Baldur's Gate 1/2 gameplay is total shit.

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Most of cRPGs need loot as a replacement of good gameplay.

 

[314159]

I care.

Honestly, a good game in a banal shit boring setting will usually see me quitting soon after I started playing, whereas a stimulating world, even presented in a flawed game, will hold my interest much longer.

This.

Form over function is faggotry, bros.

 

[CrimHead]

But then the gameplay of arcanum kinda sucked, didn't it?


Furthermore, the Wizardries are bad, because the setting was rather nonsensical, right? Right?!

It makes sense that Draq would like the setting in Wizardry. He is, after all, an elite individual.

 

[Serus]

Forgetten Realms make as little sense as Wizardry series* in terms of consistency and logic (= doesnt make any at all). Perhaps even less.
The main difference is that banal quasi-medieval fantasy with elves and dwarves was made and remade in CRPGs litterally hundreds of times. In much more interesting ways than Baldur games (and Forgotten Realms in general) too.
Cheesy fantasy/science-fiction mix setting is obviously not unique to Wizardry but is less overused. What is more important Wizardry (7 and 8) has at least some original thought put by authors in it. I cant say the same thing about BG games.

If someone likes to play or read or watch exactly same things over and over again - its ok but i strongly suggest watching TV soap operas instead.

People ASKING on Codex what is wrong with Forgotten Realms setting are just.... i dont know... sorry i have to say it - "decline" ?


*Parts 7 and 8, i have only played part 6 for a short time and nothing earlier but im guessing people think mostly about the last 2 parts.




The question of gameplay and game mechanics is different. Again BG 1 does not shine in these areas. The mentioned lack of options for characters except mages, repetitive encounters, etc... This is for combat. Exploration aspect is not much better beceause you explore a world that lacks any orginality - you saw it all countless of times already. There is nothing more to do except comat and exploration. No interesting quests and another banal fantasy story to follow.
BG 2 is almost as bad - except more interesting options in party development and more varied/well designed encounters keeping me interested througout the game. Can't say it about BG 1.

IMO the biggest quality of BG1 is the already mentioned "low-level" focus. No more uber spells and uber demons killed by hundreds is a good thing but not enough to make the game interesting for me to finish it.

Is BG1 gameplay shit - perhaps. BG2 gameplay - certainly not. Are there many CRPGs with better gameplay MADE IN THE LAST ~15 YEARS ? Sadly only a few.
The fact is - not everyone is able to enjoy CRPGs from the 80s - i can't, not because of graphics but more often because of the interfaces. Early 90s (Wizardry 7, BAK) are the oldest things i really like. In such cases the choice is limited and Baldurs look as interesting games to play - simply because the lack of competition.

 

[DraQ]

But then the gameplay of arcanum kinda sucked, didn't it?

So did the gameplay in Torment.

Furthermore, the Wizardries are bad, because the setting was rather nonsensical, right? Right?!

Wizardries, at least Wiz8 made up for this deficiency with their other, extremely strong aspects.

I don't play Wizardry for it's setting - neither do I play Diablo or Unreal Tournament for the setting.
Still, a strong setting helps, and if game lacks other saving graces can still not only salvage it, but even elevate it to a position among the great classics.

I care.

Honestly, a good game in a banal shit boring setting will usually see me quitting soon after I started playing, whereas a stimulating world, even presented in a flawed game, will hold my interest much longer.

This.

Form over function is faggotry, bros.

If the main function of a cRPG is popping kobolds over and over again, rather than putting you in the world it creates, then RPG fans are the saddest, most retarded and most hilariously pretentious bunch dumbfucks that has ever roamed the Earth.

 

[314159]

If the main function of a cRPG is popping kobolds over and over again, rather than putting you in the world it creates, then RPG fans are the saddest, most retarded and most hilariously pretentious bunch dumbfucks that has ever roamed the Earth.

Come on, Codexians are good for what they are
Besides, the main function of a cRPG is munchkinism.

 

[Radisshu]

But then the gameplay of arcanum kinda sucked, didn't it?

So did the gameplay in Torment.

Furthermore, the Wizardries are bad, because the setting was rather nonsensical, right? Right?!

Wizardries, at least Wiz8 made up for this deficiency with their other, extremely strong aspects.

I don't play Wizardry for it's setting - neither do I play Diablo or Unreal Tournament for the setting.
Still, a strong setting helps, and if game lacks other saving graces can still not only salvage it, but even elevate it to a position among the great classics.

I care.

Honestly, a good game in a banal shit boring setting will usually see me quitting soon after I started playing, whereas a stimulating world, even presented in a flawed game, will hold my interest much longer.

This.

Form over function is faggotry, bros.

If the main function of a cRPG is popping kobolds over and over again, rather than putting you in the world it creates, then RPG fans are the saddest, most retarded and most hilariously pretentious bunch dumbfucks that has ever roamed the Earth.

Uh,

so you're saying "well-functioning RPG in plain setting" is the same as "mindlessly grinding kobolds", while "badly functioning RPG in awesome setting" is "being put in an interesting world which your character can interact with"?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Is BG1 gameplay shit - perhaps. BG2 gameplay - certainly not. Are there many CRPGs with better gameplay MADE IN THE LAST ~15 YEARS ? Sadly only a few.

It's because cRPGs in general tend to have shit gameplay. Fallout gave some hope with interesting exploration and fun stuff like aimed shots, but it was badly affected by losing GURPS licence.
Then Fallout series died and all was lost.

If the main function of a cRPG is popping kobolds over and over again, rather than putting you in the world it creates, then RPG fans are the saddest, most retarded and most hilariously pretentious bunch dumbfucks that has ever roamed the Earth.

Especially that wargames offer much better combat.

 

[FeelTheRads]

but it was badly affected by losing GURPS licence.

Jeez, man, are you Sorrow from NMA? Just like his, 90% of your posts are about the horrible pain of losing GURPS in Fallout.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

What horrible pain? Losing GURPS wouldn't be any problem if authors of SPECIAL would have decided what kind of a combat system they want.

Also, word "GURPS" appears only in 34 of my posts, which is far from 90%.

 

[aleph]

People ASKING on Codex what is wrong with Forgotten Realms setting are just.... i dont know... sorry i have to say it - "decline" ?

Could you please not say Forgotten Realms when it is apparent you are speaking only about the Sword Coast and its surroundings.

(Places like Chult, the great Glacier or Rashemen are far less gneric fantasy then the Sword Coast)

 

[PorkaMorka]

Forgotten Realms is still better than 95% of the homebrew settings designed by developers of computer/console RPGs.

Possibly that 95% should be 99%.

 

[Turjan]

Sure, the Forgotten Realms don't make much sense as a setting. I'm not very much a fan of the upper parts of the Nashkell mines, either. Nevertheless, the game has so many interesting parts and encounters that it's easy to forget about that. I especially like the city. The game changes completely from then on. And Durlag's Tower is in a class by itself.

I really like BG. It's no BG2, but its sandbox aspects have its own charm.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Forgotten Realms is still better than 95% of the homebrew settings designed by developers of computer/console RPGs.

Possibly that 95% should be 99%.

I don't really know much about the setting. I think the last time I really took any notice of it was in the early 90's or so. However, if it wasn't better than many 'home brew' settings, after all the people that have worked on it, not to mention it being a commercial enterprise, it would be pretty bloody surprising wouldn't it?

You could even say it would be a complete flop otherwise, couldn't you?

"Hey man, I bet my Yamaha 500 could beat your Billy Cart in a race!"

The saddest fact is that it doesn't beat 100% of home brew settings. Or funniest, depending on your viewpoint. Myself? I find it funny.

 

[Serious_Business]

People ASKING on Codex what is wrong with Forgotten Realms setting are just.... i dont know... sorry i have to say it - "decline" ?

Could you please not say Forgotten Realms when it is apparent you are speaking only about the Sword Coast and its surroundings.

(Places like Chult, the great Glacier or Rashemen are far less gneric fantasy then the Sword Coast)

This is just like that time Volo said darkspawn weren't orcs

 

[Xor]

I don't know much about Forgotten Realms except that there are a bunch of shitty fantasy novels in that setting and retards read them and try to use shit in them as justification for mechanics in D&D games.

 

[Varn]

Fighter and thief gameplay is pretty boring but fighter/mage gameplay is quite fun in the diablo 2 sense of starting out shithouse and eventually becoming an elite killing machine.

The exploration gameplay - if you can call it that - is fun in both games however as they are pretty deep in this respect and feature a number of secrets and odd encounters that might never be found even in multiple play-throughs.

 

[Tails]

So did the gameplay in Torment.

Gameplay would be much better if the Infinity from Torment times had a proper Path Search Nodes implemented. This is what mainly killed it for me at least.

Also, word "GURPS" appears only in 34 of my posts, which is far from 90%.

From some time, you post the same thing in almost every Fallout 1 related topic.

 

[aleph]

People ASKING on Codex what is wrong with Forgotten Realms setting are just.... i dont know... sorry i have to say it - "decline" ?

Could you please not say Forgotten Realms when it is apparent you are speaking only about the Sword Coast and its surroundings.

(Places like Chult, the great Glacier or Rashemen are far less gneric fantasy then the Sword Coast)

This is just like that time Volo said darkspawn weren't orcs

Care to backup your well thought out post with some arguments?

 

[DraQ]

Oh, shit.

I forgot how shit Firewine was.

Shit. Pathfinding was shit. AI was dumb. Shit. Maze was pointless. Unrealistic. Shit. Dungeon crawl more like dung eon crawl. Shit. Boring. Shit. Narrow corridors. Shit. Lacked blob. Shit. Suicidal party members. BG is overrated. Shit. Shit. Respawning kobolds more like respawning hobos. Decline. Get out of here Bhaalspawn.

 

[Gosling]

Oh, shit.

I forgot how shit Firewine was.

Shit. Pathfinding was shit. AI was dumb. Shit. Maze was pointless. Unrealistic. Shit. Dungeon crawl more like dung eon crawl. Shit. Boring. Shit. Narrow corridors. Shit. Lacked blob. Shit. Suicidal party members. BG is overrated. Shit. Shit. Respawning kobolds more like respawning hobos. Decline. Get out of here Bhaalspawn.

By the way, why everyone hates on Firewine so much? It's really a small dungeon that can be explored without reloads in like ten minutes. Well, pathfinding works like shit, but it doesn't break the entire game experience, does it?
I can understand people being disillusioned with it after so much build-up the first time they play BG - after all it's getting constantly hyped in the in-game lore as some type of infinite super-spooky uber-dungeon. It's just not interesting enough.
But declaring it a gameplay nightmare? Wtf?

 

[CrimHead]

The dungeons aren't really BG1's strong point. The only really good and open one I can think of is Durlag's tower.

Firewine and the ice dungeon you get to from Ulgoth's beard are fucking ridiculous stupid ass dungeons and pretty much exemplify what went wrong with the dungeon design in that game.

 

[Xor]

Dungeon design in BG2 is much better for the most part. Also, turn off party AI or they'll just kill themselves.

 

[mister_matt]

Also, turn off party AI or they'll just kill themselves.

Ugh. This. My party mostly just annoyed the shit out of me the first time I played BG2. I'm glad they added this as an option into the game.

 

[aleph]

... turn off party AI or they'll just kill themselves.

Are there still people who play BG and don't know this basic wisdom?

I forgot how shit Firewine was.

The kobolds there raped your party pretty hard and now you can't get over it, right?