Decline Bethesda Appreciation Thread

[DalekFlay]

Bethesda only makes modding frameworks now. Their "games" are devoid of anything that remotely resembles a game per se.

The vast majority of their audience use zero mods whatsoever.

 

[Flacracker]

I think if there is one thing people can agree on about Oblivion is that the music is pretty damn good. For me, great and appropriate/fitting music can make anything better than it actually is. In 2006 the graphics were pretty damn good. Rolling around in the nice green forest with that music fighting some shit was a great time. A lot of things about the game are pretty shit though. It is a terrible RPG but I always thought the combat was good.

 

[Lorica]

I guess so. There is nothing else quite like TES. And they are moddable. Chances are if there's something you didn't like, you'll find a mod to fix it.

I don't like the level scaling, the static world, the annoying dialog minigame, the terrible system of catching the player committing crimes, the banal, boring story, the lack of urgency of a freaking demon invasion, the lack of interesting NPCs, the boring character system, and the lack of consequences to any choice made. Is there a mod that fixes this?

So which game according to you has no level scaling, dynamic world, good crime system, great story, urgency, interesting NPCs, interesting character system, consequences to your choices?

Because these don't bother me in Oblivion, but if there is a game which does it better i'd like to give it a go.

Jagged Alliance 2, mostly.

Wish there were a cRPG that fit all those criteria, but I'm drawing a blank.

I think in your post you're ignoring that Oblivion attempts those things (other than the lack of level-scaling) or at least includes them (the crime system, rudimentary reactive world), but falls short on all of them (understanding that most of these criteria are subjective). I can respect liking a game for all the stuff it tries to offer. But for me, so many poorly done elements are just frustrating, especially when I can't point to a single thing that the game nailed.

Alpha Protocol had TPS combat, linear levels, and really terrible stealth implementation, but it handles conversation well and does interesting things with the character system and over-arching C&C.
Red Dead Redemption had far too much busy work, try-hard NPC writing, weird tone shifts due to Rockstar open world design, but its story is pretty good and the basic movement and combat were well executed.
Darklands had annoying dungeon navigation, RTwP combat, and repetitive quests (evidently 35% of Medieval Germany were robber knights), but it's still a high water mark of open world cRPGs and interesting character creation system to me.
Within TES series, Morrowind had poor combat, but the world building was nice (and, as a consequence, poking around that world was fun) and the magic system an unexpected joy.

I can't think of anything that carries Oblivion--everywhere I turn, I see a disappointment. Maybe you're correct and a mod could improve some aspect of this game enough that it'd be worth playing the mod. According to many on these boards, F:NV did that to F3 and MotB did that to NWN2. Unfortunately, I dislike the vanilla versions of both so much that I've never played through either and I doubt I'd play through an Oblivion mod.

You say that there's nothing quite like TES. That does depend on what you consider its definitive aspects. But the games most similar to Oblivion are the other TES games and I think Morrowind and Daggerfall managed to do everything Oblivion did at least as well and often better.

That said, +1 for the Gothic series. I don't know that you'll ever be able to go back to Oblivion after G2. Also, have you ever played Stalker?

 

[Gurkog]

Oblivion was so successful because its open world screamed endless possibilities... until you play for a while and realize that everything is shit. I bet most of the players barely go anywhere or do anything, but see the pretty colors and are satisfied.

 

[Turjan]

(evidently 35% of Medieval Germany were robber knights)

... sounds about right .

Oblivion was so successful because its open world screamed endless possibilities... until you play for a while and realize that everything is shit. I bet most of the players barely go anywhere or do anything, but see the pretty colors and are satisfied.

I know that most of my acquaintances that loved Oblivion did something like come home from work, have dinner, bring children to bed, raid one Oblivion dungeon, go to bed...

They simply didn't care for world coherence, as they experienced it piecemeal.

 

[chestburster]

So which game according to you has no level scaling, dynamic world, good crime system, great story, urgency, interesting NPCs, interesting character system, consequences to your choices?

STALKER.

No level scaling. World is COMPLETELy dynamic. Good crime system that links to great faction system. Great story and interesting NPCs (depending on your tolerance for Russian gibberish). Interesting character system (as interesting as real life). Consequences to your choice.

And it's "open world" (whatever this hype word means). The maps are gigantic anyway, no less smaller than Fallout 3 if you exclude the recycled stuff from Fallout 3.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

I think if there is one thing people can agree on about Oblivion is that the music is pretty damn good. For me, great and appropriate/fitting music can make anything better than it actually is. In 2006 the graphics were pretty damn good. Rolling around in the nice green forest with that music fighting some shit was a great time. A lot of things about the game are pretty shit though. It is a terrible RPG but I always thought the combat was good.

no. soule's music is bland, banal and dull.
the morrowind main theme is something akin to a miracle, sometimes even the worst composers come out with something worth of note. like pachelbel's canon.

 

[kris]

Exploration is the one and only thing they do well. If a hiking simulator is something that is appealing to you, then you can have fun with their games, even if you recognise that they are objectivly bad.
But if hiking isn't your thing, their games have nothing else to offer.

I know "hiking simulator" is just an expression, but someone that likes hiking ain't going to be impressed by any of these games. As you don't actually hike and a computer cant simulate anything close to as impressive as what you can see when actually hiking. but if you hate... moving and want to see the vistas of someones imagination then they deliver something. As for that aspect I would say Oblivion failed, while Skyrim did a decent job.

 

[Rake]

Bethesda only makes modding frameworks now. Their "games" are devoid of anything that remotely resembles a game per se.

The vast majority of their audience are braindead though

 

[adddeed]

I guess so. There is nothing else quite like TES. And they are moddable. Chances are if there's something you didn't like, you'll find a mod to fix it.

I don't like the level scaling, the static world, the annoying dialog minigame, the terrible system of catching the player committing crimes, the banal, boring story, the lack of urgency of a freaking demon invasion, the lack of interesting NPCs, the boring character system, and the lack of consequences to any choice made. Is there a mod that fixes this?

So which game according to you has no level scaling, dynamic world, good crime system, great story, urgency, interesting NPCs, interesting character system, consequences to your choices?

Because these don't bother me in Oblivion, but if there is a game which does it better i'd like to give it a go.

I can't think of anything that carries Oblivion--everywhere I turn, I see a disappointment.

That said, +1 for the Gothic series. I don't know that you'll ever be able to go back to Oblivion after G2. Also, have you ever played Stalker?

I don't know but maybe some of you are taking this series way too seriously and having way too high expectations. It's not a perfect game, but it's fun. It's big, its got tons of content, and it's fun to just run around and do quests and fight monsters.

I thought Skyrim was an action advneture with RPG elements. And i loved it. In fact i never deleted it from my computer, i will go back to it in the near future. I couldn't care less about the story, or the characters, or the static world or whatever. I know i had fun playing it. I just don't like nitpicking. It's a frikkin game, it will be never as complex as some of you desire.

 

[Tigranes]

Except there are other games which are, by and large, 'as complex as some of you desire'. It's a frikkin game... except there are other frikkin games which do it better. If someone was paying $4 for a hand-crafted organic ingredients burger and you were paying $5 for a big mac would you say don't take it so seriously, it's just a frikkin burger?

 

[Dreaad]

^ This. Also the resources in terms of money and programmers being drained out so that this shit can be created. By accepting sub par products you invite publishers to fuck you over again and again.

 

[Lorica]

I don't know but maybe some of you are taking this series way too seriously and having way too high expectations. It's not a perfect game, but it's fun. It's big, its got tons of content, and it's fun to just run around and do quests and fight monsters.

I thought Skyrim was an action advneture with RPG elements. And i loved it. In fact i never deleted it from my computer, i will go back to it in the near future. I couldn't care less about the story, or the characters, or the static world or whatever. I know i had fun playing it. I just don't like nitpicking. It's a frikkin game, it will be never as complex as some of you desire.

Sorry if that sounded too much like "you shouldn't enjoy these games!"

Let me put it this way:

If you have fun with Oblivion, then I envy you, because it seems like you still have a world of better-crafted and as-of-yet unexperienced games before you. I encourage you to go forth and enjoy.

 

[Zewp]

I don't know but maybe some of you are taking this series way too seriously and having way too high expectations. It's not a perfect game, but it's fun. It's big, its got tons of content, and it's fun to just run around and do quests and fight monsters.

I thought Skyrim was an action advneture with RPG elements. And i loved it. In fact i never deleted it from my computer, i will go back to it in the near future. I couldn't care less about the story, or the characters, or the static world or whatever. I know i had fun playing it. I just don't like nitpicking. It's a frikkin game, it will be never as complex as some of you desire.

Get the hell outta here, you bloody agent of the decline!

 

[RK47]

^ This. Also the resources in terms of money and programmers being drained out so that this shit can be created. By accepting sub par products you invite publishers to fuck you over again and again.

^_^ Do you like strong minded women?

Fallout 3 is like Goku watching Freeza kill Krillin

 

[7/10]

Maybe people should finally accept the fact, that 100+ million AAA releases will never be tailored to the tastes of a bunch of jaded nerds, on some godforsaken message board, because such a small target audience does not warrant such a large budget.

 

[Hornawkawk]

Maybe people should finally accept the fact, that 100+ million AAA releases will never be tailored to the tastes of a bunch of jaded nerds, on some godforsaken message board, because such a small target audience does not warrant such a large budget.

Back in the day trolling meant something.

 

[Necroscope]

Bethesda really makes people rage because you see that their games have great exploration/hiking potential but I don't know the reason they don't fix things like writing, itemization, level scaling and etc. I know they have to please the popamole crowd, I don't expect a Daggerfall from them anymore but for every decision they make , you see that there was a more intelligent alternative of pleasing the popamoles without entirely ruining the game.

Exactly this. When you play an outright shit game you just think "oh well it's shit, time to uninstall it", but when playing a Bethesda game you can't help but torture your mind with questions of "why did they fucked it up so much!?" nature. Take FO3 for example; it's a shooter game with the gun mechanics barely even implemented - how fucking ridiculous is that!? I can't play their games without getting constantly annoyed at how lazy, sloppy or simply "we didn't give enough of a fuck" the design decisions are.

 

[DalekFlay]

Maybe people should finally accept the fact, that 100+ million AAA releases will never be tailored to the tastes of a bunch of jaded nerds, on some godforsaken message board, because such a small target audience does not warrant such a large budget.

We realize that, we're just still allowed to bitch about it, thanks.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

7/10, more like

 

[adddeed]

I don't know but maybe some of you are taking this series way too seriously and having way too high expectations. It's not a perfect game, but it's fun. It's big, its got tons of content, and it's fun to just run around and do quests and fight monsters.

I thought Skyrim was an action advneture with RPG elements. And i loved it. In fact i never deleted it from my computer, i will go back to it in the near future. I couldn't care less about the story, or the characters, or the static world or whatever. I know i had fun playing it. I just don't like nitpicking. It's a frikkin game, it will be never as complex as some of you desire.

Sorry if that sounded too much like "you shouldn't enjoy these games!"

Let me put it this way:

If you have fun with Oblivion, then I envy you, because it seems like you still have a world of better-crafted and as-of-yet unexperienced games before you. I encourage you to go forth and enjoy.

I've played all the infinity engine classics, ive played Fallout 1 and 2, i finished Arcanum last year, i finished System Shock 1 a year before, i have Ultima 7 installed, and i played Jagged Alliance 2. I still love Oblivion. It's a great game.

 

[Necroscope]

I've played all the infinity engine classics, ive played Fallout 1 and 2, i finished Arcanum last year, i finished System Shock 1 a year before, i have Ultima 7 installed, and i played Jagged Alliance 2. I still love Oblivion. It's a great game.

You're a great faggot. I bet you haven't even seen screenshots of some of these games.

 

[Hornawkawk]

I've played all the infinity engine classics, ive played Fallout 1 and 2, i finished Arcanum last year, i finished System Shock 1 a year before, i have Ultima 7 installed, and i played Jagged Alliance 2. I still love Oblivion. It's a great game.

You're a great faggot. I bet you haven't even seen screenshots of some of these games.

I didn't find Oblivion as bad as some people here, just extremely boring. I really could use that game as a sleeping pill.

 

[Rake]

So which game according to you has no level scaling, dynamic world, good crime system, great story, urgency, interesting NPCs, interesting character system, consequences to your choices?
Because these don't bother me in Oblivion, but if there is a game which does it better i'd like to give it a go.

I've played all the infinity engine classics, ive played Fallout 1 and 2, i finished Arcanum last year, i finished System Shock 1 a year before, i have Ultima 7 installed, and i played Jagged Alliance 2. I still love Oblivion. It's a great game.

Yeah, sure...

 

[adddeed]

I've played all the infinity engine classics, ive played Fallout 1 and 2, i finished Arcanum last year, i finished System Shock 1 a year before, i have Ultima 7 installed, and i played Jagged Alliance 2. I still love Oblivion. It's a great game.

You're a great faggot. I bet you haven't even seen screenshots of some of these games.

Still got my Planescape Torment big box 4cd version i bought in 1999. You mad?