Baldur's Gate 1/2 gameplay is total shit.

[Emotional Vampire]

They're It's fucking mines BG1. SORRY

Repaired.

Well I guess when you pretend you're a dragon with three cocks you just can't take normal fantasy for an answer.

The question is, should your opinion be considered at all?

 

[DraQ]

Well I guess when you pretend you're a dragon with three cocks you just can't take normal banal, shit, boring fantasy for an answer.

Fixed. Also, just because the codex is into this whole MHD thing, doesn't mean I am.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

You know you're talking to a gentleman when he calls fantasy boring.

 

[JarlFrank]

You know you're talking to a gentleman when he calls fantasy boring.

Depends on the kind of fantasy.

Morrowind and PST = non-boring fantasy. Heck, even LotR is non-boring fantasy.
BG1 just screams "generic pen and paper adventure that everyone has played at least once!" at you. It's just like all those cheap fantasy novels out there. Generic and without surprises.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

You don't even realize how stupid what you say sounds, do you? Oh noes, boring magic, nonhumans, dragons and ancient ruins and prophecies and shit. How typical.

It's pretty funny, in the "what am I going to do with you" way.

Kind of like playing an FPS and being all like MEH, WAR AGAIN, SO LAME, BANAL SHIT BORING

 

[DraQ]

You don't even realize how stupid what you say sounds, do you? Oh noes, boring magic, nonhumans, dragons and ancient ruins and prophecies and shit. How typical.

It's pretty funny, in the "what am I going to do with you" way.

Kind of like playing an FPS and being all like MEH, WAR AGAIN, SO LAME, BANAL SHIT BORING

 

[Serious_Business]

 

[Liberal]

BG1 just screams "generic pen and paper adventure that everyone has played at least once!" at you.

Actually, no. There's nothing unique about BG1 setting, not to mention the story, but there's an unmistakable antiqued feel to it regardless. Like a glass of century-old wine - not the same as that steaming boiling cocktail monstrosity made of Madonna's menstrual blood they serve at your local bar, but there's nothing quite like that glass regardless.

BG2 on the other hand has completely no uniqueness = more of the same + eye candy.

 

[BirdsCanFly]

Like a glass of century-old wine - not the same as that steaming boiling cocktail monstrosity made of Madonna's menstrual blood they serve at your local bar, but there's nothing quite like that glass regardless.

Ewwww... ick

 

[Humanophage]

BG1 just screams "generic pen and paper adventure that everyone has played at least once!" at you. It's just like all those cheap fantasy novels out there. Generic and without surprises.

I don't think there's anything boring about standard fantasy settings, particularly those that are as classical and standard as possible, such as Forgotten Realms. What is boring are uninventive deviations from the norm, such as altering some aspects of the standard races in an extremely uninspired manner. To say that standard fantasy is boring is like saying that a RL setting without fantastic elements would be boring because there won't be any setting-related surprises pulled out of the blue.

One of the interesting advantages of non-deviant fantasy settings is that they allow the usage of background knowledge. A primitive example would be not to inform the player of the weaknesses of a monster and let him derive satisfaction from knowing how to defeat it from an outside source (e.g., Monster Compendiums, mythology, other games, etc.) I'm quite certain that standard fantasy-specific realities could be used this way to compose complex quests. At the very least, various allusions could be employed to enhance the atmosphere and create a sense of the vastness of the world without actually showing it in its entirety.

Theoretically, a familiar setting would allow the player to switch his attention from the setting to the characters and situations, but that doesn't seem to work most of the time.

P.S. I would actually argue that BG1 is quite unique in the sense that it deals with low-level adventures. Even towards the end of the game the party is relatively weak and unassuming. I am quite sick of all those uber-spells, epic monsters, heaven and hell, et al. I wish there were more fantasy games that would let the player mingle with the peasants and townsfolk in the role of ordinary adventurers.

 

[bhlaab]

Kind of like playing an FPS and being all like MEH, WAR AGAIN, SO LAME, BANAL SHIT BORING

Yeah. Actually it's exactly like that.

Now I'd say that the nashkel mines were like the rpg version of a sewer level except Baldur's Gate actually has some fairly extensive sewer dungeons so

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Kind of like playing an FPS and being all like MEH, WAR AGAIN, SO LAME, BANAL SHIT BORING

Yeah. Actually it's exactly like that.

So you want dragons, magic and full plate mails but without the whole dragons, magic and full plate mail thing. Well, get back to me on how that turns out for you.

Sewers in Baldur's Gate were all cool because they were very open, very optional, and served an interesting gameplay purpose later in the game.

 

[bhlaab]

So you want dragons, magic and full plate mails but without the whole dragons, magic and full plate mail thing. Well, get back to me on how that turns out for you.

Yes I would prefer games with concepts I haven't seen a billion times before.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Reach for the sky!

 

[bhlaab]

"I've got an idea for a new game. Okay, first we take Lord of the Rings... but this time we call the Dwarves Elves and we call the Elves Dwarves"

"Too risky, Dan. Too risky."

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Isn't this basically what YOU want? Catpeople instead of elves and sentient cockroaches instead of dwarves?

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

P.S. I would actually argue that BG1 is quite unique in the sense that it deals with low-level adventures. Even towards the end of the game the party is relatively weak and unassuming. I am quite sick of all those uber-spells, epic monsters, heaven and hell, et al. I wish there were more fantasy games that would let the player mingle with the peasants and townsfolk in the role of ordinary adventurers.

I agree here. Also, AD&D tends to break down on higher levels, because weapon damages advance much slower than HP (if at all) and Thac0 advances much faster than AC.

Play Oblivion (vanilla). It has all the bland you will ever want. This is the game that took blandness to the level of art, coincidentally making itself completely unfit for human consumption.

If it's completely unfit for human consumption, then it didn't take blandness to the level of art, but simply have done blandness wrong.

 

[bhlaab]

Isn't this basically what YOU want? Catpeople instead of elves and sentient cockroaches instead of dwarves?

Catpeople are a little bit overdone but Sentient Cockroaches sounds pretty cool. Simply having to come up with a history to justify their existence would make them instantly more interesting than just yanking another being out of the Big Ol' Book of Previously Established Fantasy Creatures

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Bullshit.

MoraN.

 

[Murk]

A purely flavour thing. As I've mentioned, the atmosphere and the FR setting is the only thing I've really enjoyed in BG. The rest is mediocre at the best and couldn't be improved without a substantial effort.

I've read the manual before playing BG and I was disappointed that all the stuff that was described in the world section wasn't there.

OH sure. Harkens back to the example in ToEE of the potter's house complete with crazy amounts of detailed pots and pottery related items all over the place... and all he had as 2 lines of dialog and no relevance to anything else.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

BG1 just screams "generic pen and paper adventure that everyone has played at least once!" at you.

Actually, no. There's nothing unique about BG1 setting, not to mention the story, but there's an unmistakable antiqued feel to it regardless. Like a glass of century-old wine - not the same as that steaming boiling cocktail monstrosity made of Madonna's menstrual blood they serve at your local bar, but there's nothing quite like that glass regardless.

BG2 on the other hand has completely no uniqueness = more of the same + eye candy.

'More of the same' isnt a bad thing until somethings been really milked. The Forgotten Realms is a rather large fantasy setting. Its at least 95% untouched and I'm just talking geography and little culture.

 

[DraQ]

BG1 just screams "generic pen and paper adventure that everyone has played at least once!" at you. It's just like all those cheap fantasy novels out there. Generic and without surprises.

I don't think there's anything boring about standard fantasy settings, particularly those that are as classical and standard as possible, such as Forgotten Realms. What is boring are uninventive deviations from the norm, such as altering some aspects of the standard races in an extremely uninspired manner. To say that standard fantasy is boring is like saying that a RL setting without fantastic elements would be boring because there won't be any setting-related surprises pulled out of the blue.

One of the interesting advantages of non-deviant fantasy settings is that they allow the usage of background knowledge. A primitive example would be not to inform the player of the weaknesses of a monster and let him derive satisfaction from knowing how to defeat it from an outside source (e.g., Monster Compendiums, mythology, other games, etc.) I'm quite certain that standard fantasy-specific realities could be used this way to compose complex quests. At the very least, various allusions could be employed to enhance the atmosphere and create a sense of the vastness of the world without actually showing it in its entirety.

Theoretically, a familiar setting would allow the player to switch his attention from the setting to the characters and situations, but that doesn't seem to work most of the time.

P.S. I would actually argue that BG1 is quite unique in the sense that it deals with low-level adventures. Even towards the end of the game the party is relatively weak and unassuming. I am quite sick of all those uber-spells, epic monsters, heaven and hell, et al. I wish there were more fantasy games that would let the player mingle with the peasants and townsfolk in the role of ordinary adventurers.

You, sire, are a decline incarnate.

I would, perhaps be somewhat more forthcoming, were it not for the fact that generic fantasy settings (best represented by nothing else but fucking Sword Coast) are horribly inconsistent and stupid (being basically a theme-park bowdlerized version of medieval Europe with powerful-yet-inconsequential magic/divine interventions) and an excuse for laziness. That I'm largely an SF fan, and as such am accustomed to good works exploring different settings, problems and consequences of stuff - generally focusing on consistent world creation and backstory, and find lack of thought and consistency going into those elements aggravating doesn't help, nor does the profound genericness and blandness of it all, so I'm afraid I can dismiss your lengthy tirade you obviously put great effort in with a wave of hand and "bah.".

So you want dragons, magic and full plate mails but without the whole dragons, magic and full plate mail thing. Well, get back to me on how that turns out for you.

Way to fail at strawman. Magic is just an element of worldbuilding, plates (there are plates, mail, even plated mail, but referring to plate as plate mail, is just asking for it) are just a result of tech level, as for dragons - I'm not really hypocritical enough to try and pretend they are not awesome, but those are merely building blocks that can either be arranged into beautiful architecture, kitschy eyesore or just dumped on the ground in a disordered heap - guess what two categories generic fantasy belongs to.

If it's completely unfit for human consumption, then it didn't take blandness to the level of art, but simply have done blandness wrong.

Aren't many artistic games/films/books notoriously, brain-wrenchingly hard to digest? If bland can be an art form (with which I disagree), then oblivion definitely qualifies.

 

[JarlFrank]

To clarify, I don't mind "generic" traditional fantasy if it's done right. I like Lord of the Rings because Tolkien actually developed a consistent world with deep lore. I like oldschool dungeon crawlers where you play a party of adventurers in search of an ancient powerful artifact and explore a dungeon full of danger and mystery.

BG1 is not traditional fantasy done right, though. There's neither deep consistent lore to explore, neither are there mysterious well-designed dungeons. Neither setting nor gameplay/area design are interesting enough to make you want to explore more of the gameworld. There's no sense of "great adventure awaits you!". It's just bland. Traditional fantasy can be done well if you put any effort into the setting and area-design. Baldur's Gate 1 is clearly not done well in that regard.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

BG1 (...) There's no sense of "great adventure awaits you!"

It's time to stop posting, kid.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

To clarify, I don't mind "generic" traditional fantasy if it's done right. I like Lord of the Rings because Tolkien actually developed a consistent world with deep lore. I like oldschool dungeon crawlers where you play a party of adventurers in search of an ancient powerful artifact and explore a dungeon full of danger and mystery.

BG1 is not traditional fantasy done right, though. There's neither deep consistent lore to explore, neither are there mysterious well-designed dungeons. Neither setting nor gameplay/area design are interesting enough to make you want to explore more of the gameworld. There's no sense of "great adventure awaits you!". It's just bland. Traditional fantasy can be done well if you put any effort into the setting and area-design. Baldur's Gate 1 is clearly not done well in that regard.

Whats wrong with the lore? I'm a FR freak and I gave it a strong pass. There have been some games that pissed on the FR setting like PoR 2, and the NWN OC. BG was suttle in inclusion of FR lore. A lot of what it did well is easy to miss if you dont know who Kazgaroth was or Entar Silvershield. Candelkeep was well done, and Baldur's Gate was a far better design than any Biowarian city. Compare it to Denerim lol.