Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 is Trash

[The Nameless One]

BG1, BG2, IWD1, IWD2, NWN, NWN2, DA:O, Pillars of Eternity, Deadfire, Tyranny, and Pathfinder: Kingmaker

You just literally quoted almost entire RTwP library of RPGs in a single sentence lmao. And like 3 studios made all of them as explicit spiritual successor to BG. There's a single series of TB games that have more games in them than the entire library of RTwP, like Dragon Quest or SMT. As i said, TB fans are persecution complex having weirdos.

I may have quoted the entire RTwP library of CRPGs in a single sentence, but you can't even name a single game without going into a different genre altogether. Name ONE (1) big western fantasy RPG. Even better, name ONE (1) big western fantasy RPG that adapts D&D.

BG3 takes many dumb liberties, but at least it tries to adapt D&D in a TB system as faithfully as a Belgian brain permits. That's something we hadn't seen in mainstream CRPGs in a long time.

D&D isn't really as special or outstanding as it used to be since a very long time, mainly because of the WotC treatment. If the wokeniks behind Cuckfinder knew how to get a setting right, they could've become a viable alternative, but there's little if any settings left to adapt into cRPGs.

What's so huge about adapting a TT setting into a cRPG anyway? Smells like some people want to make BG3 sound like everything it isn't, like being a true sequel to the classics and not a Divinity reskin.

That was the point from the start. Name recognition. The game has nothing to do with the Bhaalspawn Saga and all references to it were purely added to justify the name.

The story is extremely retarded the longer you think about it.

Worst offender is they could've done something that was either simultaneous/subsequent to the Bhaalspawn saga, but decided to keep sucking the 5E tit and play safe. Even while a mess on its own, the Illithid-coming-out-of-the-woodwork idea wasn't terrible until they decided to give it the "plot twist" meme by making it a surprise that the PC's ass was bondaged by king squid the perv into irresistible puppetry and no tadpole removal till the end because it's the end, a weak excuse for making the writing linear until you get to "pick your ending™" authorization.

If instead they didn't rely on AI to write an actual plot, they could've at least:
1) made the option from the get go to remove the tadpole to shove it up squidward's ass later, and thus have the PC find alternatives, like maybe getting Gale helping out with that instead of simping for Mystra, to lift what could be one of the most anti-climatic dialogues ever. (if magically adultering a damn tadpole is possible, then relying on other things magical to subdue the brainy is also possible)
2) provided an option for Viconia to help in the end, instead having to opt into the absurd black-and-white options of either replacing her with Shadowham or turning her over, especially when you took the fucking job of going through the Gauntlet of Shar and succeeding, regardless of Shadowham's alignment, something that held little if no reward beside loot.
3) provide with questlines that aid the city without the being forced to use companions you don't want (Ie. Wyll's to save Ravengard), especially since getting gortash's ass handed to him should create a bit of a stir in town, something that's not reflected at all when going through the streets - and the game expects you to just gear up and blaze against Bhaal's she-bitch.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

They need to do a remake.

 

[Old Hans]

It is a better game than the original Black Isle/Bioware rtwp games for instance. By far. Better combat, better C&C and reactivity.

baldur's gate 1 & 2 worked even if it was simpler in terms of C&C. it had a beginning, middle and end. BG3 story is all over the place with no clear main character.

 

[Butter]

We need a Beamdog version for the Nintendo Switch ASAP.

 

[Barbarian]

Ironically you barely even fight illithids in this game.

Only the lone mindflayer in the second Ketheric boss fight and then the final fight full of illithids(which is optional). There is the optional colony fight and a couple of lone optional encounters in the city.

They couldn't even get this one right. I imagined from all the peddling they would be a major foe in the game... but not really.

 

[Barbarian]

It is a better game than the original Black Isle/Bioware rtwp games for instance. By far. Better combat, better C&C and reactivity.

baldur's gate 1 & 2 worked even if it was simpler in terms of C&C. it had a beginning, middle and end. BG3 story is all over the place with no clear main character.

Gameplay was much worse. And I don't mean that because of tech of the period or anything(there were good TB games back then after all).

Rtwp really sucks. Also in terms of builds or features.

The original series had barely any choice or player agency compared to this. Characters and quests didn't even recognize your race or class save for few occasions.

 

[Old Hans]

It is a better game than the original Black Isle/Bioware rtwp games for instance. By far. Better combat, better C&C and reactivity.

baldur's gate 1 & 2 worked even if it was simpler in terms of C&C. it had a beginning, middle and end. BG3 story is all over the place with no clear main character.

Gameplay was much worse. And I don't mean that because of tech of the period or anything(there were good TB games back then after all).

Rtwp really sucks. Also in terms of builds or features.

The original series had barely any choice or player agency compared to this. Characters and quests didn't even recognize your race or class save for few occasions.

the 90's were all about trying new things, it was totally X_TREME. late 90's everyone was tired of turn based games. There was even a PBS documentary about how everyone was sick of turn based role playing games

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

That was the point from the start. Name recognition. The game has nothing to do with the Bhaalspawn Saga and all references to it were purely added to justify the name.

The story is extremely retarded the longer you think about it.

Baldur's Gate 3 awkwardly combines an idiotic plot about the 'Dead Three' returning via a ridiculously circuitous plan with an even more idiotic plot about illithids and an Elder Brain becoming a NETHER BRAIN!!! Plus something about devils and assorted other poorly-conceived items that don't cohere. The 'Dark Urge' origin for the customizable player-character has more connections to Bhaal and apparently was originally intended to be mandatory, but Larian changed direction during development to make this one of several origins, with the option to select none of these.

 

[Butter]

Most of the best-selling RPGs have bad stories (and bad gameplay).

 

[Barbarian]

Most of the best-selling RPGs have bad stories (and bad gameplay).

Yeah I find it funny that Torment is expounded as the best amongst many well written rpgs with memorable characters and deeper themes.

It is actually a very exceptional one-off and far outside the bounds of most other games.

 

[volklore]

Most of the best-selling RPGs have bad stories (and bad gameplay).

Yeah I find it funny that Torment is expounded as the best amongst many well written rpgs with memorable characters and deeper themes.

It is actually a very exceptional one-off and far outside the bounds of most other games.

Torment is unplayable.
It would be better as a point and click adventure game.

 

[Ol' Willy]

It is a better game than the original Black Isle/Bioware rtwp games for instance. By far. Better combat, better C&C and reactivity.

Not a high bar to clear

 

[Butter]

Yxunomei never tried to bum me.

 

[Barbarian]

It is a better game than the original Black Isle/Bioware rtwp games for instance. By far. Better combat, better C&C and reactivity.

Not a high bar to clear

Right... because there is such an infinitude of good D&D games around. Or good rpgs for that matter.

Not like BG1 and BG2 weren't the most popular games using the IP and not like they are part of every "best rpg ever" lists here in the codex and elsewhere.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Most of the best-selling RPGs have bad stories (and bad gameplay).

Yeah I find it funny that Torment is expounded as the best amongst many well written rpgs with memorable characters and deeper themes.

It is actually a very exceptional one-off and far outside the bounds of most other games.

Torment is unplayable.
It would be better as a point and click adventure game.

Not exactly

While combat in PST is outright horrendous, even worse than other RTwP offenders, the issue is made even worse by a number of trash mobs, including constantly respawning trash mobs

"just ignore combat bro" doesn't work since you would have to run away from trash mobs which is not fun (and loses you a lot of XP), and you also have 3 or 4 mandatory unskippable encounters

The best solution would be to limit the combat only to carefully designed encounters within the designed arena areas, and make all of them triggerable or outright skippable with skill/stat checks or requiring items/certain actions on demand, something like how it is done in AoD or Colony Ship

This would not only improve the general gameplay, but will also open the way for various runs, giving you the options to spec a full barbarian or non-combat max WIS/INT TNO with far more agency and gameplay difference

 

[mediocrepoet]

Yxunomei never tried to bum me.

Turn the difficulty up.

 

[Whipping Post]

I'm thinking BG1&2 actually have better combat than BG3. The itemization, classes, and encounter design are more balanced. I've played the original games back to back maybe a dozen times over the years, more often than not on solo runs, and every class I've attempted has been both viable and challenging.

They have simpler combat but it has more tactical depth since the resources available to the player are more limited and you have to use everything at your disposal to cheese tough fights, especially on solo runs, which makes every run unique and offers a lot of replayability. The battles also tend to be more difficult, memorable, and rewarding than BG3.

At a glance, BG3 seems to have amazing combat. The fact that it's turn-based is also a big plus. Unfortunately, it lacks the consistent fine-tuned quality of the originals.

The combat is generally very good in Act 1 but by Act 2 it devolves into tedious slogs, most battles you find yourself mindlessly spamming the same attacks or combination of attacks while having no problem progressing even on Tactical.

 

[The Nameless One]

Most of the best-selling RPGs have bad stories (and bad gameplay).

Yeah I find it funny that Torment is expounded as the best amongst many well written rpgs with memorable characters and deeper themes.

It is actually a very exceptional one-off and far outside the bounds of most other games.

Torment is unplayable.

Well, it really is an illiterate retard-proof game, so I see your point.

Most of the best-selling RPGs have bad stories (and bad gameplay).

Yeah I find it funny that Torment is expounded as the best amongst many well written rpgs with memorable characters and deeper themes.

It is actually a very exceptional one-off and far outside the bounds of most other games.

Torment is unplayable.
It would be better as a point and click adventure game.

Not exactly

While combat in PST is outright horrendous, even worse than other RTwP offenders, the issue is made even worse by a number of trash mobs, including constantly respawning trash mobs

"just ignore combat bro" doesn't work since you would have to run away from trash mobs which is not fun (and loses you a lot of XP), and you also have 3 or 4 mandatory unskippable encounters

The best solution would be to limit the combat only to carefully designed encounters within the designed arena areas, and make all of them triggerable or outright skippable with skill/stat checks or requiring items/certain actions on demand, something like how it is done in AoD or Colony Ship

This would not only improve the general gameplay, but will also open the way for various runs, giving you the options to spec a full barbarian or non-combat max WIS/INT TNO with far more agency and gameplay difference

Combat is easy as hell, with a few noticeable exceptions. Trash mobs are pretty much solo'd by Morte alone in a matter of seconds.
The only notable 'issue' with combat is its 'secret' being that the only truly viable class for TNO is the Mage and the party has to be worked over to accomodate for that choice, leaving some strong choices like Ignus in the background, if not outside the main party at all.
Also, very limited itemization that harms companions like Vhailor, who's got a shitty AC by late game and is only tough when pitted against him. This is again, a result of a rushed dev cycle, most likely toward the end. Yet with all its limitations, PS:T was made to be a different cRPG in every way, and it was, never meant to be another BG or IWD.

Do we really need to nitpick PS:T? Do we need 25 more years of criticizing its combat?
What can change the nature of a bait?

 

[Butter]

My first time playing PST was with a very poorly built Fighter TNO and I still managed to beat it.

 

[NJClaw]

Do we really need to nitpick PS:T? Do we need 25 more years of criticizing its combat?
What can change the nature of a bait?

Criticizing PS:T combat is important in this day and age because in this criticism resides the definitive and unequivocable proof that Disco Elysium is an RPG.

 

[The Nameless One]

My first time playing PST was with a very poorly built Fighter TNO and I still managed to beat it.

So was mine, but that's not the point bobby.

 

[Ol' Willy]

My first time playing PST was with a very poorly built Fighter TNO and I still managed to beat it.

So was mine, but that's not the point bobby.

The point is not that PST is difficult which it is not, the point is that combat in it is unpleasant and distracts from the main attraction

 

[The Nameless One]

My first time playing PST was with a very poorly built Fighter TNO and I still managed to beat it.

So was mine, but that's not the point bobby.

The point is not that PST is difficult which it is not, the point is that combat in it is unpleasant and distracts from the main attraction

Game wasn't geared toward combat, nor made to be pleasant. 'Tis tedious, but makes the dialogue/cutscene sections more pleasant. So no, both combat and its criticism are irrelevant as explained above.

 

[Whipping Post]

Nobody is going to argue that PST combat is good but I think it would've been a worse game if they cut it entirely. My most memorable PST moment was on a pacifist run where I had to figure out a way to get past those big armored dudes in Curst Prison so I herded them all into the cells and shut them in.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Yxunomei never tried to bum me.

And still a better fight than anything Larian has to offer