uphold.

Who the fuck are you to say what my character wants?

Want to talk about logic? How many PCs out there wouldn't expect to be hailed as a hero after saving the city and her dukes from assassination and destructive war against Amn, the most powerful nation that part of the Forgotten Realms? How many PCs wouldn't chase another rumoured Bhaalspawn who's sending assassins after him? Who cares if there's an army travelling there along the way. Who cares if the Dukes asked you for support. If you must be such a contrarian you should stick to RPGs with C&C to them. BG never had that and always pinned its preferred motivations to your PC.

It's an honorary gesture given to you by the dukes.

Honor, fame and wealth. Recognition for one's deeds. Nobody would go in an adventure for such things. No sir. These plot points are just so random and mindblowing they stick to decades old genre conventions.

You can still be known like this and still not be in an army fighting Caelar i.e. you are known like this regardless of what you do.

Which is why this is one of your motivations for adventuring your way towards Caelar. You know, the other being an attempt at your life.

 

[pippin]

why tho

 

[Mexi]

It's funny how much some of you reach just to dislike this game.

 

[Mexi]

The time will come when this thing will be the messiah aborted by the mass of heretics who chose to embrace the ultimate decline that was everything else that is being accepted today as crpg.

What the fuck did you just say? Are you proud of what you just wrote here?

 

[Nerevar]

Really not a reach to dislike this game. Many BG fans just saw the images showing the negatives of the game and never played it at all and then some like me tried to play it and came to the same conclusion that people who didn't play it at all had.

It just is not worth the investment of time for the poor experience you get playing the game. That is excluding the SJWism which put many more people off.

 

[Lacrymas]

Delterius, you are still missing the point and still cutting my thought up and understanding nothing. The title is INCIDENTAL, you get it POST-FACTUM. You are henceforth KNOWN AS THE HERO BECAUSE OF YOUR ACTIONS. No matter what you do that will be true, so it doesn't matter what happens IN REGARDS TO THAT TITLE. People can refer to you as such in the meantime. It's fine for you to find nothing because it's an INTERQUEL and surprise, surprise you don't have to be successful in every endeavor you do. Structure it like TotSC, many dungeon crawls trying to find the location of the temple/library. It doesn't need to be a temple/library, it could be a person (it can still be Caelar, but the framing should be totally different), a text or whatever. This is not my "preferred screenwriting" it's the most obvious and logical thing to do and MUST BE done like this, otherwise it's pointless and not part of the story. And it ISN'T, Caelar's crusade doesn't matter to anyone.

 

[Delterius]

you are still missing the point and still cutting my thought up and understanding nothing. because you're blind. how dare you say you're not blind. what do you see when you're not blind? blindness. darkness. blackness. black darkness! unworthy peasant.

For ten years now the plot hook to Baldur's Gate 2 has been that you became a champion of Baldur's Gate, that for a while you acted in accordance to such a title and that you had to leave the city due to 'dark circumstances'. Ten. Years.

But Lacrymas doesn't care about that. He preferred that the story was different. Fair enough. Nobody liked it when BG2 assumed a 'canon' party or that you cared for Imoen. I myself felt that following Khalid and Jaheira to Nashkel wasn't a very good plot hook. Too incidental, though there's strenght in that sort of thing as well. However, one thing is pining for better C&C and the other is being a contrarian little shit. Worse, you come here and pretend that The True and Logical story of how Things Must Be® is a frankly shitty idea that you happen to be in love with.

And yet Siege of Dragonspear is a story that mimicks the first game beat by beat. It follows a logical continuity with the saga it belongs to. It just happened that you, just like you did with Pillars, didn't even pay any attention to the shitty story you're trying to criticize.

You've got an unknown enemy who sends assassins at you and your loved ones. This causes you to investigate them. There's also a greater conspiracy going on around you, which is a parallel between the Iron Throne and the Crusade. The only major difference is that the 'mysterious warrior' the other side of the board is herself being used, as opposed to Sarevok who used the Iron Throne to try and attain divinity.

Yet you call one game filled with 'random ideas' while no doubt accepting the other.

Because hey, I really want to spend 20 hours fucking around in the Sword Coast looking for the 'Library and or Cleric of Bhaal we don't really know yet' just so that, in the end, I learn nothing new about anything or anyone.

Its cute really. You like throwing terms like 'Occam's Razor' around yet all you want is the most obvious story possible that won't actually do anything since its just a big foreshadow for Baldur's Gate 2.

Hell, your storytelling is so obvious and boring you want Caelar to become a Kaelyn the Dove / Lacrymas' avatar expy.

Get out of here with your masturbatory cliffhangers.

Structure it like TotSC, many dungeon crawls trying to find the location of the temple/library. It doesn't need to be a temple/library, it could be a person (it can still be Caelar, but the framing should be totally different), a text or whatever.

TotSC isn't a standalone campaign.

The game is already structured as dungeon crawls in an attempt to investigate your Bhaal heritage. You explore dwarven ruins, the Temple of Bhaal and a fort under siege while chasing one of your possible siblings.

I already explained why focusing entirely on the Bhaal heritage wouldn't work because that's BG2/ToB's role in the narrative. It wouldn't be, as you like to crow, logical to go through your discovery of the Bhaal Heritage again in BG2 if 'Project Dragonspear' already played those notes. And it wouldn't be a very interesting story if the game didn't innovate at all in that same department and simply ended in a cliffhanger.

It needs to be its own story. Like Baldur's Gate 1, Dragonspear couldn't be just about investigating the armored black man directly. You need more stuff going on. The Iron Throne conspiracy. The war with Amn.

I'm not saying that the story needs to be about the 'Siege of Dragonspear'. But it can't just be about chasing a MacGuffin of Bhaal while you learn nothing and is finally captured by Shadow Thieves. If the expansion was released as such back in 2001 people would hate it for the shitty cliffhanger that it is.

it's the most obvious and logical thing to do and MUST BE done like this

I love obvious narratives that lead nowhere. Predictability leads to great storytelling. Cliffhangers are awesome. 11/10.

And it ISN'T, Caelar's crusade doesn't matter to anyone.

Once more you don't like paying attention to the stories you read.

Caelar's crusade is a red herring, a means to an end. Just like the Iron Throne's conspiracy to take over Baldur's Gate. The real purpose of the antagonist behind the curtain was to instigate war with Amn and reach divinity // use your divine blood to re-open the Hellgate. Your character gets played by the devils and Irenicus but c'est la vie.

It's funny how much some of you reach just to dislike this game.

Hell, I don't even think SoD's story is good. I'm just impressed by some random forumer's attempt to make it even worse.

 

[Lacrymas]

Why do you think it's going to be obvious or boring? Are random ideas like Caelar's crusade better? (obviously not, rhetorical question). It has to be BOTH logical and engaging/interesting, what a novel concept The sequence between events have to follow some kind of causal effect. The specific adventuring through the Sword Coast you do in BG1 and the ending of it doesn't lead into being in an army following Caelar around. If you somehow spin it and say that the crusade is incidental and it doesn't really matter to the story, then fine, but it's not true. SoD is obviously written to revolve around the crusade, otherwise we wouldn't be so directly opposed to it (to the point of going "Ha, got you! You can't join Caelar because reasons!"). IF the crusade was a side thing you can choose to participate in, then great, more power to you, but it's not.

 

[Delterius]

Why do you think it's going to be obvious or boring?

My God, Lacrymas. One thing is to keep missing plot points about the games you're discussing but my posts are up there.

Lacrymas: hey, let's have the player investigate Bhaal and his divine heritage.

Cool, but make sure this is just a build up to Baldur's Gate 2 and Throne of Bhaal ok? This isn't the final adventure yet.

Lacrymas: don't worry, nothing is actually going to happen. Once you reach the library/temple of Bhaal you get taken down by the Shadow Thieves.

Doesn't that make the entire story just a shitty cliffhanger?

Lacrymas: maybe but its also the Logical and True thing that MUST HAPPEN. Because razors!

Your game would be like Irenicus in Dragonspear. A walking lampshade that only does something interesting in the last 15 seconds.

The sequence between events have to follow some kind of causal effect.

Bhaalspawn Assassins try to kill you.

You investigate them.

Kinda like in Baldur's Gate.

It has to be BOTH logical and engaging/interesting, what a novel concept

Its almost like Baldur's Gate and Dragonspear have parallels between them or something.

The specific adventuring through the Sword Coast you do in BG1 and the ending of it doesn't lead into being in an army following Caelar around.

Yes it did. You see, their assassins tried to kill you and yours. Like the Iron Throne bounty to 'all of evil persuasion'.

If you somehow spin it and say that the crusade is incidental and it doesn't really matter to the story

I'm not spinning anything you exceptional person. Its a red herring like the Iron Throne.

SoD is obviously written to revolve around the crusade

Like Baldur's Gate is written to revolve around the iron shortage and the Iron Throne?

otherwise we wouldn't be so directly opposed to it

I tend to dislike people who try to kill me in my sleep. What about you?

(to the point of going "Ha, got you! You can't join Caelar because reasons!")

Yes, I'm also impressed how you've managed to take a game with terrible writing and try to make its story even worse. You have an entire career about doing that.

IF the crusade was a side thing you can choose to participate in, then great, more power to you, but it's not.

Campaigns need their own identity. Your premise would have worked if this were 2001 and 'Project Dragonspear' was about to be developed. It isn't. The saga is already made. Tie in stories follow those ideas set up 10 years ago. That your own premise would end up in a cliffhanger that doesn't go anywhere shows its limited potential.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's always going to end in a cliffhanger because the mysterious assailants have to happen, like it did in SoD. I have no idea why you keep banging on about that, yes, it's going to end in a cliffhanger like it's supposed to. Have I mentioned the assassins anywhere? You keep banging on about those, too. Those don't lead to you joining an army to oppose Caelar. You can start your own investigation without it, not to mention that the crusade is not a thing that has to happen, you are confusing what Beamdog wrote with what's supposed to happen. You are always going to be known as the Hero of Baldur's Gate because that title is given to you when you kill Sarevok, so that piece of the puzzle is already done before you even start writing. Who cares if you don't achieve anything in an interquel? You are trying to and that's what matters, but Irenicus stops you.

 

[Delterius]

It's always going to end in a cliffhanger because the mysterious assailants have to happen. I have no idea why you keep banging on about that, yes, it's going to end in a cliffhanger like it's supposed to.

Oh okay, you need a quest arrow to show you around.

Its not just your ending which is a cliffhanger. >>>>>>Your entire story is a cliffhanger. <<<<<<<

Lacrymas: hey, let's have the player investigate Bhaal and his divine heritage.

Cool, but > make sure this is just a build up to Baldur's Gate 2 and Throne of Bhaal ok? < This isn't the final adventure yet.

Lacrymas: don't worry, nothing is actually going to happen. > Once you reach the library/temple of Bhaal you get taken down by the Shadow Thieves. <

Doesn't that make the > entire story < just a shitty cliffhanger?

Lacrymas: maybe but its also the Logical and True thing that MUST HAPPEN. Because razors!

At least in Dragonspear I killed some demon lord and closed a portal. In your story I'd have fucked around doing shit until Irenicus finally decides to spring his trap. No resolution. All cliffhanging.

But at least Lacrymas' avatar gets a cameo.

Have I mentioned the assassins anywhere? You keep banging on about those, too.

You keep saying there's no logical transition to anything. There is. You just wish it wasn't there. Or maybe you need giant red arrows telling you what dialogues to actually read.

Those don't lead to you joining an army to oppose Caelar.

In this story they happened to. Just like the assassins happened to be one of the reasons why you investigate the iron shortage in Baldur's Gate.

You wish the premise was different. Fair enough. Don't pretend there's anything more to it than that.

You can start your own investigation without it.

Yeah? And where would you go to investigate the approaching warlady's army? Fucking Waterdeep?

Don't you think its massively convenient to just follow the friendly army that is going to confront the person trying to kill you? Like its, you know, logical to do so?

You are always going to be known as the Hero of Baldur's Gate because that title is given to you when you kill Sarevok, so that piece of the puzzle is already done before you even start writing.

This is so irrelevant it hurts.

Its about you, being the hero of Baldur's Gate, receiving a request from the Dukes - a parallel from Gorion's letter telling you to follow Khalid and Jaheira. You then do your adventuring thing around the coalition army's campaign, investigating a potential Bhaalspawn - parallel to the black armoured man - who sent assassins after you and yours - the exact same thing that happened in the first game.

Everything you say applies to every part of the saga. Why don't my character do this instead of that? Why can't I leave the campaign map? Well because this is Baldur's Gate. A mediocre story with good combat that never had the pretense of giving you any choice in the narrative. Shit happens to you and you react to it. Assassins try to kill you and you investigate them. Evil wizard kidnaps your childhood friend that you killed back in the coast way and you have to give a shit about her. If you want to play a completely different story that doesn't go anywhere its called uninstall.exe

Who cares if you don't achieve anything in an interquel?

Who cares if there's nothing to the story? The person who bought it perhaps?

 

[Lacrymas]

I've been trying to explain that the hero thing is irrelevant since the beginning! You keep bringing it up! The PREMISE of my idea, going around trying to find Bhaal's temple (or whatever you happen to find breadcrumbs to in the Undercity) is not the STORY, no idea where you got that impression from. Shit CAN HAPPEN in the middle! You might achieve something, you might not, it depends on how the events will unfold. Like I initially said, SoD's story makes sense as a self-contained entity, but it's not, it's in the middle of something else. The sudden change from adventuring to going around with an army is jarring, pointless and, in the end, irrelevant because there is no continuity from that in BG2. It's so jarring and irrelevant that you still keep going around adventuring for no reason! Even Beamdog knew that it's something completely different than both games and it wouldn't work at all if they didn't give you free reign anyway. So don't bring the army with you. Write a different story, or write the same story from a different perspective. Yes, I want a different story, this one has warts all over it.

 

[Delterius]

Wow, you really need a Quest Arrow, don't you?

I've been trying to explain that the hero thing is irrelevant since the beginning!

For ten years now the plot hook to Baldur's Gate 2 has been that you became a champion of Baldur's Gate, that for a while you acted
in accordance to such a title and that you had to leave the city due to 'dark circumstances'. Ten. Years.

Its not irrelevant you idiot.

Shit CAN HAPPEN in the middle!

Like maybe a premise that has actual potential for a story?

Because as we've already estabilished:

Lacrymas: hey, let's have the player investigate Bhaal and his divine heritage.

Cool, but > make sure this is just a build up to Baldur's Gate 2 and Throne of Bhaal ok? < This isn't the final adventure yet.

Lacrymas: don't worry, nothing is actually going to happen. > Once you reach the library/temple of Bhaal you get taken down by the Shadow Thieves. <

Doesn't that make the > entire story < just a shitty cliffhanger?

Lacrymas: maybe but its also the Logical and True thing that MUST HAPPEN. Because razors!

Your premise can't really go anywhere.

Bhaal's heritage is best left as part of a greater story. Like it is in Baldur's Gate. Like it is in Shadows of Amn.

Like it already is in Siege of Dragonspear.

Essentially you want to cut a novels content by 2 thirds and stretch the remaining all to build up towards a cliffhanger.

How can you possibly think this is a good idea?

You might achieve something, you might not, it depends on how the events will unfold.

Who cares if the story goes anywhere as long as it Makes Sense®?

Like I initially said, SoD's story makes sense as a self-contained entity

Touchdown. The Goalposts have been moved.

You said that the story follows no logical continuation from the plot of BG1. That, of course, is exceptionally stupid because it follows beat by beat the introduction of BG2. Since not even someone as obtuse as you can defend that position forever now you think that the story makes sense on its own, but something better should happen instead.

The sudden change from adventuring to going around with an army is jarring

Again, don't be retarded. Don't pretend this is somehow a war novel because it isn't. This game is 95% dungeon crawling. Dungeon. Crawling

The only jarring thing here is the magical imaginary world of Lacrymas where nobody cares if stories don't go anywhere.

It's so jarring and irrelevant that you still keep going around adventuring for no reason!

What.

What.

First its jarring that you go from adventuring to following an army, now its jarring that you serve such army as an adventurer?

What the hell is wrong with your head.

Even Beamdog knew that it's something completely different than both games and it wouldn't work at all if they didn't give you free reign anyway.

No Baldur's Gate gives you free reign. They just give you more side content or not.

Yes, I want a different story, this one has warts all over it.

And its amazing, truly amazing, that you've managed to actually make it worse. Self insert Kaelyn the Lacrymas, cliffhanging with no resolution, premises that can't go anywhere, foreshadowing for its own sake, logical and predictable storytelling that everyone sees from a mile away.

Your story has it all. 10/10.

 

[Lacrymas]

You assume it's going to go nowhere because you have no imagination, duh. That's all I can say. The hero thing is irrelevant because you are already the hero, there's no need for a bridge to know how you became one, you are the idiot for not getting that for the 10th time. And I've been saying it makes sense as a self-contained entity since the start, don't think you are clever for "convincing me" of it.

...the writing is terrible (ironically enough, the main story, as a self-contained entity, makes more sense than PoE's, do with that as you will)....

 

[Delterius]

Want to prove me wrong? Want to show me the Full Power of the Imagination of a guy who believes that stories need to be logical, predictable, boring and that they don't really need to go anywhere because, hey, who cares if all you accomplish is chase a cliffhanger through 20 hours of fucking around?

Come up with an interesting and engaging story that is entirely about investigating your divine heritage but don't actually do anything with it.

Go on, I'm waiting.

 

[Lacrymas]

You assumed predictability and boredom while I've only said logical, that's your problem. I'll see what I can come up with for a story.

 

[Delterius]

You assumed predictability and boredom while I've only said logical, that's your problem. I'll see what I can come up with for a story.

Why that's all you've ever given us.

Don't forget it can't actually do anything with its own premise and that nothing that isn't investigating Bhaal and Bhaalspawn can be more than 15 minutes worth of sidecontent.

No Iron Throne, no Shadow Thieves and no adventures that don't build up to that Library of Bhaal you never get to actually see.

Don't forget about Kaelyn the Lacrymas either.

Oh and don't forget that you have to follow BG2's intro. Being the Hero of Baldur's Gate is a major plot point and so are the dark circumstances that force you out of the city. We wouldn't want to write SoD tier incompetent fanfiction now, would we?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

FFS get a room you two.

 

[Delterius]

People are debating the thread's topic? Madness.

 

[octavius]

If this was a movie you two would be kissing by now.