Baldur's Gate 1/2 gameplay is total shit.

[Nickless]

I enjoyed playing Baldur's Gate 2 the first time around, but each successive playthrough grew more tedious for me. I want to get through the game faster than it takes, as all the filler combat wears me down.

 

[Murk]

I actually found playing as a mage pretty entertaining, at least for the first part of the game. I usually lose interest around the Gnoll Stronghold.

This doesn't make much sense - the Gnoll stronghold is an optional area that you can go to at any point of the game, there's no actual time reference in regards to when you should do that area, if at all.

Anyway - I find the games far too easy to remember the details of and so I usually skip all dialog and what-not and just focus on the encounters. In replays with a solo character things get interesting as you have to find new tactics to deal with situations that were before just "fighters up front, rest in back" -- however I'm finding that right now web+archery+fireball is far too easy of an insta-win combo, and when I get the boots of speed I'll pretty much be unstoppable. Already I can melee with anything that comes at me... and I'm barely 5/5/6 (f/m/t).

This is probably why playing ToEE was so much more fun than bg 2/bg 1. As regardless of you remembering the areas the combat system was more entertaining and the updated rules allowed for more interesting combinations, tactics, and shenanigans overall -- though it broke down once you got high enough and could just slaughter your way through.

I'm hoping my Icewind Dale play through will be more entertaining.

 

[Liberal]

This doesn't make much sense - the Gnoll stronghold is an optional area that you can go to at any point of the game, there's no actual time reference in regards to when you should do that area, if at all.

Obviously some time between arriving to Nashkel (or the town where Minsk resides), and before he gives up on asking to fulfill his quest, which is rather early into the game.

 

[Murk]

Assuming going to Nashkel early on and getting Minsc to join you is even part of your play through. The Gnoll stronghold isn't a required segment of the game and can be done exactly 5 minutes before chasing Sarevok into the underground city or within the first 30 minutes of game time.

 

[entertainer]

in before

 

[Lockkaliber]

I actually found playing as a mage pretty entertaining, at least for the first part of the game. I usually lose interest around the Gnoll Stronghold.

You say that like you actually have to go there.

edit: didn't read the rest of the thread.

 

[relootz]

BG1/2 are great games.

just saying.

 

[Liberal]

Assuming going to Nashkel early on and getting Minsc to join you is even part of your play through. The Gnoll stronghold isn't a required segment of the game and can be done exactly 5 minutes before chasing Sarevok into the underground city or within the first 30 minutes of game time.

Most people visit Nashkel after picking up Khalid and Jaheira at the Friendly Arm Inn, and join with Minsc/Edwin upon seeing him. After that there's a countdown, so it's best to do it before going into the mines, although you can still visit it later without Minsc or Edwin.
OK, it's very imprecise.
BtW, rescuing Dynaheir is one of the best parts of the game. Why can't RPG developers focus more on overcoming personal hazards rather than saving the n-th kingdom from utter distrukshun. :rant:

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

DA>BG2

 

[thesheeep]

I'm currently replaying the series with a druid avenger.
Turning into a sword spider and then casting holy might (or whatever the name of that spell) via ability makes me more capable of fighting than any fighter

Ahhh, great fun.

DA>BG2

You know what?
If the last chapter of DA wasn't the most boring thing since Pool Of Radiance (the "3d"-Version), if the levels and dungeons were as interesting as they are in BG, and if the classes & races were as varied and different to develop.... maybe

 

[Malakal]

I very much liked BG series but its true, it lacks skills for player use. Gameplay as warrior was boring as hell, click and watch enemy die (or not). On the other hand magic system is excellent and spells are very different with many many possibilities. If only the might side was a s good as the magic side...

 

[Shannow]

This is probably why playing ToEE was so much more fun than bg 2/bg 1.

No.

As regardless of you remembering the areas the combat system was more entertaining and the updated rules allowed for more interesting combinations, tactics, and shenanigans overall

Yes.
Sounds strange?
The thing is, ToEE is far too easy, the encounters are badly designed and as you pointed out, the challenge rating goes down instead of up as you progress through the game. That is less of an issue with the BGs, at least on the first playthrough(s). And if you throw in the various bugs and engine issues even BG1 is a better game overall (if not by a large margin) and BG2 is far superior than ToEE. Of course, it is a matter of preference, but ToEE (as every other Troika game) simply failed to motivate me. It doesn't get interesting story/quest-wise until you reach the Temple and by that time gameplay has become boring because of weak encounter design. Not to mention, that even that part is un-interesting if you made the mistake of taking a good party with a paladin...

-- though it broke down once you got high enough and could just slaughter your way through.

A problem in every non-linear and most linear games.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Of course, it is a matter of preference, but ToEE (as every other Troika game) simply failed to motivate me. It doesn't get interesting story/quest-wise until you reach the Temple and by that time gameplay has become boring because of weak encounter design. Not to mention, that even that part is un-interesting if you made the mistake of taking a good party with a paladin...

Yeah. I have the same problem with ToEE. It's superior when it comes to skills and presentation of combat but it simply doesn't give me any reason to play it.
The only part that I've found really interesting was the tutorial.
ToEE is probably the only cRPG that I've quit playing 10 minutes after starting the game. It happened many times.
Troika had a tendency to deliver games that feel a bit incomplete. There was stuff that was awesome and there was stuff that was very bad.

 

[Malakal]

Of course, it is a matter of preference, but ToEE (as every other Troika game) simply failed to motivate me. It doesn't get interesting story/quest-wise until you reach the Temple and by that time gameplay has become boring because of weak encounter design. Not to mention, that even that part is un-interesting if you made the mistake of taking a good party with a paladin...

Yeah. I have the same problem with ToEE. It's superior when it comes to skills and presentation of combat but it simply doesn't give me any reason to play it.
The only part that I've found really interesting was the tutorial.
ToEE is probably the only cRPG that I've quit playing 10 minutes after starting the game. It happened many times.
Troika had a tendency to deliver games that feel a bit incomplete. There was stuff that was awesome and there was stuff that was very bad.

This exactly.

I never, ever could keep playing after the second town. Once I made it to the tower but got bored anyway. How is that better than BG?

 

[spectre]

Same here, ToEE always felt like a fuckton of wasted potential. While I did appreciate the way it handled combat, sadly, no interesting encounters to be had to fully appreciate it.

Now, remaking some of the classic infinity engine games in ToEE oh my dog, it would be heavan.

 

[Dnny]

I never understood how could the same company do something as cool as Arcanum and then go and make a true piece of shit in the vein of ToEE. Yeah, its turn based engine is insanely great but the actual game sucks huge unicorn cocks.

It's kinda ironic considering the fact that Arcanum combat sucked a lot and ToEE combat engine is good. Arcanum with ToEE turn based engine would easily win the title of best RPG ever made.

 

[JarlFrank]

I have found BG1/2 combat very boring unless I play F/M/T.

Female/Male/Tranny? There were threesomes in BG2?

 

[Liberal]

Arcanum with ToEE turn based engine would easily win the title of best RPG ever made.

Someone should do this.

 

[Jasede]

I am going to get stoned for this, but ToEE while ToEE combat was nice and elaborate that game (blame the source adventure) had awful encounters, much less fun to fight than BG 1 or 2s. Not one battle was entertaining to me. Everything was bland, boring and took too long. Volourn calls it easy - I don't, I thought it was challenging, but it was more of a slog-kind of challenge where you simply soldier on endless encounter after encounter. I am playing Final Fantasy IV on the DS right now and I'll gladly take those boss fights and encounters (that can wipe you out in one turn and are delightfully taking heavy use of status effects/curing into account) over anything from ToEE. I'd prefer BG 1 and 2 a lot too.

ToEE... boring.

(This is the new shit.)

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

ToEE would be 1000% better if it would be about destroying Homlet (with a possible infiltration stage before the main battle). It would be a great Rape and Pillage Game.

 

[Liberal]

ToEE would be 1000% better if it would be about destroying Homlet (with a possible infiltration stage before the main battle). It would be a great Rape and Pillage Game.

Someone should do this.

 

[Jasede]

++

 

[racofer]

(")(º_º)('')

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Just saying.

It's not, man.

 

[Murk]

The thing is, ToEE is far too easy, the encounters are badly designed and as you pointed out, the challenge rating goes down instead of up as you progress through the game. That is less of an issue with the BGs, at least on the first playthrough(s). And if you throw in the various bugs and engine issues even BG1 is a better game overall (if not by a large margin) and BG2 is far superior than ToEE. Of course, it is a matter of preference, but ToEE (as every other Troika game) simply failed to motivate me. It doesn't get interesting story/quest-wise until you reach the Temple and by that time gameplay has become boring because of weak encounter design. Not to mention, that even that part is un-interesting if you made the mistake of taking a good party with a paladin...

The storyline of the game is mostly garbage but I did appreciate multiple reasons for your adventuring party to approach the Temple. The way you could actually do evil things and get rewarded for it and not in the form of "give me money" but as in actual more quests and allies and getting into the temple and all that. There was a lot to do, but the game itself was short and stayed at its base a dungeon-crawler, one that I enjoyed no less. There were still challenging fights - the problem is if you play through it once you already know what strategy to use against what enemy - I would compensate for this by playing gimped parties, taking weird classes that are not very well suited for the temple, or by using point-buy system instead of ubermensch rolling. It helps but if you beat the game once then you already know what to do... I think ToEE is the most fun until you clear the first level of the temple. Taking on the Hill Giant and the Moathouse is great fun because you're still weak but have enough tricks up your sleeve to put up an actual fight.

The IE games lack this - if you play a fighter/thief you can only back-stab or attack, now there's tactical variations with whirlwind attack, tripping enemies, hit and run tactics (enemies in heavy armor can't run as far as you can), readying actions, flanking, etc.

I know you can kite in the IE games as well but... that was more of a desperate/cheap use of the game's character speeds. running in circles for 5 minutes to kill a bear, haha, good fun

I personally have had much more fun with ToEE than either of the Baldur's Gates and as much fun with ToEE as the IWD games. But preference and all that, as you said.

A problem in every non-linear and most linear games.

No doubt - and a rather disappointing and big one. In the past it used to lead me to abandon games when I would get to the ending areas. I think Gothic 2 (with NotR) was one of the few games that kept me still on my toes in the end game.

edit: I read the other posts everyone made - it's weird, I too always have a hard time getting into the game at the beginning because of how surprisingly stifling Hommlett is and because of how the first few fights you're in are pretty much a 50/50 on who lives or dies. I guess I just remember there's good stuff afterward and was able to go through it.

as for the fun in playing a mage in baldur's gate... definitely in bg2 because that game was all about magic, but bg 1 isn't so much... you barely get a few spells per day that, if you come across a decent enough encounter, you'll pretty much blow entirely on that fight. I'm playing a solo f/m/t and so far I save my magic for actually difficult encounters and even then its still a simple web or hold person i cast.