KickStarter BATTLETECH - turn-based mech combat from Harebrained Schemes

[Roguey]

Oh hey, back in March Kiva wrote another post-mortem update https://persenche.medium.com/the-design-philosophy-of-battletech-part-4-c85be3757775

So I care deeply about worlds, and when I came aboard the Battletech project, one of my central concerns was the setting. See, Battletech’s setting is everything that annoys me about rote sci-fi world building, all in one package: worlds that are not very alien, and people that talk and act like modern people, and places that are not very well-disguised copies of real world societies and cultures and governments.

And yet that's the game you made, one where people talk and act like contemporary tumblrkin.

I had a weird idea. I mean, I had Jordan there, and we were talking pretty frequently with Randall at Catalyst. What if we made a game that didn’t just respect canon, but somehow was compatible with canon? What if we made a game that could become canonical?

The rest of the setting discussion should be understood from this starting position: I wanted to create canonical Battletech material.

In the first essay I wrote in this series, I mentioned (to the alarm of the Battletech subreddit) that I wasn’t a fan of the Battletech IP. So why did I care about canonicity? It’s actually because I wasn’t a fan that I wanted to add to the canon. In a perverse way, I wanted the challenge of constructing something that satisfied my own sense of a believable, reasonable science fiction setting within this context that I considered inimical to reasonable sci-fi.

(The truth is that, aside from the logistical contradictions and the inherent ludonarrative dissonance created by the rarity and fragility of the mechs, the setting is not unreasonable. It makes some assumptions about human nature and human governance that I think are suspect, and it makes some other assumptions about technology and the rate of human progress that I think are absurd, but it has the kind of fractally complex texture I look for in fictional histories. Since I had to go from zero to expert in about three months, I can attest to the depth and intricacy of the setting as it has grown over decades of exploration and game publication.)

Another reminder that this is what Lyin' Kevin said back in 2016:

I’ve been a fan of BattleTech since 1987, when it competed for table time among my friends with Traveller and Gamma World. I’m a historian by education, and by far my favorite thing about BattleTech is the enormously detailed future history of the setting.

I sketched out an early history where, in the wake of the Capellan withdrawal from the region documented in multiple canonical sources, the people living on the star systems left abandoned were able to contact one another and put together a rudimentary coalition government, with each system acting as an independent princedom. Over time, this coalition became more formal, and the ‘princes’ of these systems, along with a collection of other notables, became the Electors that met in the Aurigan Diet to acclaim the High Lord or High Lady, said Lord or Lady being the executive and overall administrator of the Coalition. There’s more, and if you go pick up the official sourcebook you can read my whole rambling exploration of the history of the region.

(You might ask where all this information was in the actual game. That’s an excellent question!)

Someone's upset their lore building wasn't respected.

This is really the heart of what I wanted out of building the setting: a sense that what we’d created made sense, that the people and history felt like something you could read about and say ‘I could see a future like this one.’ A future where humans, far from their native lands, would slosh around their Catholicism and their Congregationalism and their Sunni Islam into a glorious syncretic mess, a jumble of religions and cultures and traditions. Where the protagonist was a Polynesian woman, and the antagonist was a Spanish man, and they were both hereditary aristocrats of a future nobility, and they struggled over control of a distant fictional Holy Roman Empire in the shadow of far greater powers.

muh multicult

I wanted Battletech fans to say both ‘this is definitely Battletech’ and also ‘this doesn’t entirely feel like Battletech.’ And I wanted people new to the setting to say ‘this is a universe I can believe in. This is a setting that could exist.’

I honestly can’t say if I succeeded. I just re-read the House Arano book, and much of it still strikes me as quite satisfying and well-composed. But is it Battletech? Does it feel like something that fits into the larger ecosystem, or does it feel like a strange outsider? As a strange outsider myself, it’s difficult for me to say.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[TheDiceMustRoll]

I couldn't care less, I'd rather he spent more time on making a game where I didn't have to deal with pointless and boring missions where the enemy always has reinforcements and enemies with zero sense of preservation. Why is a locust with zero pips walking straight up to the front of my Dragon to alpha strike, miss everything and then just eat a punch to the CT, dying instantly? Why has this happened, according to my notes, four times in 18 hours?

 

[Cael]

Oh hey, back in March Kiva wrote another post-mortem update https://persenche.medium.com/the-design-philosophy-of-battletech-part-4-c85be3757775

So I care deeply about worlds, and when I came aboard the Battletech project, one of my central concerns was the setting. See, Battletech’s setting is everything that annoys me about rote sci-fi world building, all in one package: worlds that are not very alien, and people that talk and act like modern people, and places that are not very well-disguised copies of real world societies and cultures and governments.

So I care deeply about worlds, and when I came aboard the Battletech project, one of my central concerns was the setting. See, Battletech’s setting is everything that annoys me about rote sci-fi world building, all in one package: worlds that are not very alien, and people that talk and act like modern people, and places that are not very well-disguised copies of real world societies and cultures and governments.

And yet that's the game you made, one where people talk and act like contemporary tumblrkin.

I had a weird idea. I mean, I had Jordan there, and we were talking pretty frequently with Randall at Catalyst. What if we made a game that didn’t just respect canon, but somehow was compatible with canon? What if we made a game that could become canonical?

The rest of the setting discussion should be understood from this starting position: I wanted to create canonical Battletech material.

In the first essay I wrote in this series, I mentioned (to the alarm of the Battletech subreddit) that I wasn’t a fan of the Battletech IP. So why did I care about canonicity? It’s actually because I wasn’t a fan that I wanted to add to the canon. In a perverse way, I wanted the challenge of constructing something that satisfied my own sense of a believable, reasonable science fiction setting within this context that I considered inimical to reasonable sci-fi.

(The truth is that, aside from the logistical contradictions and the inherent ludonarrative dissonance created by the rarity and fragility of the mechs, the setting is not unreasonable. It makes some assumptions about human nature and human governance that I think are suspect, and it makes some other assumptions about technology and the rate of human progress that I think are absurd, but it has the kind of fractally complex texture I look for in fictional histories. Since I had to go from zero to expert in about three months, I can attest to the depth and intricacy of the setting as it has grown over decades of exploration and game publication.)

Another reminder that this is what Lyin' Kevin said back in 2016:

I’ve been a fan of BattleTech since 1987, when it competed for table time among my friends with Traveller and Gamma World. I’m a historian by education, and by far my favorite thing about BattleTech is the enormously detailed future history of the setting.

I sketched out an early history where, in the wake of the Capellan withdrawal from the region documented in multiple canonical sources, the people living on the star systems left abandoned were able to contact one another and put together a rudimentary coalition government, with each system acting as an independent princedom. Over time, this coalition became more formal, and the ‘princes’ of these systems, along with a collection of other notables, became the Electors that met in the Aurigan Diet to acclaim the High Lord or High Lady, said Lord or Lady being the executive and overall administrator of the Coalition. There’s more, and if you go pick up the official sourcebook you can read my whole rambling exploration of the history of the region.

(You might ask where all this information was in the actual game. That’s an excellent question!)

Someone's upset their lore building wasn't respected.

This is really the heart of what I wanted out of building the setting: a sense that what we’d created made sense, that the people and history felt like something you could read about and say ‘I could see a future like this one.’ A future where humans, far from their native lands, would slosh around their Catholicism and their Congregationalism and their Sunni Islam into a glorious syncretic mess, a jumble of religions and cultures and traditions. Where the protagonist was a Polynesian woman, and the antagonist was a Spanish man, and they were both hereditary aristocrats of a future nobility, and they struggled over control of a distant fictional Holy Roman Empire in the shadow of far greater powers.

muh multicult

I wanted Battletech fans to say both ‘this is definitely Battletech’ and also ‘this doesn’t entirely feel like Battletech.’ And I wanted people new to the setting to say ‘this is a universe I can believe in. This is a setting that could exist.’

I honestly can’t say if I succeeded. I just re-read the House Arano book, and much of it still strikes me as quite satisfying and well-composed. But is it Battletech? Does it feel like something that fits into the larger ecosystem, or does it feel like a strange outsider? As a strange outsider myself, it’s difficult for me to say.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So, he is a lying, sociopathic, hypocritical troll. Meh. Just another leftard cunt, in other words.

 

[Cael]

I couldn't care less, I'd rather he spent more time on making a game where I didn't have to deal with pointless and boring missions where the enemy always has reinforcements and enemies with zero sense of preservation. Why is a locust with zero pips walking straight up to the front of my Dragon to alpha strike, miss everything and then just eat a punch to the CT, dying instantly? Why has this happened, according to my notes, four times in 18 hours?

I had a Locust run up to my Anni to shoot at it with a medium laser. The return salvo of 2x SPPC++ (25x5 damage each) and 5x LB2-X+++ (8x12 damage each) literally DISINTEGRATED the Locust. There was literally nothing left. Every body part was destroyed.

Leeroy Jenkins is literally the only tactic the incompetent rotting cunts at HBS knows.

 

[Jason Liang]

I couldn't care less, I'd rather he spent more time on making a game where I didn't have to deal with pointless and boring missions where the enemy always has reinforcements and enemies with zero sense of preservation. Why is a locust with zero pips walking straight up to the front of my Dragon to alpha strike, miss everything and then just eat a punch to the CT, dying instantly? Why has this happened, according to my notes, four times in 18 hours?

I had a Locust run up to my Anni to shoot at it with a medium laser. The return salvo of 2x SPPC++ (25x5 damage each) and 5x LB2-X+++ (8x12 damage each) literally DISINTEGRATED the Locust. There was literally nothing left. Every body part was destroyed.

Leeroy Jenkins is literally the only tactic the incompetent rotting cunts at HBS knows.

... not that the AI is actually good, but clearly the Battletech AI knows how to use a spotter and destroy your mechs with a LRM lance as well.

 

[lightbane]

one where people talk and act like contemporary tumblrkin.

Don't forget the pronouns! That I doubt they're even used, as the game refers to the player in second person and uses first person camera so that your chosen model needs not to be animated. Speaking of, female character was also the predetermined choice before you made any change... If you could consider these as women, as mostly were ugly as sin by design. Don't forget the lack of blonde hair for reasons.

Someone's upset their lore building wasn't respected.

It would help if the characters didn't have a paper-thin personality and ass-pulls of unique super-tech that breaks the setting over the knee.

I couldn't care less, I'd rather he spent more time on making a game where I didn't have to deal with pointless and boring missions where the enemy always has reinforcements and enemies with zero sense of preservation. Why is a locust with zero pips walking straight up to the front of my Dragon to alpha strike, miss everything and then just eat a punch to the CT, dying instantly? Why has this happened, according to my notes, four times in 18 hours?

To waste your time, duh. Between micro-stutters, animations that cannot be bypassed, and no combat log (thus making you squint to read the scrolling messages to see what kind of damage you caused/suffered), combat artificially lengthens the game.

 

[Cael]

one where people talk and act like contemporary tumblrkin.

Don't forget the pronouns! That I doubt they're even used, as the game refers to the player in second person and uses first person camera so that your chosen model needs not to be animated.

Pronouns are used. Just read the pilot bios. There is at least a few of them using the "they/them" pronoun.

 

[lightbane]

one where people talk and act like contemporary tumblrkin.

Don't forget the pronouns! That I doubt they're even used, as the game refers to the player in second person and uses first person camera so that your chosen model needs not to be animated.

Pronouns are used. Just read the pilot bios. There is at least a few of them using the "they/them" pronoun.

I was talking about your MC, when you're not being a shadow to not-Princess Danerys cheap clone. If other NPCs use it, whatever.
You'll likely hire the least ugly and most competent of the lot.
Speaking of: Trannies don't make sense in BTech, especially in the eras with more tech, as by then you have genetic engineering and cloning. Which means that conversions from male to female and viceversa, and/or skin color changing are doable.
But that would make trannies less special so it is not considered relevant, I guess.

 

[Cael]

one where people talk and act like contemporary tumblrkin.

Don't forget the pronouns! That I doubt they're even used, as the game refers to the player in second person and uses first person camera so that your chosen model needs not to be animated.

Pronouns are used. Just read the pilot bios. There is at least a few of them using the "they/them" pronoun.

I was talking about your MC, when you're not being a shadow to not-Princess Danerys cheap clone. If other NPCs use it, whatever.
You'll likely hire the least ugly and most competent of the lot.
Speaking of: Trannies don't make sense in BTech, especially in the eras with more tech, as by then you have genetic engineering and cloning. Which means that conversions from male to female and viceversa, and/or skin color changing are doable.
But that would make trannies less special so it is not considered relevant, I guess.

It is also a setting that had reactionaries so powerful that they toppled the ruling Kuritas from the Combine and blew up the FedCom. Trannies would have been executed without the slightest qualm if they get even the slightest bit uppity.

Kevin outright said that the pronoun thing for your protag was deliberately designed to piss off certain segments of society.

The ugly ass random generated portraits is why I run exclusively with KS backers and ronin characters.

 

[lightbane]

It is also a setting that had reactionaries so powerful that they toppled the ruling Kuritas from the Combine and blew up the FedCom. Trannies would have been executed without the slightest qualm if they get even the slightest bit uppity.

Oh right, that too. Trannies would likely be executed by default by not conforming to the norm in some cases anyway.

Kevin outright said that the pronoun thing for your protag was deliberately designed to piss off certain segments of society.

I think it said that in some interview IIRC. Very progressive.

The ugly ass random generated portraits is why I run exclusively with KS backers and ronin characters.

Aren't KS Backers' pics also hideous, like your starting squad? Funnily enough that tends to be a thing in most games due the kind of people KS attracts. Only a few HK could get away with it since everyone are bugs, and most KB backers' retardation is optional and hidden. The Procession to Cavalry also played around with that.
Either way, thankfully Btech mods include plenty of pics.

 

[Cael]

It is also a setting that had reactionaries so powerful that they toppled the ruling Kuritas from the Combine and blew up the FedCom. Trannies would have been executed without the slightest qualm if they get even the slightest bit uppity.

Oh right, that too. Trannies would likely be executed by default by not conforming to the norm in some cases anyway.

Kevin outright said that the pronoun thing for your protag was deliberately designed to piss off certain segments of society.

I think it said that in some interview IIRC. Very progressive.

The ugly ass random generated portraits is why I run exclusively with KS backers and ronin characters.

Aren't KS Backers' pics also hideous, like your starting squad? Funnily enough that tends to be a thing in most games due the kind of people KS attracts. Only a few HK could get away with it since everyone are bugs, and most KB backers' retardation is optional and hidden. The Procession to Cavalry also played around with that.
Either way, thankfully Btech mods include plenty of pics.

The starting squad are ronins, not KS backers. They also seem to be exceptions. The other ronins are far better.


Also, can you imagine trannies in CapCon?

 

[CancerUnlimited]

Aren't KS Backers' pics also hideous, like your starting squad? Funnily enough that tends to be a thing in most games due the kind of people KS attracts.

Just replace the portraits:
https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/638

Also:
https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/632

 

[Cael]

Aren't KS Backers' pics also hideous, like your starting squad? Funnily enough that tends to be a thing in most games due the kind of people KS attracts.

Just replace the portraits:
https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/638

Also:
https://www.nexusmods.com/battletech/mods/632

I was playing it unmodded. I was afraid it would turn my computer into a heap of slag from the psycho over-run issues.

 

[CancerUnlimited]

I was playing it unmodded. I was afraid it would turn my computer into a heap of slag from the psycho over-run issues.

You don't need mods. Just rename the portraits and replace the ones in \BattleTech_Data\StreamingAssets\sprites\Portraits.

Or just install Commander Portrait Loader wich it's lightweight and compatible with everything. That way you can select your char portrait instead of being just a default tranny.

As an overhaul I use and recommend XAI Battletech 3025, i'ts a lot harder than vanilla and with better gear, and without the bloat and slowdown of Roguetech or BT3025. It also let you play the main campaign.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Okay, I'm ready to revise my opinion on this, slightly:

With Battletech Advanced 3062 this is a legitimately good Battletech experience.

Tons of mechs, tons of vehicles, tons of weapons, full map, Clans, ComGuard, WoB, strategic conflicts -> megatons of content.

The skeleton of the mod, however, revolves around its reimagined combat model. So, in essence, to-hit chances have been radically revised (along with character perks), making positioning, sensor locks and - most of all - a variety of mechs absolutely key. Whereas vanilla wants you to use four Atlases as soon as humanly possible, BTA3062 will punish you for ignoring initiative and the to-hit differential between different weight categories. The latter basically makes it so that assault mechs are going to have a shitty, shitty time hitting light mechs, whereas the reverse is remarkably easy. The start of the career feels pretty brutal, with basic exchanges happening at 15-20% to-hit. This does get better reasonably quickly, but the first 5-10 missions can be pretty fraught. You really need to take advantage of evasion (the pips aren't peeled away by fire, so light/mobile mechs have a huge advantage in this regard) to ensure survival and victory. You've also got to be selective about what kind of contracts you take. Mountainous terrain, for example, is brutal if you're the attacking force.

Vehicles are also much deadlier. Just took out a Demolisher, for example, that could withstand multiple full mech salvos and toted a pair of AC20s.

Finally, the previous frustratingly excruciating load times and jankiness are somewhat less intrusive with this mod (I have no idea why). That, despite the fact you can now take eight mechs and up to three (or four, can't remember) vehicles into combat.

I'm finally having sustained fun with Battletech.

 

[Cael]

Okay, I'm ready to revise my opinion on this, slightly:

With Battletech Advanced 3062 this is a legitimately good Battletech experience.

Tons of mechs, tons of vehicles, tons of weapons, full map, Clans, ComGuard, WoB, strategic conflicts -> megatons of content.

The skeleton of the mod, however, revolves around its reimagined combat model. So, in essence, to-hit chances have been radically revised (along with character perks), making positioning, sensor locks and - most of all - a variety of mechs absolutely key. Whereas vanilla wants you to use four Atlases as soon as humanly possible, BTA3062 will punish you for ignoring initiative and the to-hit differential between different weight categories. The latter basically makes it so that assault mechs are going to have a shitty, shitty time hitting light mechs, whereas the reverse is remarkably easy. The start of the career feels pretty brutal, with basic exchanges happening at 15-20% to-hit. This does get better reasonably quickly, but the first 5-10 missions can be pretty fraught. You really need to take advantage of evasion (the pips aren't peeled away by fire, so light/mobile mechs have a huge advantage in this regard) to ensure survival and victory. You've also got to be selective about what kind of contracts you take. Mountainous terrain, for example, is brutal if you're the attacking force.

Vehicles are also much deadlier. Just took out a Demolisher, for example, that could withstand multiple full mech salvos and toted a pair of AC20s.

Finally, the previous frustratingly excruciating load times and jankiness are somewhat less intrusive with this mod (I have no idea why). That, despite the fact you can now take eight mechs and up to three (or four, can't remember) vehicles into combat.

I'm finally having sustained fun with Battletech.

If you have a big map, AC20 is a joke. One of the main problems with the HBS game is that you are in a cramped map 50% of the time, and a small map another 40% of the time.

Not losing evasion pips is EXACTLY how the tabletop game works. BA3062 brought the game there is was supposed to be, where it was PROMISED to be.

 

[underground nymph]

Okay, I'm ready to revise my opinion on this, slightly:

With Battletech Advanced 3062 this is a legitimately good Battletech experience.

Tons of mechs, tons of vehicles, tons of weapons, full map, Clans, ComGuard, WoB, strategic conflicts -> megatons of content.

The skeleton of the mod, however, revolves around its reimagined combat model. So, in essence, to-hit chances have been radically revised (along with character perks), making positioning, sensor locks and - most of all - a variety of mechs absolutely key. Whereas vanilla wants you to use four Atlases as soon as humanly possible, BTA3062 will punish you for ignoring initiative and the to-hit differential between different weight categories. The latter basically makes it so that assault mechs are going to have a shitty, shitty time hitting light mechs, whereas the reverse is remarkably easy. The start of the career feels pretty brutal, with basic exchanges happening at 15-20% to-hit. This does get better reasonably quickly, but the first 5-10 missions can be pretty fraught. You really need to take advantage of evasion (the pips aren't peeled away by fire, so light/mobile mechs have a huge advantage in this regard) to ensure survival and victory. You've also got to be selective about what kind of contracts you take. Mountainous terrain, for example, is brutal if you're the attacking force.

Vehicles are also much deadlier. Just took out a Demolisher, for example, that could withstand multiple full mech salvos and toted a pair of AC20s.

Finally, the previous frustratingly excruciating load times and jankiness are somewhat less intrusive with this mod (I have no idea why). That, despite the fact you can now take eight mechs and up to three (or four, can't remember) vehicles into combat.

I'm finally having sustained fun with Battletech.

Is the Community Update something one needs to fully enjoy this mod?

 

[Lone Wolf]

The launcher downloads the Community Assets stuff automatically.

All you need is the launcher, it's very, very easy to install. It even includes an inbuilt updater.

 

[underground nymph]

Yeah, did that already, though I’ve unchecked the Community Assets option fearing it is full of cringe amateurs-made mechs made of whacky polygons, hence the question.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I think the mechs look great, but check out some screenshots.

 

[Cael]

Yeah, did that already, though I’ve unchecked the Community Assets option fearing it is full of cringe amateurs-made mechs made of whacky polygons, hence the question.

I would love to have cringey "amateur" 'mechs that do away with hardpoints... like, you know, the real game.

 

[underground nymph]

I don’t know, I like all the changes in the gameplay as well as more options for mech’s customization, but the visual additions are atrocious. Mechs made of several cubes, mechs made of several spheres, some retarded portraits each with a different art style, vehicles that clip with the surface, level progression for pilots that make little sense to me. Sigh. Is there any mod that makes the gameplay better without adding cringe stuff?

 

[lightbane]

Are you talking about the base game, or the 2060-something mod? Because the OG game's mechs looked terrible by default, with color options that barely changed how they looked.

 

[underground nymph]

I am talking about the Advanced 3062 mod. Original models are ok imo.

 

[Suicidal]

This game have been collecting dust in my library for so long and I'm planning on starting a playthrough soon. Should I bother at all with the original or just go with one of the big overhaul mods straight away? If so, which one would you guys recommend? I'm leaning towards Advanced 3062. Also do you use any additional mods together with the overhaul?